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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 4:02 pm 
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There having been people posting here recently that are claiming after stopping suboxone their withdrawals lasted OVER A YEAR!!! Now I know this can't possibly be true. I want to know the facts so that everyone can know what to expect and we can set the record straight once and for all.

Everyone who has stopped using suboxone please let us know the following information...

1. How many mgs were you on and for how long?

2. How long did you taper? And by how many mgs at each drop?

3. Once stopped HOW LONG DID YOUR ACCUTE WITHDRAWAL LAST?

4. You can also include after accute withdrawal ended did you experience PAWS and if so for how long?

I would like to thank everyone in advance for participating in this post. I think it's important that we all have accurate information so nobody is taking the word of a troll only here to stir up shit.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 4:18 pm 
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Hey Squeeky,

I understand your frustrations here. We have been dealing with these guys coming here trying to "save" all of us poor uneducated suboxforum people for a long time now. One thing I have learned is that they don't deal in facts, and it helps nothing to try to point out their uncorroborated stories. They will just get angry and keep coming back like a child when they are told they are wrong.

It is interesting to me that almost every one of them comes here claiming to be the foremost expert in suboxone treatment. They will usually point out how educated they are in the matter and give us all glowing reports of their high level of education and tell how many graduate degrees they have earned over the years as evidence of their superior minds. But for some reason they can never manage to get through more than two sentences without repeatedly misspelling commonly used words and have a very hard time stringing together complete thoughts so that their writing makes any sense.

But what the heck do I know? I'm just a "sub-sucking idiot" with a high school diploma...


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 Post subject: Acute/Post acute
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 4:31 pm 
i think with suboxone there is a huge misunderstanding of what withrawl is.....with suboxone you may not have any withdrawl what so ever if you tapper and discontinue quickly after starting....you may experience some acute withdrawl folloed by post acute withdrawl but its not likely, with suboxone the acute/post acute is very blured. for me i was on suboxone WAAAAAAY to long about 3 years and when i stopped i had discomfort that did go on for at least a year. there was an ocasion where i took suboxone for a month and quit with no withdrawl at all....but of course i relapsed on oxy and when i went back to suboxone i stayed on it for a couple years...i tapered down to .5 mg and when i stopped it took about a week before i felt the old withdrawl syptoms sneak up on me.....they are nothing like full blown withdrawl but they linger for quite a long time and can be very very dificult to deal with. after experiencing all this i would say that if i relapsed again on oxycontin i would go to rehab and just detox, that way you can get back to feeling good in a short period of time.....but again its not realy acute withdrwal followed by post acute withdrawl with suboxone it is basicaly just intense post acute withdrawl the whole time and for me it took about a year to get through the discomfort im not sure how i would have paid rent if i wasnt getting disability payments......


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 4:55 pm 
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I started on 12mgs and jumped at like 8ish.I can't say for sure because I took 4mg for like a month or more before jumping.

My physical stuff like rls, no sleep, growing bones feeling, ect. Lasted from Thanksgiving day until new years eve. So just over a month. Honest.

After that, I had about 10 months off of suboxone and there were still paws present. No motivation at all for any reason, severe depression, ect. Not to mention the cravings and addiction problems that were very much alive and well. Because I didn't do really anything but take suboxone for just over a year before stopping my addiction issues ate me alive because I didn't know how to handle them at all.

So. After a several month long relapse that started small but ended worse than ever.... I got back on suboxone.

This time around I have actually tried things and have been very open minded to new things and ideas about recovery.

I am now a firm believer that I will be on this stuff for the foreseeable future maybe the rest of my life. And there is nothing wrong with that in my mind. It keeps me clean, happy, motivated, in a great job, in a great relationship, and nameless other things.

After my year long experience off of suboxone (the only time I ever quit longer than a month or so) I really learned alot about myself and what I want out of my life.

I don't under the folks that say you shouldn't take suboxone for many many many years because it ruins your life, makes you lifeless, and other claims of horrible endings. I have taken suboxone for just about 2 years this time and haven't had a bad experience with suboxone at all. I think what these folks described sounds more like my life without suboxone!

In the end, it's what I think is right because it allows me to live my life the best I can. It also keeps me from using/craving opiates COMPLETELY. I now have almost 15 months without using alcohol or other drugs.... Minus suboxone for those of you who want to be sticklers.... And I have never felt better.


I think jumping is something we all have to do to just see how we feel and where we are with taking suboxone long term.

I did recently find that my opiate use has lowered my testosterone levels by a lot. Suboxone being one of them and the only true side effect. But. I started injections about 3 weeks ago and I haven't felt this great since ever. I started using opiates pretty heavily at 14 so I didn't really ever have normal t levels and just didn't know it could cause the things it did.



So.



IMHO.



