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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:13 pm 
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:roll: I've read some of the posts which are very encouraging! I attempted a taper some months back (working with a very openminded and caring Suboxone Dr) but we decided I'd better back off until life slowed down a bit (as if that is EVER really going to happen! lol). We were buying new house, moving, major life stuff and I was just not in a good space to be off the SUB or even on the low low dose I was taking (between 100 and 200 mcg daily). Anyhow, I have to say that I think Suboxone is a life saver and a blessing and for some (like my hubby) who have struggled for years and years with hard core opiate addiction (he was clean for 8 yrs and got sucked back in a couple yrs ago and I ended up joining him on a 3 month binge which we both regret so much... I never understood or had the right compassion and empathy for how strong opiate addiction and withdrawl is; I was judgemental of him and others until I got caught up myself. In 3 short months I had a major habit which included crack and it absolutely brought me to my knees. I ended up with a very unethical sub doc who was downright mentally abusive (because he was the only one with a slot and who would take my ins). Hubby's Dr. would talk to me and was very helpful, but could only take hubby because of the "cap" on patients and Dr did a favor taking him because he was a patient from many years back. I'm trying to keep this short but I never seem able to do that, sorry. Anyhow, this wonderful Doc did take me as just a regular patient and we worked on a taper plan together. He was kind enough to prescribe some withdrawl meds for me for whenever I was ready. I take Neurontin, Clonodine, Bentyl (for stomache cramps), otc anti-diarhea, ibuprofin, my regular meds (Wellbutrin, Synythroid, Zoloft), Ativan and Ambien as needed, and GABA and L Tyrosene (suggested detox supplements) and various multivitamins and supplements. I'm 12 days completely off my suboxone (I had tapered for a couple mos. down to 200 mcg daily) and I'm just feeling not too good; it seems like it gets worse each day instead of better - so I've backed off all the supplements thinking maybe its just too much medication, and I take the bare minimum of my "as needed" meds. Hubby says its normal, that I'm doing good, I'm just so in awe of how lingering opiate withdrawl is! The GI issues and chills, lethargy, sweating at night and just general low grade misery wear me down, but hearing its normal and that it will get better in a couple weeks probably keeps me going. It makes me see how we opiate addicts have such a hard time sticking it out and not using again - this is def. the worst kind of withdrawl imo. Alchohol was my old doc up until I that 3 month binge so I had those awful and dangerous withdrawls from alcohol but this is a totally different animal! For me, I guess its just the lingering ickiness... and I realize i sound like a big baby and I need to suck it up (which I AM! I''m not giving in nomatter what). For me, the side effects of sub outweighed the positive and I do go to meetings, work a program, etc. so sub has made it possible to stop the opiates, get time to work on me (almost a year now), and give me an easier softer landing with a taper. For my hubby, there are side effects we don't like but it keeps him clean and allows him to function and feel somewhat normal and not want opiates... Doc says it's a "safe place for him" so I fully support his sub maintenance indefinately. Sorry so long - one last thing: my tongue is really sore and raw which i think might be from dehydration and extreme dry mouth, so I drink gatorade but has anyone had that symptom? And night sweats, when do they stop? I'd like to hear how you guys did it - I read about your success but can you give a bit of detail about your process? Thanks to anyone who takes the time to read this long damned post and offer some advice and experience, strength, hope?! :?:


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:13 pm 
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Hi aquasun,

I know my wd symptoms didn't peak until about day 10. I, like you, had bought all kinds of crap to take during my wd, but none of it really worked except for the Clonidine. After a week or two I ended up throwing all the 'supplements' in the garbage.

Sub wd is quite drawn out. The symptoms you mention are quite normal. I didn't experience the tongue thing though. It may be dehydration?

As far as detailing my process of dealing with my wd, I really didn't have a process. I just refused to give up. Finding things to keep your mind busy helps a lot. I love music, so I recorded a few concerts and I would watch those concerts over and over to keep my mind occupied. You are NOT going to want to do this, but you somehow have to convince yourself to do it. Exercise. Exercise. Exercise.

You might not believe this, I know when people would say it to me I didn't believe them, but you will get better. It takes a while, but you'll get better. Keep hanging on. Don't give up!!

Good luck to ya and I hope you keep posting.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:24 am 
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Hang in there...like Romeo says, it will get better. It's been a long time since my jump, but if you want to read about it start with the Liquid Taper thread, and then on the second or third page of that thread there is a link to the thread I started after I stopped the taper and jumped.

I remember that I felt a LOT better at about 30 days off, so you are almost half way there!

