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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:36 am 
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Hi, I'm new here but I need,immediate help from someone with knowledge or experience with this issue. I was prescribe suboxone films 6 mths ago for pain management. I have no history of opiate use or abuse. I felt it helped my pain greatly and had no problems or noticeable side effects 2 weeks ago my insurance just started denying to pay for it anymore with no warning. I had to stop cold,turkey while my dr. Tried to appeal. It was terrible. My pain was so intensified that I could hardly take it. Finally today he wrote me a script for subutex tabs under tongue in same 2mg QID. THE FIRST dose was fine the second dose gave me extreme nausea immediately and 30 mins later extreme vomitting. The third does immediately after dissolving I had extreme projectile vomitting and then extreme nausea which is,still lingering almost for an hour now. Needless to say I won't be,taking the 4th dose anytime soon. Can someone tell me why this,is,happening? But most importantly how I can stop it from happening. I need it terribly for pain management and I can't afford the suboxone films or tabs. Please help I am losing hope of ever being able to get this pain back under control. Anyone please please HELP


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 5:35 am 
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Hello

Very sorry you're having trouble. I'm not a doctor but 2 mg 4 times a day seems like a huge dose for someone who was recently opiate naive. Did you start out with that same 2 mg dose? Or work up to it?
How long were you without the med? 2 weeks? Long enough for you tolerance to fall off?

It sounds like you're taking too much. But as I said i'm not a doctor. Usually opiate naive people who begin using bupe for pain are on very small, micro doses. Or at least that's my very possibly flawed understanding..


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:35 am 
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Very sorry you ve become ill. I agree , you most like are getting to much med. While both products are almost the same,it is the bupe in botb subutex and suboxone that are active.

How loug between you were cutoff until you began the subutex? ..

You will be fine as time goes by. After you are feeling better,take it very slowly to build up some tolerance.

Good luck.

Razor


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:44 am 
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U are absolutely taking too much! If u have no opiate tolerance, or stopped and brought ur tolerance to pretty much nothing, ur on to high of a dose. I cannot believe ur doctor doesn't know this.

There was this time I was told about someone trying a suboxone strip, someone who had no opiate tolerance whatsoever. I think they took about 4mg, and they vomited all day long...... horrible awful vomiting. They were sick for the next 3 days after that with nausea. This was because they had very little tolerance and took to much.

Buprenorphine is for ppl with a pretty serious addiction to opiates. Most of the time, opiate tolerance isn't usually an issue because our bodies are screaming for more or in withdrawal during the induction process. I couldn't imagine taking this medication with no to little tolerance.

If 2mg didn't make u sick, then stop at that or try splitting up ur dose several times a day since ur taking it for pain. Do u only take buprenorphine for pain? Do u not take it for addiction issues also?

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:16 am 
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Hey razor and Jenn,

Good to get that support. I'm always nervous about chiming in on technical issues, but this one seems pretty obvious. I'm wondering why the doctor prescribed so much? Even 2 mg's once a day seems pretty massive for someone opiate naive. Wouldn't the better approach be to slowly work your way up from a fractional dose, stopping at the point where the pain is substantially relieved?

Maybe the doc did that, and it took this much, and with the layoff the poster's tolerance has dropped?
That's the other issue. Why wasn't it causing nausea and vomiting before?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:49 am 
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I'm not really sure why it wasn't making him/her sick before...... were u taking as much before? If u were then ur tolerance has probably dropped. If u weren't taking that much before, then u took to much for ur tolerance.

That's my opinion. I'm no doctor either :)
But I have saw ppl take to much of an opiate and vomiting or nausea is the main symptom. I remember that from myself bk in active addiction. And that's what this sounds like to me to Godfrey.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:44 am 
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Of God yes..I remember puking til some cold green stuff came up. Green anyway. Can't swear to the cold. I thought I was having a good time,,, :(


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:56 am 
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I was going to respond but Sweet was here 24 minutes and hasn't been back to see the replies already posted.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:05 am 
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I was going to respond but Sweet was here 24 minutes and hasn't been back to see the replies already posted


just in case you don't know this, the two docs posts are highly prized for their educational value whether op here or not...though of course we also realize you guys are busy!


