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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 6:57 pm 
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I want to nip this in the bud before it gets out of control again.
I tried Naltrexone for a while but I hate the way it made me feel.
I was on ~400mg morphine/day for the last few months of my habit and detoxed with bupe at an inpatient place. I thought it was fantastic because I didn't get high off of it, I felt like I did before I all of this.

I've been doing mostly OK and my last dose of bupe was 3 months ago today.
The problem is, some/most days I feel like I am losing my mind and I NEED dope, to the point of stealing drugs from my dad (he just had surgery for lung cancer... I'm fucking ashamed) and buying methadone and morphine. I've probably fucked up like a dozen times. The receptionist or whoever answered the phone said that usually he treats people who come in already withdrawing. But I'm not withdrawing, I'm just too damn weak to keep myself off of the shit.
I feel like I'm in the middle of breaking down slowly and everything is fucking overwhelming. And now that I just got a decent job, I fear that I'm gonna end up blowing money on dope because part of the reason I've been able to stay mostly clean was because I couldn't afford it!

I've tried cutting all the people I've used with out of my life, I don't go places I know I'll be around it. I'm trying really fucking hard and my psychiatrist tried all sorts of antidepressants on me, they all made me feel like shit except for Wellbutrin which helps a little with my motivation and I don't feel so overwhelmed, but I'm not okay. This is not the way I want to die. I'm tired of constantly letting my friends and family down. I've tried Gabapentin, Lyrica, Naltrexone, among other things to help, without any success. I plan on giving the sub Dr. my psychiatrist's name and phone number and vice versa because I think maybe if they had some communication it would be beneficial.

I just don't want to spend all this money and be turned down for treatment. I don't want to get high, because I'll only feel guilty and that sends me downhill even faster. My idea was just a very low dose of suboxone as maintenance to block out other opiates and to suppress cravings until I can get my life and mind back together. I'm just terribly frustrated, I thought that once withdrawal was over, I'd be OK, and I've been through w/d several times just to go get high once I felt better. This is harder than withdrawal because at least withdrawal ends soon enough even though it seems like forever.

I'm terribly anxious that I'm just going to go in there and there won't be anything he'd be willing to do for me because I've tried everything else I could think of. I would have done this sooner after my last 4 day binge but I felt like I'd just be swapping one addiction for another, but I'm not going to feel guilty about this because I've got a problem I can't handle on my own right now. I don't know what to expect when I go in, I don't know what he'll think about bupe for someone who isn't exactly dependent but still as addicted as before.

I'd greatly appreciate any advice, experience, anything, I'm so anxious about this...

thanks,
psilo


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:08 pm 
Hi psilo. I know there have been others on this forum who have started (or re-started) sub at a time when they were not physically dependent on opiates. For some it's for relapse prevention and for others it was to deal with PAWS. Hopefully, when you give the doc your full drug history as well as explain that you are on the brink of a relapse he will be willing to treat you. Hang in there, and I think you will hear from others on this forum who have been in similar circumstances.
Take care,
Lilly


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:24 pm 
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thanks. I'm gonna tell him EVERYTHING I can think of and hope he makes the correct judgement (even if it's against bupe)
I don't want to live this way anymore and this isn't how I want to die. I'm scared of all of this

is it a problem if I smoke marijuana? I can stop, I don't do it a whole lot, if I just don't smoke for a few days it won't show up on a drug screen so should I avoid marijuana for a while?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:00 pm 
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Hey psilo.. Your predicament sounds just like the one I was in about 2 months ago. I had just started a new job, didn t have a full on habit but was using every few days and constantly obsessing about opiates when I didn't have them. I finally realized after 4 years of this I was going to either go insane and lose my job real fast just like all of my previous jobs, or I better try getting on Suboxone. I have now been sober for 51 days, held my job, and basically feel normal again. I hardly ever think about using and when I do it is an easy thought to get rid of. I have only been taking a small dose 1.5-2mg a day as I thought this would be best for my situation. Contrary to my belief I have just found out this may not be the best way to go but it has kept me sober this long so that is all that matters at this point. You can read my post title "Suboxone Myth or Fact" in the dosing section and read what people said about the low dose issue. Hope this helps
Ryan


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:10 pm 
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Hi psilo and welcome to the forum. I'm really glad you found us and I hope you find as much support here as I have. Even though you're not currently dependent, I think that considering your history and relapse rate that a sub doc should have no problem taking you on as a patient. But that's just my opinion. I've read stories from others here that were in a similar situation to yours and they were induced just fine.

