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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:56 pm 
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Newbie here. I just started sub yesterday and have therefore taken 2 days of medication. Both days were 12mgs. I cannot stop this terrible anxiety that is not letting me think or sleep. Whats going on?
I started suboxone only after 14 hours of withdrawl and have read that this could be the case here, but shouldnt it go away soon.
Any ideas? Please help


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 5:17 pm 
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marktjc wrote:
Newbie here. I just started sub yesterday and have therefore taken 2 days of medication. Both days were 12mgs. I cannot stop this terrible anxiety that is not letting me think or sleep. Whats going on?
I started suboxone only after 14 hours of withdrawl and have read that this could be the case here, but shouldnt it go away soon.
Any ideas? Please help



Hi, mark, and welcome to the forum. I really do not know what ALL is going on with you.
Are you suffering from depression, maybe?

Anyway, I would definitely speak to my sub doctor about this issue, but that is just what i would do.

Are you going to any kind of counseling or therapy?
I go to counseling- and I am on 4 mg of sub per day; and have been on them for
almost 7 years. Anyway, counseling once every two weeks definitely helps me and my anxiety.

As well, i am on a low dose of clonazepam (also known as Klonopin)- .25 mg twice a day.
This medicine also helps my anxiety. However, i see a psych doctor separate from my sub doc to
get this medication. But when i was not able to see my psych doc, my sub doc DID prescribe it for me.

Hope this helps. Good luck!

-ex-

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:34 pm 
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Thanx exorphin for your kind reply. Yesterday I went back to the clinic and explained what was going on. The doctor was kind enough to released my next 12mgs early. This did not help. He gave me a small dose of adavan? I went home, tried to get some sleep (I havent had a wink in 2 days) but this really did not do much. One thing that I neglected to tell you is that I am a Probation Officer in Ontario, so I have to be at work every day, see clients, go to court yada yada. With all this mised time I must think my boss suspects something or just thinks Im losing my mind, caus in the past I was a pretty good emloyer. Anywho, I called in sick again today and just went back to see the doctor, 3 days in a row, and he upped my dosage to 16mgs and gave me 3 clonazapam, as you had said, for the day as well as 3 for each day of the weekend. I must say, as I sit here that I am feeling a bit better but there is still this tension that I cannot shake. You know, the one thing about me is that I stopped oxys because it was ruining my life. My wife and kids never saw me cause I was always in bed and I never ever had energy to do anything. I have seaon tickets to Buffalo Sabres games and I give them away, my son wants to play hockey and I make up an excuse that we will start next year. My wife pretty much gave me an ultimatim, get off the shit or we are through. That was simply not an option so I got on sub. The problem is, is that I always liked taking the oxys. I didnt quit cause I had spent all my money or lost my job or almost died. The fact remains that I miss them. Does anyone else have this problem and maybe thats where the anxiety is coming from. SEVERE CRAVINGS that sub is not suppressing. I dont know. I will not return to the oxys as my doctor and I almost came to blows when he cut me off, and I will not buy them on the street. But I do miss them. O well on to sobriety. Please respond if anyone has any thoughts....................Mark


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:16 pm 
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I think missing them is quite common, there are a lot of us here that did not hit that so called bottom where u are desperate to quit. My doc was oxy as well and it was prescribed for 8 months in doses up to 150mg a day. I had to quit for my family, I gave myself the ultimatum and at times still want to take oxy but i don't and it does get easier. For some people it can take a little time to get adjusted to the sub but it will happen so don't get discouraged. Are you on the tabs or the film? If you are on the tabs you should read Dr. Junig's thread on maximum absorbtion to make sure you are absorbing the medication fully. Another thing that can cause some of the anxious feeling is the naloxone, after your sub dissolves try spitting. That way you will not ingest the naloxoneand it could help. I was recently switched from suboxone to straight buprenorphine and I feel so much better. I didn't even realize I wasn't feeling good before the switch. Remember you made this choice for a reason, your family is more important than the oxy and you will eventually stabilize on the sub. Don't give up and keep on fighting the good fight! Oh and as far as your boss, just tell him you came down with a bad case of the flu or something, we are all entitled to get sick now and then. I wouldn't worry about that too much, your sobriety and life with your family is what's important now.


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 Post subject: Thanx breezy
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:43 pm 
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Thanks Breezy.....With regards to work I've pretty much put myself in the doghouse missing a number of days beacause I was high or short of pills and driving around town to every clinic and ER in the cities where I live. God I cany believe I actually did that. So Im on thin ice as it is. The girls in my office are hating me cause they have to pick up the slack with my clients (120 of them). Someone needs to see them even if Im not here. Im pretty much black balled right now. Really though..I dont give a shit. I want to get better. I want to actually do the things I did before i found these pills. I played university hockey, university golf team, worked out almost everyday, but three years of oxy use and I havent been on the ice, have no interest in golf and find solice in laying in bed telling my two little kids and wife to let me alone. Who does this? Who have I become? Im not a religious person but actually found myself watching those religious shows late at night wondering if I needed to be born again or whatever they do...lol Well for now I will give sub a chance. We are off to a slow start however and Im not feeling all that great. I will continue as I no longer have any more pills coming my way and I could never buy any off the street due to my job. I am kinda craving a bit but I hope this will pass.

