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 Post subject: Re: woops
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:18 am 
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jenzo wrote:
Congrats to both of you!
Ladder-I didnt feel anything negative from the drop to 2mg until like a week later, then had the EXACT same thing as you-a delayed wd experience.
Weird huh?
Good luck guys!

sorry i meant to post that AFTER i quoted....lol.
Love reading your posts-good job you guys-It is inspiration for sure!


Yeah, that is such a weird thing that starts happening, huh? It feels like a drop is okay and then you get symptoms a week in and it's a surprise.

Setmefree, you are one tough woman. I'm pretty sure you will be able to hang in at .25 if you really want to do it. Here's the upside: if you stick at .25 until you feel completely fine, any further drops/jumps will be ten times easier. If you push it even further than you already are, you may burn yourself out. I understand embracing the symptoms, but man, that eventually gets a little old, lol! The sleep thing can kinda suck. It comes and goes too. I really try to wear myself out everyday, but even after doing that yesterday, I woke up at 2 a.m. and that was just it for me. However, then the night after a bad sleep, you frequently may be so pooped that you sleep better, so there's that silver lining again!

I seriously dislike this leg pain! Man, I was so sure I would not get it.....why do some people get it and some don't? I don't find that any OTC pain meds work all that well either for it. The only thing that works is doing something physical to distract yourself. Thank goodness it isn't an everyday thing. My doctor actually told me that there's a happy middle ground for dealing with it, as far as working out goes. If you work out too little, it won't help. If you work out too much, it can make it worse. This seems to be true for me, anyway.

Keep it up, SMF!!!

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 10:34 am 
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SMF,

I'm glad you're taking a breather. You rocketed down to .25mg like no one's business!! Take a break then get after it again. We're here for ya. I'm still on shore, but now I'm jumping up and down like a maniac, waving my arms around because I can see you are SO close!! :D

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 11:45 pm 
Wow...I can't believe it's been three months since I last updated this thread! A lot has happened since then and I didn't do a very good job (well...I didn't at all) of keeping any notes on how I've been progressing during this timeframe. So I'll have to rely on memory as best I can.
So when I left off, I was at ~0.25mg/day of Suboxone and feeling more intense w/d symptoms setting in. After a few weeks of that and seeing very little improvement in terms of 'stabilizing' at that dose and becoming w/d symptom free, I became fairly convinced that it wasn't going to happen that way for me.
Right about that same time, I was hit with some very distressing news from my adult son. He didn't do anything (He's perfect, you see...lol) but something was done to him, something very unforseen and hurtful and it sort of set us all into a tailspin. I needed to travel 500 miles immediately to be with him for support and I was in no position to be all out of sorts and in withdrawal at the same time. Just not worth it. So I did not try to decrease my dose and sometimes would bump up and take another 0.25mg during that week or two I was staying with him.
When I returned home and saw my doctor and discussed with him what had been going on, we discussed some alternative ways to shore up my taper and possible make my detox a little easier. Between the two of us, we decided that I would be allowed to do a trial of tramadol with my taper. He gave me a very limited supply after I assured him that I know all about the pitfalls of the drug and that tramadol was NEVER a drug of choice for me and NEVER gave me any sort of an opiate high.
I am choosing purposefully to not share the specifics of how my doctor and I decided to work the regimen out because I do not believe that this could work for many opiate addicts, and in fact, I think it could be detrimental for some to even try to use tramadol to help them finish a Sub taper. But....for me.....it has worked thus far. What I believe the very short course of tramadol did for me was to allow me to finish 'washing' the buprenorphine off my receptors. It eliminated the stacking of bupe and allowed me to be able to space my bupe doses out far enough to sort of lose that incredibly long half life of bupe also. Therefore, giving my brain a break from that steady stream of the potent opiate, bupe, which I have fed it for over two years. I did experience some acute withdrawal from the bupe nonetheless, as I did not take nearly enough tramadol to eradicate that. I had pretty severe GI pain/diarrhea....multiple episodes over a few different days. I had moderate to severe leg pain upon waking for several days. I had moderate episodes of anxiety at times and some days of mild depression and low motivation. Compared to full agonist withdrawal....a piece of cake!
Got through to having about a week and a half of no bupe and no tramadol and was doing pretty fine, except for some mild sleep disturbances and mild occassional anxiety attacks, until.....Bad news again...a close family member of mine has just been diagnosed with an aggressive, infiltrating breast Ca with mets. Let the meltdowns begin! I had a come-apart mentally and being fresh off everything and still feeling pretty fragile and having no more Klonopin (which I had used for comfort during detox) I fell off the wagon, so to speak. The thing is....I still wasn't exactly home free with my detox/quit, as I still had periods during each day of feeling mild w/d and had thought about dosing with a little Sub at times. Well, this time I did. I only took 0.25mg and within about an hour and a half, I felt so much better.
I haven't done anything against my doctor's orders. He has said along that it takes as long as it takes. And if I need a little dose of Sub once a week for a few more months...that's fine with him.
So, overall, I feel like I'm in a pretty golden place.....I'm all but completely off the Sub. I'm happy with where I'm at. I feel pretty good. I've just got to be functioning at a high level coming up here for the next couple months as we deal with what's going on with my son and with my family member's Ca diagnosis and treatment plan. Compared to things like that, being on a tiny bit of Sub off and on for a little longer doesn't bother me much. Especially because I feel so much better without being on high dose Sub every single day and having all the unnessary build up of the drug in my system.
So there's the update. It may sound crazy to some, it may make no sense to some, but it's working for me. I don't recommend it to others, as we all have to do this the way that works for us and the way our doctors will work it with us. But I feel good now....pretty darn good!