I can hear the desperation in your words and how very ready you are to get into remission. Your plan to be honest with the doctor is a good one. On the issue of marijuana, well, if I were you I'd lay off it until you see the doctor. Many sub docs make their patients sign a contract saying that they won't use any illegal drugs, benzos, etc. You don't want that to keep you out of the treatment program.

I might have missed it, but when is your appointment? Keep us posted on how you're doing, OK? Take care.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:37 pm 
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hatmaker510 wrote:
Hi psilo and welcome to the forum. I'm really glad you found us and I hope you find as much support here as I have. Even though you're not currently dependent, I think that considering your history and relapse rate that a sub doc should have no problem taking you on as a patient. But that's just my opinion. I've read stories from others here that were in a similar situation to yours and they were induced just fine.

I can hear the desperation in your words and how very ready you are to get into remission. Your plan to be honest with the doctor is a good one. On the issue of marijuana, well, if I were you I'd lay off it until you see the doctor. Many sub docs make their patients sign a contract saying that they won't use any illegal drugs, benzos, etc. You don't want that to keep you out of the treatment program.

I might have missed it, but when is your appointment? Keep us posted on how you're doing, OK? Take care.


I don't know when my appt is because they didn't call me back today. Hopefully they will call me back tomorrow, but I'll be at my first day of work for most of the time the office is open.
I'll lay off the other stuff, but would my clonazepam prescription be an issue? I have it to take as-needed because sometimes I have really severe anxiety and sometimes it just makes me feel dull so I tapered down and take it as-needed now.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:25 pm 
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and thanks guys... this place makes me feel better about going to the dr. because the idea just made me feel guilty
I don't really want to let that get in the way of me getting my life back on track


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 2:39 am 
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I was so anxious but my doctor made me feel much better, he seems really sharp, but he didn't know where opium came from or how I got it, which was kinda bizarre, but neither did the people at the place I detoxed... I don't know why, but why does nobody know anything about opium or poppy tea? It's basically my favorite...
So I got in to see him right away (unfortunately I fucked up and took 120mg of codeine last night but I didn't feel much different) and I told him I smoke bud and am prescribed klonopin but don't abuse it and he said he'd treat me, monday, tuesday, and wednesday he's gonna get me started and figure out how much I should be taking.
I'm really relieved... he said not to take any opiates over the weekend I know I can do that and I won't be taking any klonopin or smoking any weed monday-wednesday. he said he expected I'd be on it 4-6 months.

it sucks though I was thinking about my ex and I would literally trade one of my toes to put some morphine up my nose.
ugh, that's not the answer and suboxone isn't either. thats something I need to get over on my own, I'd still feel hurt about it up to the point of nodding too hard to think anyways
she got into coke and mdma after we broke up... we're both getting clean now and still talk, I just don't like to think about all the things that we did wrong.

I can't really tell my friends I'm going to be on Sub maintenance because either 1. they'll try to steal it, and I'm not talking to that crowd at ALL anymore... or 2. they'll think I'm just giving up.
Only my parents and my two best friends (the only people I can trust to keep secrets) know... I need someone to know because I don't want it to be a surprise if I'm having a hard time and want to talk about it, they both said they don't think any less of me and they are glad to see how hard I've been trying to straighten out. that made me happy

im glad I found this place, most of the people I know fall under the #2 category and think suboxone is just giving up


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:03 am 
Psilo, your post reminded me of myself...I could really feel your misery because I totally lived it. I am so glad your doc listened and got you back on the sub.