How are you doing with everything?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 3:12 pm 
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Hi Mark and welcome!

There is a reason for the old adage "heroin steals your soul". Well oxy may not be heroin but it is close enough. I also had numerous hobbies before starting to abuse opiates - playing the guitar every day, golfing several times a week, shooting pool in several leagues, learning piano, etc. Those were all gone by the time I was in full addiction. I do believe opiates are way different than any other drug. At first opiates made all these experiences better, but as tolerance and withdrawal set in I became the typical user - always focused on where my next pill was coming from and always trying to recapture the feeling of those first highs.

All I can say is hang in there. As I became stable on suboxone those hobbies started to return. But yes, it was different. There is always that thought in the back of my mind of how things would be even better if I was high on opiates. These are simple cravings.

The anxiety you are feeling could also be simple cravings, especially since you admit you miss the oxy. (Dr. Junig has an excellent post about this - look for "Are you anxious? Are you sure?") I am not a doctor but I don't think bumping your sub dose up was the right thing to do. Sub is very strong, and 4-8 mg per day is more than enough to hold most people from physical withdrawal. Mental withdrawal (cravings) is a whole other beast. While suboxone helps some, my experience has been the little voice that tells me to take opiates is always there, ready at a moments notice to capitalize on my weaknesses. We are fighting with ourselves. The deepest and oldest part of our brains, which includes the reward pathways, is telling us to use. Our newer more sophisticated parts of the brain which includes reasoning are saying no. This is an epic internal struggle. Don't expect it to go away over night.

Try distracting yourself any way you can. If it's getting caught up at work, or playing with your children, or whatever, this helps tremedously. Also if you can get back into exercising, it would help a lot. You aren't going to run a marathon your first day. I found just getting out for short walks with our dog helped a lot.

Did your doc have a good reason to cut you off from the oxy? That is borderline malpractice in my opinion.

Hope you have a good weekend,
Jimmy


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 3:13 pm 
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I know exactly what you mean, I did nothing and my kids suffered. They spent a whole 8 months stuck in the house with me, I was so lazy that I didn't even sign them up for their swimming lessons because I didn't feel like it. Now I am better, I am doing things again. My kids are having fun and it didn't happen over night on sub. It took a while to get back in the swing of things. I was also put on Lexapro for depression and that helped my motivation a great deal. I know its easier said then done but give it sometime. It has to beat all the Dr shopping and panic from running out of oxy and of course the withdrawl. Maybe you should tell your boss what's been going on and that you are in treatment. Obviously you know him better than me but if u are on thin ice already, it might help for him to know you are getting better. Hang in there, you will feel better, I feel better than I have in a long time and like I said for me it didn't happen over night either.


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 Post subject: To Breezy and Jimmy
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 4:09 pm 
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Thanks guys for your kind wise words. First Breezy, let me tell you that as I am in law enforcement I just cant take the risk of telling my boss whats going on. the reason for this is really quite rational. Say, I arrest and charge a felon. He gets a good lawyer who does some digging and low and behold this officer is not only an addict but struggling to get better. These cases would get thrown out of court so fast and I would be labelled forever. I have thought about it. Dont get me wrong. It would probably make things so much better internally but I just cant take the chance. For now I am trying to come as often as I can and just get through the basics.

Jimmy, 7 years ago i was playing profesional hockey in Germany, hamburg actually (if you look online you can actually see my pitiful statistics). I was more of a physical player than a point getter, anywho I was coming around the opponents net with my head down and WHAM...LIGHTS OUT. Not to mention 2 severely crushed discs C4 and C5 in my neck. career over. I came back to Canada where I rehabbed or tried. Fell into depression as I was severely injured and not able to live out my dream anylonger as a hockey player. I found a doctor who sent me for the MRI, the CT scans, met with a great surgeon who said that as there was still fluid flowing through my spinal canal he could not do the surgery. Ill never forget that day. I looked forward to him saying to me "Im gonna fix you up good". That never happened. I messed around with different pain meds, staring with T3 and believe it or not my sons codeine cough syrop as it made me feel nice and warm and I could get comfortable enough to get some sleep. That didnt last long. I asked for something stronger as this just wasnt doing the trick. I was given Percs. WOW. Did they ever make me feel good.However after a 2 years they werent giving me the same nice feeling. I knew about oxys as I had seen so much abuse of it in my job but still decided to ask the doctor to set me up. I gave him the best song and dance about no sleep. extreme pain yada yada. 2 40's a day eventually went to 9 40's a day as prescribed. Well I dont think I ever followed those instructions once and eventually started eating 5/6 ata time, chewing as I drove to work. By the middle of the month I was out. Months of excuse, I lost them, my dog ate them, I dropped them into the lake at my cottage and my all time best, I made up a letter to show the doctor that I was promoted and had to go out of town for 2 months for work and of course would need 2 months worth of oxys. He filled it alright, but also called my work to see if I was out of town for work. The answer of course was no. Last week when I went in to try to swindle him again. He said your a liar and you will not get another pill from me. I had already planned on starting suboxone at the end of the month but wanted to have a nice send off with a few more days of oxys. Well it didnt happen and here I am in day 3 of suboxone. Feeling about 65%. Still craving a little but actually trying to talk myself into what used to be in my life. The joys, the fun, the looking forward to things without always having to think of a new story to tell the doc and having anxiety about rather he would fill it or I suffer until the next script is due. Oh ya, I forgot to mention that I have probably visited every clinic, ER in this area with every story under the sun to atleast get a few pills to get me through to the next lie. So Jimmy....That long winded story is why my doctor cut me off.