And yeah, exercise. Do it. Every day, get sweaty, it will help you so much.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:03 pm 
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First I want to say good for you for getting off opiates as quickly as you did....and I appreciate your honesty in what you learned having gone through it yourself....it IS hard to understand unless someone's been through it, as compassionate as you seem, you probably just couldn't figure out the pull of opiates.

And congrats on the taper off sub. I was on methadone maint for 3 years prior to Sub and I jumped at 75mg and was without for 6 days before starting Sub...and my w/d were so minimal...I was shocked. I did take three 5mg vicodin total during those days just to help a bit...but I doubt it helped and my point is I think our mindset has so much to do with our physical symptoms. I was so sick of methadone and was going off of it no matter what, altho I was a bit afraid...something new, would it work etc. so glad I kept going.

that said, like what's been posted...you're almost there...keep going...it WILL get better. Drink a lot of water, and flush your system...and if you have access to a spa of some kind or hot tub or stream room do that. I did that during w/d from vicodin and it helped. Exercise like everyone says. Easier said than done and have I ever done it during w/d???? NO! I've thought about it, tho...

The tongue thing? No idea.

Not much help here but just wanted to contribute to the support....


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:19 pm 
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Well, that scares me just a tad. :D I was hoping that if I tapered low enough, I wouldn't have to deal with much w/d, but I'm realizing that just isn't the case. I was going to ask how long you were at that low dose of 200 mcg, but I see you said 2 months, right?

I just encourage you to keep at it and realize that everyday you complete is much closer to being all the way through this. You did the hard work and tapered low and stayed there long enough to adjust to it, so you should be feeling good after a month. After another 12 days, you should be feeling much better. You've already done 12 days, so if the next 12 days are no worse and maybe even significantly better, don't you think you can do it?? I'd hope you'd say 'yes'. Please keep updating how you are doing! People like me, who are tapering, benefit so much from your story. It's nice to know what may happen and what we may have to handle.

Good luck!!!!!

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:10 am 
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I was trying to get off a couple of times now. just never made it trough :-( The longest I've been off was 15days and I still had symptoms after jumping from 0.5mg.
anyway what I'm trying to say is that each time after I quit WD , i was thirsty as heLL! so I guess you're dehydrated. force yourself to drink plenty of fluids!


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:42 pm 
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Im the woorst about withdraw. A woosie. I came down from three pills a day to zero. When I got to 6 mg I went slow like a mg every two weeks. When I got to a milligram a day I broke a quarter piece off of it a week till I was down to a quarter of one milligram. If you do this I can't believe you would feel bad. Everybody moves too fast. I didn't miss any work and was only a little grumpy for a while. Clonadine helped for a week or so after that will help

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 3:43 pm 
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Sorry it took so long to get on and update. All the encouragement is appreciated and helps alot. Hubby took me on a beautiful vacation to try to make the detox easier; unfortunately I was pretty miserable the whole 2 wks nomatter how hard I tried to be stoic and not complain. There i was in paradise (Key West, Bahamas, Cruise, etc.) and I think I felt worse because I thought I should have been feeling better!! (if that made sense, lol). Mostly I feel bad that it frustrated him. Anyhow, I'm still sub-free - i think its 45 days now. I don't think I've ever felt so ill in my life - but don't blame the sub detox entirely... I think my brain chemicals got soooo crazy mixed up and messed up and are taking a long time to get normal again. What I'm trying to say (as I did in my original post) is that I am not anti-suboxone at all; I think it's a life saver and for many it might be the answer to keeping opiate addiction in remission. I don't want to come across as blaming sub for my feeling so crummy. I think maybe I have a low threshold for pain, and that the drugs I was doing prior to getting on sub had really messed up my receptors and inflamed an existing diagnosis of "major depression", and that I turned 40 and may be in perimenopause or just getting older and my body has HAD IT with all the abuse. I saw my pcp doctor just to make sure there isn't something else wrong with me and blood tests, etc,. came back fine so maybe I am just being a hypocondriac and a big baby. I force myself to get up and go and accomplish things and try to keep a positive attitude. Basically, I think I'm just getting "beat down" (as hubby calls it) because I keep thinking I should feel almost normal by now and it wears on me that I still feel like crap most of the time (nausea, gi problems, extreme fatigue, irritable...). Here's the hope shot: I didn't give up and I won't give up and this entire experience has taught me alot and made me Never want to use again. I know my addict mind can forget the pain and go back and use again - but I'm hopeful that this prolonged negative consequence will have a lasting impact and help me not to forget and self medicate again. I wanted to sound positive here and it comes out as whiny and complaining. Sorry. Just wanted to reply to all the kind support and let ya'll know I'm still here and in the grand scheme of things - it looks like a win (hard won, but worth it). Now it's my turn to offer support and encouragement where I can! I wish everyone the best nomatter where you are in your journey - we are stronger than we realize and everyone has something to offer.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:16 pm 
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aquasun,

Holy Smokes, 45 days off sub, GOOD JOB!!!

