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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:26 pm 
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Hello,

I'm 24 years old and had a pain killer addiction for 2 years. I started taking 8 mg of Suboxone 6 months ago and the at first I thought it was a miracle drug, and still not sure if it is or isn't. Anyways, for the past 4 months I have been having anxiety that I never in my life experienced. A few months ago it landed me in the ER when I thought I had pneumonia and was dying etc. My heart rate laying down was 140. The did chest x-rays, ekgs, blood work etc and send me home saying it was anxiety. For a few weeks after that I would wake my father up every night because I couldn't breathe and wanted him to keep an eye on me etc. I have had both arms go completely numb and shaking and its the scariest thing in the world. I am in the worst state of my life and only leave the house to get my refills and need my father to drive me because I get panic attacks so bad that I turn white and feel faint while driving. My primary who also prescribes the Suboxone, put me on Xanax 2mg a day and that has helped for sure, but I'm still not able to leave house. I have been reading about breathing exercises and they help me also so I don't have to go to the ER.
I been found a thread with people who were having problems with naloxone etc. and have been hoping that its whats wrong with me and that I will get better once off the Sub. The Drs. just keep saying Anxiety etc.

I went and had an endoscope done because I was worried about my acid reflux and thought that I had ulcers or a hiatal hernia. I was correct and do have a hernia, but Dr. said its a slight one and that its nothing that would cause what I describe to him with the anxiety. I have been thinking the hernia was hitting the vagus nerve and throwing my body off. I feel like hell when I eat and my hands/feet get very cold and I am fatigue. I have the constipation which everyone seems to have, but I only go to the bathroom when having a panic attack and its no fun. I can't help to think that I have a serious underlying problem like Addison's disease or a tumor hitting my adrenal gland etc. I know, its sad.

If anyone can help me, it would mean the world to me! Any similar stories or experiences? Any links of threads like mine? Suggestions? IDK, I feel so alone because my DRs are sick of me it seems and I can't get to the bottom of this.

I'm strongly debating facing the suboxone WD to see if it helps my anxiety. I want my life back so bad!!!! I used to love driving, and that was the thing I needed to do every night to get my mind off of pills back in the day when I quit percocets cold turkey the first time. I loved driving and getting fresh air as I listen to my favorite music. I used to be the life of the party and not afraid of anything. Now I moved back home with parents cause I'm in such a fragile state.

When I quit sub, whats the best way to do it? I was thinking trying Cold turkey and then when i can't take it and need sleep, take a 5mg perc. I honestly have no desire to go back to pills as I have figured out my deep issues etc. I would just wean off sub with it and in a very small way. I have the will power 95%, I just worry about the anxiety stuff. Or should I do a Rapid detox of sub?

Ill cut it here for now, my hands are freezing from just typing... Sorry for the long post, I am just saying what comes to my mind. I will check the thread tomorrow and am going to pray that someone can guide me into the right direction.

Thanks


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 Post subject: panic disorder
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:12 pm 
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I have panic disorder and it happens to people that have been though something terrible. It is not something your born with. I never experienced them before until after my back surgery. They feel like your having a heart attack. Feels like you have very little air in your lungs. I never know what will trigger them. Driving at times I'll see myself crashing and it is terrifying. Mine are far from being as bad as yours and so far I'm not on meds for it my Dr. have tried a few meds but none that have helped so far.

As far as you jumping off of subs I have only been on a few weeks, but from what I hear it is not as easy as just jumping on a high dose. I really wish you well with your attacks.

You said you have been on subs a while and the attacks just started a few months ago. Did something else happen in between the time you started subs and the attacks started? It is something to think about I would think that if it were subs they would have started sooner.

Good Luck
Mel

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:35 am 
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Sorry you're going through such a rough time. I would seriously consider speaking to a professional therapist before making the decision to go off Sub. I was recently looking into counseling myself, and two out of the three providers I looked at specialized in anxiety/panic issues. Anxiety is a big feature of Suboxone withdrawal, and I don't think you want to add that to what you are already experiencing. If you do decide to go off, you are going to need to taper, at least to some degree. But please talk to someone first - IMHO abruptly stopping Sub and hoping Percs will help is not going to work for you.
Keep us posted,
Lilly


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:27 am 
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Hi wantlifeback,

I would also caution you about jumping off of Suboxone abrubtly or from any kind of high dose. I never really experienced any kind of severe anxiety in my life until I jumped off of Suboxone. I jumped from a fairly high dose and I experienced some wicked anxiety for a few weeks.

Are you on 8mg of Suboxone now? Maybe you could start by cutting your dose down to 6mg or so and see if it has any effect? If you jump completely off of Suboxone from 8mg, I'm afraid you're gonna be in for a hell ride.