Did anyone else go through such crazy ways of getting more pills. Just wondering


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 12:46 am 
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I can remember in 2002 I had to get surgery for Kidney Stones. They are excrutiating and the docs give very good meds for this condition. I starting to abuse them. At my worse, I was on 6 pills 2 times a day, I think they were 7.5 mg of vic. After a while of course I would ask my doc for refills and he would give them, I would make excuses why I would need more. I even at one point had 3-4 different doctors giving me a script for my meds. I counted my pills 2 or 3 times a day to see how many more days of pills I had left. It was a continous hassle and consumed my entire world. I finally got sick of having to look hi and lo for more pills. I quit cold turkey. I was only on them for 2-3 months, but I was glad to be done with them and get my life back. I am now on suboxone for a different DOC. I am curently tapering my dose slowly so I can be completely free form any meds. I wish you luck in finding peace with your addiction. I know it will get better if you focus on the positives in your situation and try not to think about the negative. It is easier said than done, but there is light at the end of the tunnel for -you...Good luck.
-Sweet 16


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 8:01 am 
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Hello mark and welcome. I'm sorry you're still struggling to stabilize. I wouldn't try to drop your dosage - I'd stick with what your doctor prescribed for now. 12-16 mg is a pretty "normal" starting dose. After a time, then it's fine to find the lowest dose necessary. But until stabilized it's best to stick with where you are at. Per Dr. Junig, you WILL stabilize in a few days, at the most.

As for the anxiety, you could definitely try what Breezy suggested and spit out the remaining saliva after the tablet has dissolved instead of swallowing it. That might help.

It could also be the normal anxiety of pulling the rug out under you and taking away your only coping skill - albeit an unhealthy one. At least that's what addiction is about in many of us. You removed oxy's from your life - that's HUGE. I believe that it's normal for you to have some anxiety about that. When we were all using oxy's or whatever, it numbed our emotions, now your emotions are staring you in the face and perhaps you don't know how to handle that. Now obviously I don't know you, but this is the kind of thing that CAN happen with some addicts. And it's not something you have to talk about with us, just think about it.

Let us know how you're doing and I hope you get to feeling better soon.

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 Post subject: FEELING MUCH BETTER
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:52 am 
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Hello Everyone and god morning from Ontario, canada. I wanted to thank you all, sweet 16, breezy, exorphin, hat et all for all your kind words of encouragement and support, I only wish we could all sit together in a room and talk about our lives, our struggles. I wanted to let you all know that Friday was a tough day for me. Quite a bit of anxiety. I did try spitting out the meds after they had dissolved but to no avail. What I did do that Dr Junig recommended on a video meesage to me was to take chlonidine? I actually had some if you can believe that. I took three just before bed with a clanzopam and was able to get a pretty good nights sleep. I woke up saturday feeling pretty good but still a bit of that tension. I must admit however that it was nothing like 3 days previous, but still there. My wife was wonderful, she let me staty in bed all day to rest and get some sleep. I actually ate something for the first time in a few days. saturday night I took the chlonidine again and a clanzopam and again I slept pretty well. Sunday came and I must say I was feeling pretty good. Until the Stupid BILLS got beat, then I was just mad....LOL. Anyway, I went to Walmart with my daughter and we looked around and I I actually forgot about everything for a short time. What I mean is, I was focussing on the shopping, my litle girl, other people around me, and not on how I felt or that I'd like to get high. It was such a nice feeling. For a short time I was normal, and not an addict. People may not understand what I'm trying to say but, it was a small breakthrough for me. Anyway, its Monday morning and Im at my desk feeling absolutely wonderful. And the thing that excites me more is that I will feel even better later. This is only day 4 for me.

If there is anyone out there that is struggling, please contact me. I would love to offer my support. It gets better.

GO BILLS


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:45 am 
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I am so glad you stuck it out and are feeling better! You are right, as you get your life back together you are going to keep feeling better. You had a rough few days but now that that's over with you have the rest of your wonderful life to look forward to!


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