I have only been on sub for about three months now...and I cant believe how normal I feel. I have no guilt over using suboxone any more. I don't feel "weak" or like I am "giving up." Suboxone is giving ME the control to learn new ways to cope with life. Since I was 13 when I started using, I never really learned how to deal with anything. The short periods of time in my life I was stone cold sober were awful...I CONSTANTLY thought about drugs and how much better I felt on them. Then I would get on them and fuck up big time.

I finally became so sick of this cycle of doom... At 30 years old, sitting in rehab, I remember thinking, "This is just dumb. I am 30 years old. Time to grow up." Stayed sober and miserable for a while...then guess what? The drinking started, then the drugs started and 3 months ago I am a 38 year old "soccer mom" with a fucking needle of dilaudid in my arm. I am lucky I am not dead.

So dude, what they say about this getting worse is true. The sad part is that I didn't believe it until it happend to me. So I guess I am saying, be proud of yourself. You have a disease and you are doing something about it.

Take care, Kire


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 11:58 am 
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Hi Psilo, I'm glad you found this forum too. suboxone is kind of a complicated medication in my opinion and a lot of people do misunderstand medically-assisted addiction treatment. Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that I read your posts and I can really relate to what you're going through. I've been through a lot of anxiety myself at times wondering if my doctor would want to keep me on sub or not. I've had trouble stablizing too, but sub has still helped me a lot. I've only been on this forum for a couple of months, but it's really helped me a lot--there's so much information and support available here. so I hope you'll find that to be the case too. I'll be checking back to see how it goes with you, meanwhile just wanted to wish you luck getting started.


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 Post subject: Hi psilo! Oh poppy tea!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 7:09 pm 
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Hi! I am so glad to see you here!

I, too, am addicted to poppy tea. I was drinking about 7-10 pods worth of tea every day, and sometimes double that on the weekends. I did this every day for about a year and a half. I decided to get on Suboxone because the prices of the pods went up so far, that it was to the point where a prescription for Subs without insurance would cost me HALF of what my tea habit was costing me. I wasn't ready to do this. I can relate to you in every way, and I am sure that you will find that everyone here knows exactly what you are going through. I am new to this forum, but I have found so much support here, and so many people that understand me, which is something that I never thought that I would have. Please stay here, read, post, say what you feel and if you need anything, ask. These people here are awesome and will help you with anything that you need! I'm glad you came here:)

STOP being so hard on yourself. You are doing the right thing, 100%! I too felt nervous, and angry at myself, and like a 'failure' when I realized what a pickle i had actually gotten myself into. Well, there's nothing I can do about it. I am an addict and I always will be now, and I have to learn to live with that. If I wasn't on Suboxone right now, I honestly don't know what would have happened to me. I may have even turned to heroin. I feel that i made the right decision. YOU made the right decision. There isn't anything wrong with needing help- especially if the help that you are getting is keeping you out of such a harmful habit. You are going to be just fine. I promise. There is nothing wrong with you or what you are doing to treat your addiction. You need help, you have found help, and you are only going to get better if you take your medication. Don't look at it like you are trading one addiction for another- you aren't. Sure, you may become physically dependent upon Suboxone, but really, it's better than being addicted to pods/morphine, and living the life that most active addicts tend to live. You are now going to feel MUCH more normal. You will not be getting high. You will be having very few cravings, and you will be able to learn to deal with life without turning to substances for comfort.

I haven't felt this good in years. I was 100% NOT ready to do this, either. I was still happy in my warm little opium blanket. I was self medicating for a number of reasons, mainly anxiety, depression, and chronic back pain, so I was totally dependent upon that tea to survive, to be normal. I was sad to give it up. Turned out to be the best thing that i have ever done for myself, though, and I feel awesome now. My anxiety is under control, I am happy, and while my back hurts a bit, it is totally tolerable. I have even been drinking coffee out of old tea mugs! I don't have any urge to drink tea anymore, and barely even think about it. If I didn't have Suboxone, I would probably still be in withdrawal, or on something less favorable than opium tea. I would be craving, and probably caving in to it. I don't feel bad about being on Suboxone; so many people are on medications for any number of afflictions/ ailments, and they are dependent upon those medications ot feel some semblance of 'normal'. Why should I feel like I am any different than anyone else?