If you suspect Naloxone is causing some of your anxiety, you could spit your saliva out after you think your Suboxone has been absorbed. Many people do this because they would get headaches while on Suboxone, once they started spitting out the left over saliva, their headaches would go away. Just something to try?

Oh Yeah, do drink coffee or other caffeinated drinks?? If I drink too much coffee, it drives me up a wall with anxiety.

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 Post subject: Anxiety
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:16 pm 
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I'm glad Romeo posted because he has experience jumping from a fairly high dose. I would take to heart what he says, he's been there.

And I am going to agree that jumping off Sub will make your anxiety worse, not better. You stated the doctors were tired of you and your health issues so it may be a good idea to find a new Sub doctor.

Anxiety can be treated in different ways. Therapy, short time use of an anti-anxiety drug like Xanax, anti-depressant also work very well in some cases. My wife had terrible panic attacks and anxiety issues too. Her doctor put her on Paxil and that did the trick. It may not be the treatment for you but don't give up. There are lots of remedies to help you, it's just finding the right one that will work.

If you are determined to get off the Suboxone I'd suggest a very slow taper. Every person is different so let your body dictate how fast you can go. Don't make large drops and give yourself a week at least in between drops. There are plenty of past posts showing time frames for tapering. If you can't find them I will look and post them for you.

Hang in there. The Sub is not your enemy, the anxiety is. Look at treating that first before even thinking about tapering.

Just my 2¢ and I am not a medical professional. My words are only my experience.

Hope you feel better.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:35 am 
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Anxiety is surely a byproduct of the addiction. However in a small amount of cases naloxone enters the body through different systems that will cause Bupe to be blocked somewhat, therefore causing typical withdrawal symptoms. Here is a direct quote from Dr. Junig,
Quote:
Naloxone does not pass through the mucous membranes lining the oral cavity, and instead ends up being swallowed, and taken up into the portal vein from the proximal small intestine. In MOST people, naloxone is then rapidly destroyed by the liver before getting into the systemic circulation.
The link to the article is below, read it so you could get a professional perspective.
In my opinion, after two years of opiate addiction the brain experiences significant negative changes that need time to heal. Although you may have not experienced this problem before, it may have been dormant inside you and the addiction or the naloxone or the personal circumstances and stressors may have brought the anxiety to the forefront. We go through allot of psychological changes through this process, be patient and get to a physician that specializes in such matters. PCP's do not normally have the experience to treat all aspects of addiction correctly and some overlook what you may be experiencing.
You say that you want your life back so bad, but realize that you did not get into this situation quickly- so you will not get out of it any quicker. Recovery takes time, patience, and hard work. Attempting a rapid jump off of Suboxone will only further torment you, and trust me- I know from personal experience! Best wishes and keep posting, here is the link
Suboxone Talk Zone

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:34 am 
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I've been in similar states, and my heart goes out to you man seriously.

Something I have learnt by going through mental illness is you should be really wary of making big decisions while your thinking is compromised. When anxious, judgement goes out the window completely. I honestly couldn't even tell what was causing my problems while in a state of anxiety.

I too question whether the naloxone plays a role. I've been on both Subutex and Suboxone, and the difference is really quite negligable imo. Any effect from the naloxone is felt only in the first few minutes, and it usually only slows the buprenorphine kicking in a bit. Buprenorphine itself is an opiate that's more on the stimulant side of things, so there is a chance the buprenorphine itself is playing a role, albeit a small one.

Like Romeo, I've jumped off high doses of Suboxone, often as a result of compromised thinking. Looking back, the decision to jump off was often impulsive, and misguided, and never gave me the peace I was looking for.

A more likely scenario given what you've said in this thread, is that anxiety is something you may have a predisposition for, or have even always had to a degree. Were you overly concerned with your health before going on Suboxone? Does anyone else in the family have mental health issues - anxiety / depression etc?

I'd seriously look at non-pharmaceutical ways to manage your anxiety. Be careful of benzos (see the thread about them in the misc forum!). Seriously try meditation. Download some guided meditations, or go to a meditation class. Practice mindfulness, and try to move out of your mind and into your body. Listen to more soothing music. Cut down on caffeine. Watch your diet, and exercise. Exercise is the "normal person's xanax" :lol:

You might be like "too much effort" but honestly, looking for answers in a drug will often just lead to more problems. Herbal tea & massages all the way! Grow some mungbeans, grow your hair. Maybe your anxiety is telling you it's a lifestyle thing?

I'm glad you've realised the hyperchondria is a symptom of your anxiety. There's plenty of people on internet forums who haven't!

Good luck,

T.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:23 pm 
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I agree with Tearjerker about the meditation, guided imagery, etc. In fact, in the Chronic Pain section, there's a thread I posted some time ago (http://suboxforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=1582) that is a quick guide to how to start doing meditation, etc. It's a pretty long and detailed post, but I tried to write it in such a way so that people could learn how to start doing it.