Listen, there's nothing weird going on with you, trust me, it's your brain trying to 'boot up' again. For a good while it didn't have to produce any of it's own natural opiates, you were supplying it with a steady stream of 'external opiates.' It took my brain a good while before it started producing it's own opiates....not only that, but it took it a while to figure how many to produce too. It's a process, sometimes it can be a long drawn out process, but things get better, I promise....they get better.

I remember feeling exactly like you do, I remember thinking "what in the hell is wrong with me, why can't I get back to normal?", it's on its way....trust me....it's coming. In the mean time, go outside and get some exercise. Be active. Those are by far the two best suggestions I can give ya.

You don't sound whiny at all, you are giving us all the truth and that's what everyone here wants....the truth.

Congratulations on 45 days!!! You are doing FANTASTIC!!!!!!

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:17 pm 
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aquasun, I sincerely hope you give yourself credit for being so strong and fighting through this. I'm in the process of tapering right now, and I KNOW it's really, really hard. I thought I was a hot shot at the high doses. I could drop 8 mg or more no sweat. Now, going from 1.25 to 1 has been horrible. I understand not wanting to sound like a whiner, but you are just telling the truth. Believe it or not, that helps people. I mean, reality is what it is, even when it isn't pretty. I knew to expect w/d, but I am still pretty shocked at this severity and length of Sub w/d, and I am a very long way from where you are. I like knowing what I may have to deal with up ahead. If it's easier than that, well, that's just a bonus. A lot of people sound very upbeat and have an attitude of "it's not that bad" when they are posting on the forum, but privately they say something totally different. None of us want to be whiners or wimps. However, this is an insanely hard thing to go through. I do believe you will turn a corner soon and feel better. You have to keep that faith. If anyone starts making you feel bad about it, they can shove it. Let's screw with their brain chemicals and see how they feel!!

Thank you so much for sharing your story and please keep posting, because I do believe this will have a happy ending and I'd love to hear it.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:05 pm 
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Hey 12606 or? I posted how I did it. I titled it taper made easy. Or easy taper. I never got sick and im a complete withdraw wimp. Can't take it at all. I was a tad lazy but that's about it

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:38 pm 
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Hey 12606 or? I posted how I did it. I titled it taper made easy. Or easy taper. I never got sick and im a complete withdraw wimp. Can't take it at all. I was a tad lazy but that's about it

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:24 pm 
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Hi all :)

Wanted to say thanks again for the kind words and support. When I read Romeo's last post assuring me that it would get better - just hang in there (words to that effect) it gave me such a boost. And every single person who posted helped me make it through another day; I mean that sincerely. Only addicts can truly understand and empathize with another addict's pain ... and the cool thing is, we can also empathize with each other's triumphs and joys. I'm so hard headed, I've had to keep putting myself through hell in order to appreciate what "normal people" call life. Anyhow... I woke up yesterday and felt ... different; not lethargic, not sick in any way, and really hopeful. Hard to explain, but this is the best I've felt since I had 18mos clean a few yrs back. My head isn't foggy and the little bit of nausea and gi trouble isn't at all like it was the past 1 1/2 mos. I actually felt like talking and being around ppl for the first time in a year and spent last night with some ladies from my local NA (good friends I've neglected for a long, long time). Today I hit the nooner (mtg) and went shopping with a good friend... It was FIINALLY a nice day in western pa so we sat outside for the mtg and made the guys stay inside! (Lol). I'm super grateful to feel like me again and wanted to let you know you all were right - it did get better and it is sooooo WORTH IT!! I'll stick around and am happy to listen or offer encouragement to anyone who needs it. Thanks again guys!


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:40 pm 
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Hi laddertipper :)

Thanks for your kind words. Now, let's make it a happy ending for you too! In fact, happy endings all around! Of course I'm not miraculously cured and this is really just the beginning and not the end... but I'm as hopeful as you that there are more bright days ahead. Any time you need to talk or anything I can do to help you - please don't hesitate to email me or post here. I don't get on my comp. every day but will make an effort to check in more regularly if it can help. I'll tell you, even if I feel like crap tomorrow (which could happen) these couple days of freedom gave me the hope shot I so desperately needed! Now I know for sure that there is an end to the bad part and I have no regrets! All the best to you :)


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 1:19 pm 
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[
I've been on opana and norco for five years due to accident and chronic pain syndrome. I want to stop and am considering suboxone. After reading these posts about how horrid withdrawals are, I wonder if I should just try to taper off the painkillers instead of starting another drug to withdraw from. Can anyone give me a reason?