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:01 am 
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I sometimes try to come up with scenarios that might explain why people who are treated in a friendly, helpful way just disappear without a word. Sweet, if you come back, forgive my speculation. I do hope you'll come back because we all care about what happens to you.

So here's my guess, sweet read a couple of our responses and got really angry with her/his doctor who seems to have made a rather inexplicable dosing error. I would have had the same reaction. The next move was for OP to call the doctor in question. That probably would have been an interesting call. :x The forum at that point was likely the least of OP"s worries.

Still, if thats the case...or whatever the case...would be nice to hear back one time.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:58 am 
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I have always understood how someone could be in a panic or worry over something and they google their issue. The google results will bring up this forum and that's when they post their question. During the meantime waiting for a response, they either work it out or move along to another way of finding out their answer, so they don't really think to come bk unless they get an email advising them that they have a response to their questions. Some come bk and some do not.

I actually found this forum googling something about buprenorphine. I loved this place so much and was so passionate about suboxone that I kept coming bk. Not everyone is necessarily interested in being a regular poster or don't really have the extra time to keep coming bk. That's always been my thoughts on ppl that post once or twice and u never hear from them again. Don't get me wrong, I dislike it when someone does that because we've gave our precious time to answer and help them.

Of course there's ppl that get upset about something that was said and they get angry, that's different than what I'm saying about this particular poster. The ppl that post and don't come bk are usually just needing a quick answer and kinda post on the run..... does that make sense? It's hard for me to explain lol.

I think it's unfair though, to not return after we've took the time and effort to respond and help support this person and they just disappear. It's unfair but I don't take it personally and it has happened a lot over the years I've been here. They post and u never hear bk. I've never checked to see if they've logged bk in though, I keep forgetting about that :)

That's always just been the way I look at one time posters. I could absolutely be completely wrong Godfrey :)

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:59 am 
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I think it's unfair though, to not return after we've took the time and effort to respond and help support this person and they just disappear.


You make excellent point Jenn as always. And I agree that it's impolite, though perhaps not intentionally
so. As you say, just so easy to forget. Plus people generally use aliases, so there's even less a feeling
of obligation.

By the way, I found the forum in just the same way. For some reason I resisted joining for a very long time though, or even reading anything here. I'm not sure why. I suppose because it would mean publicly copping to my addiction, even if only anonymously. I just resisted doing it. It's too bad because i'm sure I'd have switched to bupe at least a year earlier. Man, it makes me sick to think about the money I've spent. It literally keeps me up at night sometimes...


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:21 am 
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Oh yeah, I don't think it's intentional either Godfrey. I agree.

It's funny because I'd never really posted on a forum before this one, never really been on one before either. During my time right out of rehab, I was on a NA chat room that had meetings twice a day. That's the extent of my online social activity besides Facebook and Twitter. So coming here, it took awhile to post and come out of my shell. I didn't know anything about forums.

I try not to think about the $ wasted on pills Godfrey, it'll just upset u and u can't do anything about it. It'll take ur guilt into overload. But I think it's a lot more intense during the beginning of ur recovery. U think of all the things u did and how u could never see urself doing those things now. And I had a hard time dealing with it thinking about losing my home and my car plus I even feel guilty about Christmas and birthdays of my children's. All the $ I could have put towards them and I just wasted it to make my life a living hell. Yeah it's tough to think about that. But it will get easier, I promise u that :)

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:52 am 
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I know you're right Jennifer, and I appreciate it very much :D


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:11 pm 
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This is the way I look at it. What is the definition of insanity?

Doing the same thing over again and expecting a different outcome.

In other words, spending a bunch of time answering a thread is our prerogative. However, spending a bunch of time answering a thread, expecting the poster to come back, and getting bent out of shape because they didn't, does not make sense.

So, either we need to make like docm2 and wait and see if they come back before investing time, or make like Jenn and Godfrey who don't have high expectations that the OP will come back. It certainly wouldn't make sense to invest time and/or emotion on it. :)

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:31 am 
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Thank you for stating the obvious Amy. At least I will no longer post about the OP's profile showing only a 2 minute visit on their first day, never to be seen again.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:15 pm 
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Hi Amy,

Well some friendly disagreement here.