I think for me.... Suboxone is a part of my life. I don't want to get off of it for many reasons but if it ain't broke don't fix it right? Also. I have found that the best way for me to do this whole recovery thing is through NA meetings, new hobbies, good recovery friends, and complete abstinence from drugs and alcohol. Minus suboxone if you want to look at it that way. I think many posters struggle on here for reasons they don't want to look at or think about. Honest. Like drinking still or doing other drugs besides opiates because they only have an opiate issue. Then when it catches up to them.... They can't admit that the drugs could be causing them problems... So it's the suboxone.

We have to be honest with ourselves about these things. It has ruined me in the past and also rendered my suboxone useless.

Food for thought.


MM1


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 Post subject: PAWS
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:47 pm 
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Thabk you so much for helping set the record straight moviemaker! I really needed to hear that because I will admit I was starting to get a little worried about hearing people saying they were in withdrawal for over a year.

One quick question though if you don't mind answering it. Do you think your paws, the lack of motivation and depression, you experienced for ten months after stopping suboxone was related to the low testosterone or was it all just regular paws?

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:52 pm 
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I know for a fact that there were paws for around 3 months or so. But. I do believe the rest could be a result of the testosterone. But don't quote me on that.


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 Post subject: What is the cause?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:29 pm 
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Reading these for the past year, about the PAWS and suboxone withdrawal, I have often wondered . .

If one were to detox without suboxone are the symptoms the same?

Is there anyone who has gotten clean and stayed clean withour Sub, that does or does not have the same symptoms?

Before I decided to go thru the program, I came to the realization that there was going to be a time where I stop Sub and may struggle. But will it be easier or harder because of the suboxone?

So my questions is, if you stop using without Sub do you not still have the possible long term recovery period?

Or does Sub really make it worse?

I am not asking to start a fight, this is just something that I have wondered since reading the posts about the horrible withdrawal from Sub. Is it reallly the Sub, or is it the opiate addiction itself?

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:42 pm 
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You are onto something here....

I can honestly say that I think heroin type opiates don't seem to have long long paws usually because the physical wd is so horrible.
So. I am saying that I think most of what paws is is psychological stuff. I bet if we all read stuff online that said suboxone was really easy to get off of and had little to no paws... It wouldn't be as bad. But instead we prepare ourselves for the absolute worst experience ever. So we are looking for the bad.

Get what I'm saying?

Getting off of heroin was way way worse than suboxone. And it did have paws that came with it. But more of it was cravings and just addiction eating me up.

Suboxone is just subjective. Depends on how you go into it I think.

We opiate addicts are in an abnormal state when we don't have opiates. So getting off of suboxone could leave us mentally thinking we will never have opiates again. Or. We just feel shitty because we don't have opiates anymore. This is a hell of a disease and this proves it.

Who knows why most say suboxone is worse. Could be tons of things.


But I do think the paws lasts exactly the same. Honest.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:07 pm 
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1. How many mgs were you on and for how long?

I was on 16mg to 24mg of Suboxone for 3 years.

2. How long did you taper? And by how many mgs at each drop?

I tapered for about 3 weeks, made it down to about 8mg, then jumped. (Yes, I'm an idiot!! :lol: )

3. Once stopped HOW LONG DID YOUR ACCUTE WITHDRAWAL LAST?

My heavy Acute lasted 30 days, light acute ended on day 118.

4. You can also include after accute withdrawal ended did you experience PAWS and if so for how long?

Heavy PAWS ended at about 9.5 months. Light PAWS ended around the 1.5 year mark. I need to say that my PAWS was intertwined with not knowing how to live a life without drugs. I was depressed and had shitty motivation partly due to not knowing how to undepress (is that a word?) and motivate myself.

My experience, like many of those who jump from insanely high doses of Suboxone, is extreme. I have friends who tapered and jumped from .5mg or so who had about 5 or 6 days of light wd and no PAWS to speak of.

Dodging the "Suboxone wd from hell" bullet is fairly straightforward.......taper, taper, taper.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:24 pm 
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Thanks guys s much for your reaponses. I feel much better about the stopping subs situation. I have no plan on stopping anytime in the near future, but I figure it will have to happen someday.

I think one of the reasons people always think suboxone is way worse than short acting opiates is because they have made it over a year clean after atopping subs and maybe they didn't have that much clean time after ever stopping their DOC? Just a thought.

Another reason also is because maybe they have forgotten what real withdrawal is like. While in addiction we go through withdrawal on a regular basis. Whenever we either ran out of drugs or money to buy the drugs, or maybe you ended up in jail. Hell there was a point in time where I woke up every morning in withdrawal. So I think our bodies in some way got used to withdrawal. Then comes suboxone and we spend years never even experiencing a minute of withdrawal. Maybe we just aren't as prepared or it as we used to be. Once again just a thought.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:16 am 
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I wanted to point out that even though my wd was pretty long, by no means was I sucking pavement the whole time. The first 30 days sucked pretty bad, but after that I was back at work and functioning.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:30 pm 
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1. How many mgs were you on and for how long?

8-24mg for 6 years (mostly above 16mgs..)



2. How long did you taper? And by how many mgs at each drop?

My last year was spent getting from (oh I dunno) about 12mg down to 1.5.. I had one final day at only .5mgs but I never stabilized at that dose.



