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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:38 am 
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I have been taking suboxone for almost 3 years now. At first I was on and off for a year, then after breaking up with my ex-girlfriend I stayed on it because it helped with depression more then anything I've taken for depression before. I originally started suboxone due to a really bad fatigue syndrome, as it was the only thing that allowed me to have energy throughout the entire day or 24 hours vs. when using hydrocodone, which only gave me energy for about 4-5 hours. I was prescribed at 8mg a day (which was way too much for me) but ended up only using about 4mg after the first dose of 8mg. Within the past several years I would take random doses depending on how I felt and on how depressed I was. I also stopped seeing the doctor because it was just retarted expensive to see him once a month then pay for the meds. Sadly, it was cheaper getting subs elsewhere threw dealers or online.

Last year I wanted to stop because it wasn't really doing anything anymore for me and instead would only help with my fatigue or depression if I purposely put myself in withdrawals then took it. So I decided to see a psychiatrist and what they could do for me. He was worried about the subs I was buying online, thinking they could be fake or something else and didn't want to prescribe me anything unless I promised him I wouldn't take the meds I got online. He ended up only giving me Gabapentin and Lexapro, and said the Gabapentin would help with the anxiety of not taking the suboxone or worrying about the withdrawals and would calm me down. I never took the Lexapro because I took it a few years ago and when I stopped I had the worse headaches to where it felt like my brain wanted to explode. I filled the Gabapentin script but saved them until I was ready to stop taking suboxone.

Fast forward a year later, still on subs, got down to about 1mg a day at one point but then back up to 4mg (2mg twice a day). I started to hate myself for not being strong enough to stop, it was making me feel suicidal that I had to depend on something. Preventing myself from going on vacations, visiting family, etc. This next part might sound really stupid, but about 3-4 weeks ago, I was flipping threw the Japanese programs on Netflix (I love Japan, lived there for 2 years before I started Suboxone) and I cam across this show "Terrace House". It is a show where they film the lives for 6 Japanese people living in the same house together for 9 months. While watching the show, all I could think about was I would LOVE to be on this show. I started to get this burst of energy and mental strength on stopping suboxone like I've never had before. I was excited about doing this, so I created a taper plan from 4mg to .25mg in three weeks with whatever subs I had left.

Last week on Tuesday morning was the last time I took a sub, but I started to get the anxiety and called the guy I usually get from and figured I would just get some as a 'backup' if I needed it. He told me to come over in an hour, so I did. When I got there, the room smelt like burnt glass and two people were smoking from crack pipes. I held in my breath because I wasn't sure what they were smoking and didn't want it in my system. Then the guy who was suppose to sell me subs is running around his house talking about how someone just tried to rob him and he was holding a bat with this spike headband thing over it. As this is going on I just said to myself I need to leave and never come back. I told them I left my wallet in the car and never looked back.

The first two days were the roughest, but I ended up taking the Gabapentin I had from last year (500mg) when the RLS was the worse. Then my roomate gave me some marijuana when I wanted to go to sleep. I've never been addicted to anything else, I don't drink beer, smoke, etc. So I'm not worried about 'swapping one thing for another'.

Days three and four, I had a short burst of energy and feeling that the wd's were over? Thinking because I tapered down to .25mg that maybe I did it. So I stopped taking the Gabapentin and marijuana.

Day five started out like 3 & 4, but when night time came I had the terrible wd's. Worse then days 1 and 2. I am really contemplating calling to get subs now. All I kept thinking about is I could feel better in 30mins if I just had some but at the same time I felt like a HUGE loser if I caved now. Feeling like a loser trumped wanting to feel better. So I googled what I could do to help with the wd's if anything. Many people said to take immodium, so I looked around the house and had some. I took 5 pills with a large glass of water and amazingly within about an hour the wd's were gone. I was shocked, couldn't believe that it worked. I slept 10 hours this night too.

Day 6 my body felt like shit because I haven't worked out in days. Before quitting I would work out daily, so I drank tons of pre workout to get as much energy as possible. Normally this doesn't even work due to my fatigue issue. It's more of a mental thing then physical when drinking the pre workout for energy. I can drink 4-5 scoops of pre workout and fall asleep 10 mins later with no issues. Once at the gym I felt excited to be out of the house, but also noticed I had huge black/purple eyes in the mirrors. Not sure if this was due to the wd's or lack of sleep/eating. This kind of made me feel self conscious, so did a 35min full body workout and finished with 10mins of cardio. I was so exhausted while doing cardio, this really made me mad because I would normally go for hours but within minutes I felt tired and shaking. Either case, I was sort of happy I got some exercise in. Again on this day, just like day 5, once night time came around I started to feel wd's. Instead of taking the immodium again, I took 500mg of Gabapentin and this helped with the ease of wd's, however it took me AWHILE to fall asleep (about 15 episodes of Vampire Diaries on Netflix).