size=12] [/size]


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 Post subject: Generic for Suboxone
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 1:28 pm 
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My pharmacy tells me there is no generic for suboxone. What I've read says differently. Can anyone tell me if there is a generic and what the name is? Thanks.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 1:31 pm 
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aquasun122606@yahoo.com wrote:
Hi all :)

Wanted to say thanks again for the kind words and support. When I read Romeo's last post assuring me that it would get better - just hang in there (words to that effect) it gave me such a boost. And every single person who posted helped me make it through another day; I mean that sincerely. Only addicts can truly understand and empathize with another addict's pain ... and the cool thing is, we can also empathize with each other's triumphs and joys. I'm so hard headed, I've had to keep putting myself through hell in order to appreciate what "normal people" call life. Anyhow... I woke up yesterday and felt ... different; not lethargic, not sick in any way, and really hopeful. Hard to explain, but this is the best I've felt since I had 18mos clean a few yrs back. My head isn't foggy and the little bit of nausea and gi trouble isn't at all like it was the past 1 1/2 mos. I actually felt like talking and being around ppl for the first time in a year and spent last night with some ladies from my local NA (good friends I've neglected for a long, long time). Today I hit the nooner (mtg) and went shopping with a good friend... It was FIINALLY a nice day in western pa so we sat outside for the mtg and made the guys stay inside! (Lol). I'm super grateful to feel like me again and wanted to let you know you all were right - it did get better and it is sooooo WORTH IT!! I'll stick around and am happy to listen or offer encouragement to anyone who needs it. Thanks again guys!


Hip Hip Hooray!!! I'm SOOOO thrilled that you feel better!! I know just what you mean and it really not mattering if you get a bad day now, because once you have that really good day, you know that's possible and you can hold onto that to get through anything uncomfortable. Thanks for being so sweet. I've met the best people ever on here. It's like that, though, with recovery. Meetings (for me) were also a source of friends who really understood me and whom I also understood. Maybe this is a weird thing, but to me, the meeting people are the normal ones and all the normal people are the weridos. I'm going to make this a happy ending. I promise!! Thanks for your support. :D

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 2:54 pm 
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renamae wrote:
[
I've been on opana and norco for five years due to accident and chronic pain syndrome. I want to stop and am considering suboxone. After reading these posts about how horrid withdrawals are, I wonder if I should just try to taper off the painkillers instead of starting another drug to withdraw from. Can anyone give me a reason?



size=12] [/size]


My feeling about that is that if you can taper off your pain meds and avoid Suboxone, by all means, do it!!!!! Don't put yourself through this if you don't have to. I don't know why anyone would tell you differently.

However, I'm in recovery for alcohol and I never once was able to taper myself off alcohol once I got into it. Not even ONCE!! That's the insanity of addiction. My advice to you is to find the best doctor you can and let him/her know the spot you are in. Make sure you find someone who knows about Sub and how hard it is to stop. Many docs know next to nothing, so come here and let us know what your doc tells you about Sub, so you can at least get some feedback that will let you know if you've found a good doc or not. Try to taper off your pain meds w/o Sub. If you cannot, well, that's where Sub comes in. Sub is there to stop the madness so you can change course. The shorter the time period you take it for, the easier it will be to stop. However, you have to make sure you figure out how you will avoid relapsing if you want to do a quick Sub taper. There really is no easy answer and everything is a trade off. I have to say it's wonderful to see someone putting some careful thought into Suboxone before getting on it. Very, very wise of you. Maybe Sub is what you need, but you need to know the benefits and the drawbacks before you start it and not once you are already in.

laddertipper

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 Post subject: Thanks to Ladder
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 8:48 pm 
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Thank you, Ladder, for replying to me. I have tried several times to wd from painkillers, prescribed to me by pain clinic, and have not been successful. However, I can't honestly say that I put alot of thought into a slow tapering schedule. My doctor is leaving it up to me more or less. He did not tell me how difficult it is to get off subutex. I've been researching this on my own. Now I'm thinking I should try one more time to wd from the painkillers. Can anyone tell me how long it takes to start to feel good? Also, does anyone have a schedule example for wd that they could share? I appreciate any help I can get. Thank you. Renamae


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:04 pm 
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I'm trying to decide if I should take suboxone since wds are so difficult, as I've said in an earlier post. If I choose to take suboxone, my plan was to get through the wds, and within a very short time, stop the suboxone, also. If I am successful at stopping suboxone within a week or two, will I still have wds to deal with? I'm confused as to how this works. Initially, I thought, "Great, I can get off pain meds and then almost immediately get off the suboxone, and I'll be free." Can someone tell me if I'm dreaming? I appreciate any help I can get. Renamae


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