I think it's fair to say that just about everyone on the forum who posts frequently, sincerely try to help people with their problems, and no thanks are required.

And I don't really recall people on the forum being truly upset the way you describe, at least as a regular thing, or even semi-frequently. I'm sure it must happen, but I'd say it's the exception.

Jenn observed that it's impolite not to respond, and of course she's right. She was also at pains to explain that none of this upsets her.

I see that definition of insanity quite a bit. It's especially popular in 12 Step groups. I'd say it describes self defeating behavior very well, if not exactly insanity. But again, I don't think there's anything much on the forum that word would accurately describe when it comes to regular posters reacting to "hit and runs."

Hope you don't mind the minor pushback. I read your response a couple of times and you seem to be sincerely bothered by this. I'm just taking the position..until convinced otherwise, and I remain ever open-minded, that there's really not much of an issue here.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:28 pm 
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I'm not bothered by it at all, actually. I regularly make big long posts in reaction to a person who puts minimal effort and never comes back. If I'm moved to write, it's usually something that I would want the next person reading the thread to see.

I actually made the post rather sardonically.

I don't remember what made me think of this, but after reading what everyone wrote this was my thought process. I have a friend who often calls me on her way home from work. She often vents about her day, her boss, her husband, etc. She will tell me something that her boss said that day that upset her. Then she'll ask me, "Can you believe what she said to me????" And I'll say, "Yes. What in your experience would make you think she would say anything else?? We know this about her." My friend does this about many people. Someone who has always treated her badly treats her badly again, and she will ask me if I can believe it. Well, yes I can. Lately I just ask, "Do you want me to answer that question or are you just venting?" What bugs me about it is that she won't address whatever it is with that person. She will just complain to me about it. That's why I now ask her the above question.

You're right. I don't think anyone here gets that upset over this subject. I just responded to it the way I would respond to my friend. Here are the choices: either respond and don't get upset if they don't come back, or wait until you're sure they're coming back before you respond.

By the way, G., the OP left the question here and hasn't been back to see any responses, or at least she hadn't the last time I checked. If you go to a member's profile, you can find the last time they've signed on. In the OP's case. She signed in, wrote her question, and left the forum after she was done writing it. And hasn't been back since.

Cheers,
Amy

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:16 am 
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For me it's easy to understand why a person may not come bk after posting a question, I don't necessarily like it or root for that to happen lol, but nonetheless I do understand.

I think about how busy ppl are with work or smaller kids and I get it. Actually I was having an issue with one of my plants lol, when I first started and I knew very little. So I found this gardening forum online and thought.... heyyy this is awesome, I'll post my question here. Then I saw they had moderators and everything so I decided not to ask my question. I knew I'd never be bk and I wasn't so invested with plants yet that I'd even want to be on a gardening forum. I knew I'd be a one time poster and may never go bk to see answers unless I got some that night. But I'd never put that much thought into it if I wasn't familiar with forums (I was obviously familiar with one time posters because of this forum). So I didn't ask my question because it just wasn't that important, but I put deep thought into it! Too much actually.

I usually answer someone because I never know if they're a one time poster or not. I don't usually post again unless they do. But I do understand why others, like Godfrey, would because they wonder what has happened to make this person not return or not post again..... especially if it's a thread you've put effort into or know u can help this person. Plus u never know, those responses could help someone who's lurking and too shy to ask or post anything, like I was in the beginning :) So hopefully it can be a win win. Maybe it's helping someone that we don't even know is needing help.

I'm sorry if this post is all over the place, I'm about to leave my house and go 4wheeler riding lol. Not happy about this, but I promised my fiancé I'd go and I'll be on one by myself, and I can barely ride one. So hopefully I shall return safe :)

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:35 pm 
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Wear a helmet!!

Totally agree with everything you said, Jen. And there's nothing wrong with providing an empathic response to a poster, whether they come back or not. Like I said, I do it all the time myself.

Have a good rest of your weekend everyone!

Amy

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