Day 7, today. Woke up late due to going to sleep late but got about 7-8 hours of sleep in. I want to say that today has been better then all the other days. I was able to clean my house and eat a decent amount of food. It is 11pm now and no wd's all day, so I am hoping I am out of the clear? I am going to make an appointment to see my psychiatrist to see what I can get for depression because I think I am in a fake stage of euphoria being excited I am getting off the suboxone. However, I don't want to take something that I will become dependent on like Lexapro. So I am unsure what they will be able to give me this time. A friend of mine swears by something called Wellbutrin but I am unsure if this will cause issues once I stop as I normally tend to not want to take things after awhile.

That's all I have for now, I have stopped before several times and started again but this time I am mentally strong and HATE how this controlled my life making me feel chained to the ground. I feel this is key for anyone wanting to quit, then planning what to do/take during wd's as long as it isn't something addictive. On Day 4, I did take some kratom tea at a kava/hippi cafe which did make me feel super relaxed but only felt like this could prolong the wd's, so never went back. I might go to a few NA meetings this week but my anxiety and fear on going might stop me, we'll see. It's been about 40mins since I drank my pre-workout to write this post, so I am going to go to the gym and see if I can workout longer this time. Thanks for reading! がんばって!


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:57 am 
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That's quite a story.

Your life has been controlled by your mind, not a medication that many people have tapered off to low amounts and stepped off with very little problems. Because most of us taking bupernorphine are physically dependent on it rather than psychologically dependent.

Do you realize that you've listed a whole bunch of problems with fatigue and depression and life and listed several medications plus MJ that you've been on and off, but you've somehow narrowed it down to buprenorphine as the substance that's controlling you? Doesn't it seem like there might be other possibilities?

Kaito, feel free to stick around, share your progress, get support from others, which you will. We just don't put up with a lot of buprenorphine bashing/criticizing here unless you have some scientific evidence to back it up. Just wanted to let you know.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:01 pm 
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Thanks for sharing Kaito. As Amy wrote, your battle to stop buprenorphine appears, from your post, to be a big part of your life.

Ideally, people get to a point where buprenorphine fades into the background, so that the taper is one small part of life. The problem with a big battle with buprenorphine is that when the battle ends, opioids are still a big issue-- making relapse more likely down the line.

We would suggest thinking of buprenorphine as someone would think of a med for hypertension. Take it each day-- and try not to spend time thinking about how you 'feel'. If those thoughts are always there, you may want to put off tapering until they are less of an issue.

When it is time to taper, consider purchasing the film cutting guide sold by a reader of this forum, and making very small reductions every week or two. Many people write about 'jumping' at some point, but you don't really need to jump. A better approach is to 'slide' off a very small dose.

Of course, you're already at a point where it makes the most sense to remain abstinent-- and so I hope you'll stick around, and use the support when you need it. When you're struggling, let us know-- and we'll cheer you on. You're well over half the way there, so stay with it-- and good luck.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:41 am 
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Thanks, it means a lot. Today was another successful day, only took amino acids and advil when needed. It takes me awhile to finally fall asleep, but when I do and wake up I feel okay. I am just struggling with wanting to do stuff, I want to remain in bed all day. Then as the sun sets and it gets dark outside the restlessness starts to kick in like clockwork. This is where temptation is at its worse because I start saying to myself "if I only take a little, it will be okay." When I start to think like that though, I pick up my phone and take a walk playing Pokemon GO with my cat ( yes I walk my cat :lol: ). This helps a little but I feel like the walking increases my anxiety and takes awhile for me to calm down when back home.

Before taking Subs, I did come close to getting H just because it was cheaper then everything I was taking/buying on-top of being stronger then what the docs originally gave me but I saw how bad my friends were that were on it and they all said the same thing, that they wish they never started. Personally I wish I never started subs and just quit cold turkey years ago but I've seen how it has saved many of my friends lives who couldn't kick their habits, so I don't hate the medicine and what it stands for. I just am upset with myself for not thinking about the ladder consequences when I started this venture.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:20 pm 
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I love that you and your cat play Pokemon Go! My 18 year old son played it for a while but got frustrated when it stopped working so well? We have a spazzo cat (indoor only) so I doubt she would do very well on a walk.

I know you're disappointed in yourself for going on suboxone instead of going cold turkey. I think it's pretty easy to second guess yourself in this situation, but remember what you've done in the last three years. Were you able to focus on other things besides your obsession to use? Were you able to rebuild relationships and either start working or do a better job at work? Are your finances better? I hope that you also spent some time working with or without a therapist on why you may have been vulnerable to numbing yourself on drugs in the first place. Do you know what your triggers are?