Maybe you could give it a try? When I stopped all of my benzos, I was scared to death to have nothing to treat my anxiety. I finally listened to my therapist and tried meditation. At first I thought it was a bunch of hooey. Turned out it worked great for me. I no longer even need to do it and have next to no anxiety at all (almost 3 years later). I think for ME and me only (I can't stress enough that this applies only to ME), I never had any real, clinical anxiety to begin with. I just liked the artificial relaxation as i was unable to deal with the everyday ups and downs of life. Now I'm able to handle such things without anything.

I hope the relaxation techniques can give you some relief. I know it can if you give it a shot and keep practicing it. Good luck to you.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:08 pm 
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Didn't read all the posts so sorry if a dup. try focusing on your breathing. It can really help. No distractions, tv, phone, food, computer, etc. practice slowing down while focusing on breathing. Also you can create a place that is just yours. a perfect place in your mind and go there whenever you want. Sounds weird, but it can work. I have read about, and have the same impending doom feelings from this drug. maybe try tapering if you want to.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 8:04 am 
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WantLifeBack wrote:
Hello,

I'm 24 years old and had a pain killer addiction for 2 years. I started taking 8 mg of Suboxone 6 months ago and the at first I thought it was a miracle drug, and still not sure if it is or isn't. Anyways, for the past 4 months I have been having anxiety that I never in my life experienced. A few months ago it landed me in the ER when I thought I had pneumonia and was dying etc. My heart rate laying down was 140. The did chest x-rays, ekgs, blood work etc and send me home saying it was anxiety. For a few weeks after that I would wake my father up every night because I couldn't breathe and wanted him to keep an eye on me etc. I have had both arms go completely numb and shaking and its the scariest thing in the world. I am in the worst state of my life and only leave the house to get my refills and need my father to drive me because I get panic attacks so bad that I turn white and feel faint while driving. My primary who also prescribes the Suboxone, put me on Xanax 2mg a day and that has helped for sure, but I'm still not able to leave house. I have been reading about breathing exercises and they help me also so I don't have to go to the ER.
I been found a thread with people who were having problems with naloxone etc. and have been hoping that its whats wrong with me and that I will get better once off the Sub. The Drs. just keep saying Anxiety etc.


TO: WANT MYLIFEBACK:

I am a registered nurse...certainly no doctor, but I have some information for you that might help. I used to have these attacks like you. It was way before I got on subutex. I never knew when it would hit...I could just be sitting in chair doing nothing. My heart would start racing ..my lips would get numb, my hands would draw up and I thought I was having a heart attack or stroke. Finally one of the doctors at the hospital where I worked told me how to get out of these attacks.

Let's suppose you are healthy...you have been to the er and had tests done and all your docs say it is anxiety...so let's believe it is just that...anxiety. I don't think it has anything to do with your sub. treatment. There are some things you can do to get out of an attack. First do a "val salva" maneouver. This is where you bare down like you are having a bowel movement and then let go...do this several times..sometimes it will kick you heart back into a normal sinus rythum. Also get some ice and put it on the bridge of your nose....rub your carotid arteries (not both at the same time) these are the arteries on the side of your neck where you can feel your pulse...stick your head in a bucket of ice water, another thing is to...breath in through your nose and out through your mouth, slowly and normal...be aware of your breathing and continue to breathe normally no matter how scared you are. Think of something funny and try laughing out loud...breathe in a paper sack...and always be sitting down. My doctor said the worst thing that could happen to me was that i would pass out and fall and hit my head or something..so always sit or lie down. It takes about 20-30 minutes to work yourself out of one of these spells so be patient. The last thing is to stick your finger down your throat like you are trying to make yourself vomit...the gag reflex will also sometimes trip the sinus nerve back into normal sinus rythum.


What you are experiencing is atrial fib....and it is not dangerous...the worst thing that could happen would be if you passed out and fell and hurt yourself. ...after you pass out your brain quits getting signals from you and returns to nsr(normal sinus rythum. Ventrictular fib. is DANGEROUS and should be checked out. I'm sure when you went to the ER they did an ekg and could tell whether or not your were int atrial or ventr. fib. I hope this helps.................Judy