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 7:54 am 
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Setmefree, this is such an uplifting thread and I'm really happy that things are going so well for you. You really do sound different than the previous times you tapered - it's like you had a breakthrough and you are really ready and certain this time. Good for you. I think I pictured tapering as an almost linear process where I would go from a high dose to a very low dose and then off. In reality it was a one step forward two steps back process for me in a lot of ways. First I went from a fairly high dose to a very low dose abruptly because I thought I was cut off from Sub. And then I went off, on and off my low dose a couple of times. Each time I went off I planned on it being for good and then when I used a small dose of Sub I felt like it was a setback (or a failure), but I can see now that it wasn't. It's all just part of the process. It's not a race, it's a goal that we work towards while trying to keep ourselves as physically and mentally healthy as possible.
I'm sorry your family is going through that stuff, and I pray for their healing. I think it's good that you are open to maybe needing a small dose of Sub occasionally. For me an "all or nothing" mentality is a set up for failure. Keep up the good work, and I hope you will be back to update us on your progress.
Blessings,
Lilly


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 8:14 am 
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setmefree wrote:
What I believe the very short course of tramadol did for me was to allow me to finish 'washing' the buprenorphine off my receptors. It eliminated the stacking of bupe and allowed me to be able to space my bupe doses out far enough to sort of lose that incredibly long half life of bupe also. Therefore, giving my brain a break from that steady stream of the potent opiate, bupe, which I have fed it for over two years.


You've been doing really well, and it's admirable how you've stuck to your decision. With every update, you've moved forward, and despite the "slips" you spoke of, in the big picture, you're still miles ahead.

I hear you about the Tramadol. Here in Oz detox clinics would use Doloxene, a really mild full agonist, to taper off methadone & buprenorphine. It still surprises me how those techniques didn't seem to just delay the bupe detox, if you know what I mean. Buprenorphine is a very potent drug I agree, but it has unique qualities that make it so useful in treating addiction.

I can't stress though to be careful about taking Suboxone when things get stressful. It would probably be better for your recovery if you dosed only when things were calm, and you tried to work through the stressful & difficult times on your own. The line can easily get blurred when dosing occasionally, between medicating the withdrawal, and medicating life's stresses.

Something that's really helped me with the aches & restless legs is Ibuprofen. It's the painkiller they prescribe for that symptom in detox.

Good luck with it all, and I hope to see you post in the "rear view mirror" forum some time soon. :D

tj


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