I don't mean to badger you with questions, but I do want you to reflect on what the differences are that you've made in your life the last three years. And I'm not doing this to make suboxone look good. I want you to recognize how far you've come. If you look at the scientific evidence you would have had about a 90 to 95% chance of relapsing if you had tried an abstinence only, cold turkey type of recovery. You probably would have had to go to an inpatient facility to detox and then to keep you away from the outside world. You would have had to white knuckle a recovery and probably relapse several times over the last 3 years. You write that you were pretty close to switching over to heroin when you got on sub. If you had relapsed during the last three years the likelihood is that you would have moved on to heroin.

There's a chance that you would have been among the 5 to 10% of people who don't relapse, but the odds aren't good. The changes made in your brain by addiction are, unfortunately, still there. You will always be vulnerable to relapse because of it. But I bet you have a better chance of staying straight now than you would have had three years ago. You have a rebuilt life to focus on and that helps. You have an opportunity to find a support group if you haven't already. (I recommend SMART Recovery.) You can even find ways to help other addicts if you feel strong enough.

What I'm trying to show you is that your time on suboxone was not wasted time. It's time that you can feel good about living a life in recovery without the obsession and craving for your drug of choice. I think it's better in general if you can look at that period of your life with some pride. I'm proud of you. You have three years of recovery under your belt. That's no small thing.

It's not unusual to have a little anger at this point when you're detoxing. And, although I want you to take personal responsibility for yourself, I would rather you think poorly about the medication right now than about yourself. Just try to keep it off the forum. :)

Amy

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:16 am 
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your a lot like me..

for the workout thing let me say this

if you let your body rest and focus on different activities for a week or two .. you'll jump right back, you can push yourself to the limit but you'll be surprised the gains - no sub.

you got this and I couldn't be happier for your recovery , keep pushing !

the fluctuating dopamine levels I experienced were severe for the first little bit,


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:04 am 
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Quick update, day 12? I think and it has been SLOWLY getting better. Easier to wake up, still having issues falling asleep. Getting out of bed is 50/50, sometimes it will take 1 or 2 hours or I can get up immediately. I am sneezing a lot too, several times a day I will sneeze uncontrollably for about one whole minute. It's not a bad thing, I actually enjoy sneezing lol but my roommate thinks I have a sneezing problem now.

I stopped drinking my pre workouts because a friend told me that caffeine caused wd's to last longer and would also make it harder for me to fall asleep. So with the lack of energy I've only been going jogging for about 30mins a day, just to get my muscles moving. Lifting weights right now is just impossible but I do random 20x pullups threw out the day when I can.

Today though, was the first day that I was able to sit down and focus on work. I was also able to play Diablo 3 for several hours with some Skype buddies. I've only been taking motrin now, two in the morning and two more if I need them later in the day. Last night, I couldn't fall asleep due to a slight RLS and the RLS just bothered me to the point of giving me anxiety, which made going to sleep worse. I got out of bed, grabbed some Gatorade from the fridge, walked my cat for a bit. Then when I got back inside, I ended up taking two benadryl's. I was worried about taking benadryl before because I thought it was going to make me 'head' tired while I still had too much RLS to where my brain wants to sleep but my body doesn't. However, I had the strangest sensation where it felt like my legs were tingling with warmth. Almost like any area that was trying to be restless was being warmed up. That warmth in my legs made it very relaxing to fall asleep.

I just can't wait until my muscles/joints will start to feel normal so I can be more active. Thanks for all the comments too, it means a lot.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:30 pm 
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the rls will be gone soon, its the other issues I had to worry about. I suffered bad stomach pains for quite some time


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:06 am 
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Today (day 13/14?) I felt amazing, almost like my normal self. I had a lot of energy, ate a lot of food and was even able to work out. Still having issues falling asleep, so I am just staying awake until I pass out which has given me time to read books as well ('lunch with buddha', i read 'breakfast with buddha' awhile ago and didn't know the author wrote another and the Lightbringer series).

It's crazy how bad the physical symptoms are for the first 7-10 days and I shake my head at myself for almost caving at one point but I was reading other users journals on going through the withdrawals and just reading how it DOES eventually get better and you DO start to feel normal made me wait it out.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:38 am 
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have you tried melatonin to fall asleep. i take 20mg which is a lot, but you really can't take too much. they are usually 3mg, 5mg or 10mg supplements.

congrats on 7 days!

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:13 pm 
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/r I was using melatonin for like 2 years awhile ago and developed migraines, once I stopped the melatonin the migraines also stopped. So I never took it again but I started with 5mg then onto 10mg then onto 15mg.