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:25 am 
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Good morning WMLB,
I am new to the site as many are. I had my first panic attack when I was 4 years old and remember it like it was yesterday. It was one of the reasons I got myself in trouble with drugs and alcohol starting at 11 yrs old. I remember watching my dad as a kids having his own panic attacks, and I watched my kids have their's. When I got sober at 25 I found myself researching everything I could on panic and anxiety. Read every book, went to support classes, became trained in NLP ( Neuro Linguistic Programming). But still woke up everyday with panic and anxiety. After about 10 years of being sober I saw an ad on late night TV for attacking anxiety and depprssion. I remember laughing, saying to myself "for $19.95 you too can rid yourself of anxiety and depression". Well that late night purchase of roughly $300.00 was one of the best investments I have ever made.
Please Google (Attacking Anxiety And Deppression) and you will find the program from the Midwest Center for stress and anxiety with Lucinda Bassett. For me, it has truly put me back in the game of life. No more panic!! It has been roughly 12 years since I had a panic attack. I ended up purchasing a couple more for the kids and wouldn't you know that most of the kids in the neighborhood followed that program. Check it out. Please understand that you can control panic and anxiety once you know the right tools to work with.
Best Wishes,


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xxx


Last edited by Adrenaline on Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:43 pm 
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PS.
Hi everybody :D
Now that I've finally stopped being lazy and finally created a login, I'll be posting here more often.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:52 pm 
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Hah, sorry about those, apparently I had a few tabs open and posted in the wrong topic. If a Mod could remove them, I'd appreciate it.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:03 am 
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It's the sub,trust me I was on it for 4 years and out of no where I started going into withdrawal even while taking sub and had to spend 13,000 at a rehad in Florida to get of the crap and then another six months of paws which was a hell I can not describe.Just look at these boards and 90% are negative shit.This drug alterd my brain for life as I have detoxed of 30 10 mg hydros many times and was fine after 5 days. But the first go around with sub I was on them for 4 days and withdrawald for a month then went. Back on hydro got off and again fine in 5 days. I didn't know it was the sub so I ended up on the shit for 4 years and my body begin to reject it.Get of the shit as soon as you can I did and am now clean and well never touch opiates again,Suboxone is the devil and a money maker for drs and reckit.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:10 am 
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exjunkie wrote:
It's the sub,trust me I was on it for 4 years and out of no where I started going into withdrawal even while taking sub and had to spend 13,000 at a rehad in Florida to get of the crap and then another six months of paws which was a hell I can not describe.Just look at these boards and 90% are negative shit.This drug alterd my brain for life as I have detoxed of 30 10 mg hydros many times and was fine after 5 days. But the first go around with sub I was on them for 4 days and withdrawald for a month then went. Back on hydro got off and again fine in 5 days. I didn't know it was the sub so I ended up on the shit for 4 years and my body begin to reject it.Get of the shit as soon as you can I did and am now clean and well never touch opiates again,Suboxone is the devil and a money maker for drs and reckit.


What you are doing is presenting your opinions about suboxone as fact when they is not. You obviously never took your suboxone correctly and that WILL affect how it works. The point of using suboxone is to use it for maintenance and/or to TAPER you off the MEDS YOU WERE ALREADY HOOKED on, so being on them for 4 days, you would have had withdrawals from YOUR PREVIOUS MEDS, not the suboxone. And now here you are coming on our site and presenting false information, apparently just to stir up shit. That's THE definition of trolling and it is not acceptable on this forum.

A simple medication that's developed to help addicts isn't "the devil"; it's a little orange pill, that's all. That anger of yours toward a tiny orange pill might be considered a warning sign to take heed of; it's not a very healthy attitude to have such rage against a little ole' pill. Just sayin'....

Please take care in your future posts to follow the rules and not debate the choices people make, INCLUDING their choice to use suboxone and you trying to talk people OUT of using suboxone IS NOT RESPECTING THEIR CHOICES. Please review the rules before you post again. THANK YOU.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:39 am 
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Whingers :roll:


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:49 pm 
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Hat,
GREAT JOB on that post.

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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 12:20 am 
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I used Suboxone like I should I was on 2 mg from 10 mg for 2 years and it turned on me.I went into withdrawals while on it and the doctor upped my dose and still went through hell.This drug is not for long term use and you are blind if you don't see that 90% of post are bad experiences to like 10% good.But go ahead and stay on it and when you do try to come off then we will talk about what you think about Suboxone.Anyone who has problems you mods try and blame it on anything but sub and you know nothing about how I took but you say I took it wrong,what a joke.


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 5:39 am 
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First of all, "medications" don't "turn on people". You are anthropomorphizing an inanimate object. And suboxone shouldn't have to be raised after years on it...that goes on your doctor, not on the med or on us. It's physically impossible to go into w/d on it without adding something into the mix after years of being on it. A person can't just take sub as recommended and just "go into w/d" all of a sudden for no reason. It makes no sense and frankly cannot happen for no reason. Something is missing from your story.

Your 90% of bad experiences are likely coming from sites like "subsux"...why not go back over there and stop trolling this site? It's a PRO-suboxone site and you're obviously just trying to stir up shit here, which is unacceptable.

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