Sorry to write so much. What you wrote really reminded me of myself, down to the preferred substance of abuse. It got to me, and hurt a little to remember what I felt like when I was where you are right now. You WILL feel better:) You deserve to be happy, and to not have to spend all day thinking about using. Suboxone will allow you to do that. As for your ex, well, I'm sorry that happened to you:( I'm glad that the two of you are friends, and that you are able to comfort each other and be there for each other through something that you have both experienced. However, if the situation is stressing you out, maybe you should take a break from talking with the ex for just a few days while you adjust to your medication? Also, try to do things that you like. Things that you did before using, before the ex. Keep your head up, keep busy, and take care of yourself. You are doing the right thing here, and you deserve to be better. You aren't making yourself worse by seeking treatment, please don't feel that way. You are recovering from an addiction, which is something that cannot be removed from you in any easy way, or any way at all. You have to deal with it. I have to deal with it. Don't define yourself by your addiction- there's so much more to you than that. Sorry for the novel, haha. I <3 typing! If there is anything that i can do to help you, or if you just need to vent or to talk to someone, feel free to contact me whenever you need to. Good luck with your recovery, and congratulations on making a decision that will improve the quality of your life. If you look at it as something that is freeing you from mental anguish instead of something that is keeping you dependent on a chemical/substance, you might feel better. It's the truth, too; it is freeing you from some amount of suffering, and that is invaluable.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 2:58 pm 
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thanks for the encouragement and kind words, guys!
I saw my doctor today and he wrote me for two 2mg suboxone pills, he wants me to take half, wait a little and take the other half, and take the 2nd pill before bed.
I've already taken the first two halves and I feel... pretty normal. Like I did a year and a half ago. I'm not high, I feel sane and I am so grateful.
Thank God. :D


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:02 pm 
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Psilo, that's great! I'm so glad to hear it worked out for you and that you're feeling well. I'm glad you like your doc and it sounds like he started you off on the lowest dose possible. Congratulations and keep us posted on how you're doing.

HAT

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:23 pm 
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after my 2nd dose before bed I think maybe 2-3mg a day is better. I went for a walk after I took my 2nd tablet around 10pm to go smoke my last few cigarettes before I quit (which is today) and I started to feel very sweaty (before I had a smoke) and after I lit my cigarette I just threw up. :roll: Whatever happens I'm sure it'll all even out in the next few days.
either way I'm glad I feel better!
on a side note, whenever I'd do any other opiate, I'd FIEND for cigarettes, but I could really care less... 8)


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 4:24 am 
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so it's been about a month on suboxone. my dose was raised to 12mg/day but most days I feel fine on 4mg, though under some circumstances it can take as much as 12mg to help. my doctor is a psychologist and he wants to replace my psych but I only came to him for my opioid problem and I have a good psych who understands how I react to different meds (this sub doctor wanted me to switch from benzos as-needed to an antidepressant... I've tried every class and they have made me self-injure or get very depressed and withdrawn and agitated)
so I told him I'm keeping my psychiatrist
but its all working out pretty good


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 7:53 am 
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I'm not sure how I missed this thread the first time, but I just wanted to chime in and congratulate you, psilo, on your achievement. Well done, sir. Now comes the hard part - getting clean and getting on suboxone is pretty easy, relatively speaking. Now you have to dig in to your brain a bit and deal with WHY you were getting high and try to get a handle on those triggers and issues that have lead you to drugs in the past. It's heard work, but the good news is, since you're taking suboxone, you can do that work and not have to worry so much about relapsing.

Hang in there, man, and keep us updated, ok?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 7:53 am 
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I'm getting here a little late on this post but I am really glad you decided to go into the doctor and am also happy it is working out for you. I was in the same situation not so long ago and it was extremely difficult to go back on suboxone when I wasn't dependent on anything. I too felt like it was the best decision and am very glad I did it. In my opinion, the anxiety is a big part of drug addiction. It seems most of us have some kind of anxiety issue. Your sub doctor may be trying to address this and is thinking your current psych may not understand addiction and anxiety as well, although does understand the drug interactions. I would suggest reading a couple of books that have been very helpful for me. One is called "It's Easier Than You Think" by Sylvia Boorstein and the other is called "When Things Fall Apart" by Pema Chodron. They are both very short and easy reads and inexpensive. They were loaned to me by my therapist and then my doctor asked about them and now she orders them and loans them to her new sub patients.