Just wanted to share an update. Still going, had a few days were I felt amazing but now I am getting restless during the night which wakes me up. So I 'was' able to fall asleep but the restlessness was waking me up. I finally went to see a doc and ended up getting welbutrin but it seems the welbutrin intensified the restlessness by like 10. It is HORRENDOUS but the welbutrin has given me a strange boost of energy, not too wired but just like perfect to do things. Which is nice but the downfall is I can't fall asleep. I've been able to get back on my workout schedule and put in 2 hours at the gym everyday, for the last 7 days. I believe all the supplements I take for working out (also stopped sugar and soda intake) ontop of the welbutrin is just too much for my brain to handle while trying to repair the damaged receptors. The first two nights on welbutrin I tried taking benadryl and gabapentin but it didn't work, I was super alert still. So I am just going to deal with the insomnia until I see my doc again and maybe they can prescribe something for sleep but I don't want anything that will slow down the healing of my receptors. I do remember taking zanaflex a few years ago and it put me to sleep really comfy and had vivid dreams. So I am going to ask if this will be okay vs. taking something like klonopin.

I just dread dealing with this for a few more months. The random streaks of chills and body aches pulsating randomly during the day. I keep telling myself one day at a time. Still taking motrin everyday for the aches. Usually as soon as I wake up and whenever the restlessness peeks at nighttime. I might try aleve to see if it works better but I read ibuprofen is suppose to work better for muscle aches. Not sure if they are exactly muscle aches but it does feel like it.

Even though I ranted above, I don't want people to think its a gloomy journey there is a light at the end of all this and it's what keeps me going. It's like living in New York with several months of winter, then spring arrives and its fun to go outside again.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 7:32 pm 
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You have it right with one day at a time. I keep telling myself tomorrow will be better. I did it wrong and didn't taper. I know or recognize everyone that's replied on your post. I took 8-16 mg a day for 4 years then 4 mg for a week then quit. The last dose was Dec 31st. It's been 34 days. I also had benzo withdrawals. During my second and third week. So being so far along I still have bad days. Like the last few. The anxiety is driving me nuts. It's crazy cause it's been a while but I didn't taper. All I'm saying is I had the toughest month and just kept pushing. I've been off benzos for a couple weeks. I got some trazadone and it helped. Now all I take are vitamins. I sneezed too. It'll stop. Glad to hear your doing better. I'm almost used to feeling like crap. I try to excercise but die out so fast, but have anxiety. It's crazy. I did Benzos for 4 months. Never been a fan but was buying them for the first week and got too many too quick and started taking them months before I quit subs. All the times I've been sober in the past, sometimes a year n half or more I never had issues. That's why I don't think the anxiety is caused by anything but stopping everything. It's not as bad but still irritating. My hands shake sometimes... Anyway sorry for making this so long, if I can last this long so can you. At least I can say I haven't done any subs this year. That's something.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 3:45 am 
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Thanks for the reply and no I don't mind if its long. I enjoy reading what others have to say.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 2:22 pm 
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I felt the same way when it came to suppliments, the brain and intestines took the hardest toll from when I quit. almost 5months later im geitng back to pre sub weight. put on a lot of weight but I was working out to hard when on sub .take it easy take your time, youll gain muscle twice as fast off sub so taking a little break makes no difference. do biking and light running if you want


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:23 am 
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I like it when it's cold out at night because I go walking with my hoodie and headphones. I like the night. Too much going on during the day. I feel so much better. Light excercise, better diet, lots of water, all helps. I'm going to sleep. Thanks guys


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:01 pm 
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Glester1 wrote:
I like it when it's cold out at night because I go walking with my hoodie and headphones. I like the night. Too much going on during the day. I feel so much better. Light excercise, better diet, lots of water, all helps. I'm going to sleep. Thanks guys

wear something reflective! don't want you to get run over by a bus out there!

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 10:33 pm 
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SisterMorphine wrote:
Glester1 wrote:
I like it when it's cold out at night because I go walking with my hoodie and headphones. I like the night. Too much going on during the day. I feel so much better. Light excercise, better diet, lots of water, all helps. I'm going to sleep. Thanks guys

wear something reflective! don't want you to get run over by a bus out there!

aw. i love that you walk your cat, who also needs something reflective. my 1st cat i used to have a tie out. and he'd growl at the local crazy guy when he walked by. thought he was a dog, he did. my current cat types on my computer. he actually has his own fb page!

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:30 am 
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I guess luckily for me there are no buses here. I stay on the sidewalk and use crosswalks and always push the button. I don't trust drivers so I pay attention.
Thanks for caring.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:38 am 
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Glester1 wrote:
I guess luckily for me there are no buses here. I stay on the sidewalk and use crosswalks and always push the button. I don't trust drivers so I pay attention.
Thanks for caring.

ok!

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