3. Once stopped HOW LONG DID YOUR ACCUTE WITHDRAWAL LAST?

Honestly, it is all blurred together but I would say between 1-2 months (sweating, rls, sneezing, tummy problems, severe temperature issues.. etc) But, like Romeo pointed out, I wasn't laid up in bed that whole time.. I powered through it.



4. You can also include after accute withdrawal ended did you experience PAWS and if so for how long?

My "paws" went away in month 6 (IMO).. about to enter 10 months off sub, I think, if I did the math right..lol

I've definitely had cravings here and there but not consistently. Other than that, mentally and physically I am feeling fine.


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 Post subject: Other Observations
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:44 pm 
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A couple of things from me.

One, my older brother who took Oxy's for pain and abused them, (not like us though) went into a detox/rehab facility after getting a DUI. Terrible withdrawals after the one week of Suboxone they gave him. So far it has been 8 months and he is still having sleep trouble and PAWS. Luckily, the court system is making him go to AA/NA and he is doing good with that.

Two, it's been said time and time again. No two people are the same. Everyone will experience their own withdrawal symptoms at different stages. Some a lot, some in the middle, and some very little. Just read all the taper and jumping threads here or at other Suboxone sites and you'll see.

Remember, a lot of our w/d issues are mental. The brain does not like to be starved of its normal opiate diet. It rebels, and we think we're dying.

Just my 2¢

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:41 pm 
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Agreed Rule. It's sometimes forgotten that no matter what none of us will have the exact same experience.

I think it's good to keep posting our experiences with certain things though so that many can learn and get ideas from them.

Other times though I think posting some experiences are bad for the most part. Those that post horror stories about getting off suboxone and paws and what not. It just makes it worse for anyone reading it getting ready to jump.

Just my opinion.

Because I think alot of this wd is psychological stuff.

Being completely off opiates and being in an abnormal state after a long period of normal living.

Idk. Just some food for thought.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:09 pm 
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I think it's important we all share our experiences truthfully, whether good or bad.

We've had members here before who had read the rosy stories of Suboxone wd being easy, but they didn't read the fine print about having to taper and they got slammed with wd and they were left disillusioned with the whole process. Cammiek and ericis come to mind. Cammiek gave up, ericis hung on and made it, but he had made the comment to me several times that he wished he knew what he was in for when he quit Suboxone.

When I quit Suboxone, I wanted to know what I was in for so I could "gear up" and be ready for it. Unfortunately, when I quit, I didn't find very good info about Suboxone wd and once day 10 hit, I was ready to throw in the towel and give up. Thank the Lord I didn't give up, but soldiered on and made it.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:31 pm 
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Very true.

When you put it that way, I can deff agree and see where you are coming from.

We need the bad experiences as well as the good.

However.

I guess it's the folks that over exaggerate the bad. False information. Like saying suboxone is terrible and ruined my life because I am so depressed now because of it.

You know what I mean?

We can't always blame suboxone for every bad feeling while we take it.

Idk if I made any sense with that, but you should be able to get the jist of it lol.


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 Post subject: Not blaming Sub
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:50 pm 
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I agree with not blaming sub. I hit my one year on sub at the beginning of March. Every once in a while, I would feel like crap and think, I bet the sub is doing this, I bet its because of the drugs. But then I started thinking, maybe its just being human, we have good days and bad days. Even though when I first started sub for months I don't remember any bad days, and then I got sick and felt awful. This happens occasionally.

Then a thought occured to me about 3 months ago. . . maybe I am sick because I am human. Maybe I am just sick. A bug, a cold, a virus. Being on my feet too long one day. Doing to much, wearing myself out. Then I started to pay attention to it. And I realized I am not sick because of the sub, but in spite of it, so to say. Now when I don't feel well, I have realized, I probably would have been sick with or without any of the drugs or subs, because sometimes people get sick.

I also agree that we are all different. No 2 of us are going to have the same experience good or bad. And that's fine, what is great is that we are all here for each other, thats what matters. This is just my opinion. And thank you all for being here, like I have said before, I was here long before I was here (LOL). You guys helped me take the first step and didn't even know it. And just in case anyone reads this as you "talked me into sub" I am a grown up, and researched all of my options, before deciding to start suboxone, and BOY and I glad I did.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:45 pm 
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I literally just was with a girl that was saying she needed more suboxone because she felt like shit all the time now... But FORGOT she had just quit smoking!


Shows how most are quick to blame the suboxone first. For lots of things that aren't caused by it!


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:37 am 
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When I jumped off Suboxone at 1-2mg, I had withdraws for around 10days-two weeks. Thats it. And I stayed off it for a year and a half. No PAWS. So I hope this helps tell the story of how everyone is different. If I had a year of withdraws, I would of gotten right back on it so I wouldn't be suffering.


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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 4:51 pm 
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Thanks for all the replays you guys! It's pretty amazing how different our bodies are. It's good to hear stories from people who don't have an agenda.

Thanks for all your help!

Squeaky

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