I hope you continue to do well on the sub and that you keep posting and letting us know how you are doing.

Take care,
Cherie

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 1:53 pm 
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I was not "actively dependent" on pain pills when I first went to my Sub doc. HOWEVER, I had terrible PAWS and was barely making it, always doing illegal stuff to get a day or two's worth of pills. Luckily my doctor is very understanding and put me right on Sub, and has said repeatedly that I can stay on it as long as I need it. It's been almost a year now, and no relapses - opioid or otherwise!
Good luck,
James


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 9:56 pm 
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"this sub doctor wanted me to switch from benzos as-needed to an antidepressant"

Every person and situation can be unique. There is no way to diagnose and properly advise someone through posts on the Internet and I'm not qualified to do so anyhow so it would not matter. However, I do want to say that painting with a broad brush and all things being equal, your sub doctor sounds like a wise man (or woman). I really think he only has your best interests in mind when he suggests an antidepressant in place of benzos. For many people, this is the best way to go. Again, I have no idea if that is the case for you. I just sense that you don't want to give up the benzos so any doctor that wants you to do that is not likely to find you as a fan. Honestly, it's good that your Sub doctor actually allows you to continue benzos while he prescribes you Sub. There seems to be a lot of docs out there who drug test and would not allow their patients to be on benzos while taking Sub. There are many reasons for this including increased danger when combining opiates with benzos.

Either way, you may not want to be so quick to reject this doctor’s suggestions. I am not familiar with the books that Jack recommended to you but you very well may gain some great information from them. Anything that helps you to better understand the concern for any of us to be on benzos is probably well worth the time it takes to read. Again, most of the time, we are much better off taking antidepressants rather than addictive sedatives. That is just the way it is.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 10:43 pm 
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donh wrote:
"this sub doctor wanted me to switch from benzos as-needed to an antidepressant"

Every person and situation can be unique. There is no way to diagnose and properly advise someone through posts on the Internet and I'm not qualified to do so anyhow so it would not matter. However, I do want to say that painting with a broad brush and all things being equal, your sub doctor sounds like a wise man (or woman). I really think he only has your best interests in mind when he suggests an antidepressant in place of benzos. For many people, this is the best way to go. Again, I have no idea if that is the case for you. I just sense that you don't want to give up the benzos so any doctor that wants you to do that is not likely to find you as a fan. Honestly, it's good that your Sub doctor actually allows you to continue benzos while he prescribes you Sub. There seems to be a lot of docs out there who drug test and would not allow their patients to be on benzos while taking Sub. There are many reasons for this including increased danger when combining opiates with benzos.

Either way, you may not want to be so quick to reject this doctor’s suggestions. I am not familiar with the books that Jack recommended to you but you very well may gain some great information from them. Anything that helps you to better understand the concern for any of us to be on benzos is probably well worth the time it takes to read. Again, most of the time, we are much better off taking antidepressants rather than addictive sedatives. That is just the way it is.


Good advice, Donh. I couldn't agree more! When I decided to take the Suboxone and get my life together, I vowed not to take other medications/substances with a known risk of abuse. Therefore, no benzos, no Ambien-like sleep aids, and no ADHD drugs (Ritalin, Adderall). I just think that taking any of these drugs raises the risk of relapse even if the substance is not my drug of choice. As an addict, it would be very easy for me to come to depend on another class of addictive prescription drugs.

My Sub doctor has never drug tested me, but what's more important is that I know in my heart that I don't have to fear or cheat a random drug test.

If you can use benzos without an issue, more power to you. But you need to really take a hard look at yourself and see if maybe you are suppressing/avoiding negative emotions by taking them. The most important thing is to be honest with yourself and honest with your doctor(s).

Peace,
J

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