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 Post subject: 'Scruffy'?????
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:42 am 
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Has anybody else received an email from 'scruffy' about the 'addiction hell' of suboxone? I've just began my trtmnt and hated reading the email. I'm questioning my decision for sub trtmnt and am scared to death now. I hope this was just spam...please lemme know if anybody else has received this email...might put my mind at ease. Thanks to all of u...happy to be in this fight with all of u!


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 Post subject: Re: 'Scruffy'?????
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:35 pm 
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jdrummer78 wrote:
Has anybody else received an email from 'scruffy' about the 'addiction hell' of suboxone? I've just began my trtmnt and hated reading the email. I'm questioning my decision for sub trtmnt and am scared to death now. I hope this was just spam...please lemme know if anybody else has received this email...might put my mind at ease. Thanks to all of u...happy to be in this fight with all of u!


I also received an instant message from this "scruffy" person. This person seemed to bash the treatment yet he gave a link to a YouTube video about a Dr. who successfully uses Subs as a treatment! Weird. Moderators???

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:04 am 
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There are quite a few ex-members of this forum who are miffed at Suboxone and it's use. There was one when I joined a few months ago who followed me around from post to post and ignited an argument every time I posted...but that IRONIC person was removed from this forum because of their attitude. They were constantly bashing Suboxone and making personal jabs at people who used it long-term..

Pay no attention to this shit..that's all it is, PURE SHIT. People want to bang their drum over Suboxone treatment and the ones doing it don't know a damn thing about it.
My own brother tried to tell me that taking Suboxone is just like taking drugs, and that I can't talk down about drug addicts when I'm taking a drug that I'm "addicted" to...well that's bullshit. My brother and I haven't spoken since his "eye-opening" theory was presented to me via Facebook messenger...and I won't either.. He's young and thinks because a few of his drug-addict friends told him about Suboxone that he knows everything there is to know about it, and until he becomes intelligent enough to do some research of his own instead of believing ignorant bullshit, I have nothing to discuss with him.

I can't tell people how much Suboxone saved my life...as I'm sure each person here has their own miracle story to go with Suboxone and treatment with it...there were so many things that were missing before I started my Suboxone treatment program..and now I feel resolved..I remember when I had quit painkillers on my own for a bit...there was about a 4-5 year break in me quitting cold turkey, then me going back and hitting the low point...and during that cessation period where I did nothing, it was like a void. I needed something but I couldn't figure out what..then I slowly fell back down and hit the low point. So I have quite a few words for someone who wants to belittle the use of suboxone.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:39 pm 
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well said jonathan........
and there are always gonna be things that work for some people, and dont for others, obviously......

the thing that makes me more frustrated than anything else when people say "your just switching one drug for another"
IS....
sometimes , I FORGET to take my suboxone. no shit at all man. I forget.

I never ONCE forgot how MANY pills, or H or whatever I had before was on hand, or WHERE it was, or needless to say FORGET to use it. EVER.........

I also think some people dont prepare themselves to go off either, Im sure theres alot more positive stories out there than negative ones, but like Ive said before when everythings awesome, you dont really write about it or reach out for help.

I hit a YEAR yesterday, and thats about 11 and half months longer than I ever made it on my own, without suboxone. Im definitely not in hell, becuase I was there already for at least 8 long years.

The suboxone program can be whatever you want it to be. If you wana make it hell, Im sure it can be. But if you really want to better your life and concentrate on changing, I honestly believe you can do that too. I have.

Peace out all :wink: :wink: :wink:

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 Post subject: Scruffy
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 3:16 pm 
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Yeah, Scruffy has been following my posts on this forum and sending my private messages about how i should get off suboxone asap yada yada...


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 3:41 pm 
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I actually enjoy reading what they have to say and think its beneficial for new comers to sub hereing the good and the bad. Thats my one dislike of this forum is all you read about subs is good but there is so much more info people have a right to know. If i knew half the shit i know now i would of never touched suboxone, and just put myself in a detox facility. Bc i was in pain on sub so what woulf been the difference in the end it would of been one less drug i became heavily addicted to and had to go through living hell to get off.

But there are two ways to go about this and the way scruffy and the others do it is wrong. But if you can do what they are trying to do respectfully and post true facts about your time on suboxone and state this is solely your experience /believes than yes i think it can b helpful.

People have a right to know the pros and cons of anything they might put in there body.

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 Post subject: Bboy wisdom
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 4:13 pm 
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No one is "followed". It would be great if the various forms of induction were made clear, and the consequences of the types also spelled out. Bboy has written wisely on this - knowledge is power.


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 Post subject: Re: Bboy wisdom
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 4:30 pm 
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scruffy wrote:
No one is "followed". It would be great if the various forms of induction were made clear, and the consequences of the types also spelled out. Bboy has written wisely on this - knowledge is power.


Then post in my thread if you have somethin to say on the topic... Even if you think you will face criticism. Suboxone should be looked at from a variety of viewpoints, experiences and perspectives. No need to hide.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 4:39 pm 
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Maybe this is a good place to say what I mean generally --- not specific to any one person.

INDUCTION TIME IS CRITICAL -- And Doctors do this in various ways forming a range. At one end are those like Dr. Steven Scanlan (see on YouTube) who use low dose/short time detox. The subs are used for 21 days to blunt the effects of W/D from most opiates. At the end Sub is tapered off quickly- and appropriate therapy started if needed.

At the other end are Doctors who assume this is a replacement drug - the using of which is better than anything out there dangerous and illegal. Induction then often involves starting patients at 24mg or higher to replace their D.O.C.

Between these extremes are numerous programs, which as of late have tended to morph into the replacement drug
approach. But also, here in the middle are programs that promise a taper off later, but do not really prepare the patient to do that. They are vague on how tapering is done after 6 months or a year, when it is quite difficult if not impossible.

The more that is clearly understood at induction -- the better the wanted outcome will be. This is no time for hope or desperation ---- it is a time for all the facts and acting on them for ones best interest. This is critical.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:54 pm 
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I don't know- I've read about all of the negative aspects of subs on this very site.. Yes, I've read of the positives as well, and to be fair this is primarily a site designed for support of people on subs.. But to say that the negative aspect isn't discussed just isn't accurate.. Not when you have a "side effects" folder, a "stopping sub" folder (which is filled with horror stories of how hard it is to stop) as well as a few others..


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:37 pm 
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scruffy wrote:
They are vague on how tapering is done after 6 months or a year, when it is quite difficult if not impossible


You say you want to spread all the facts about sub and then say tapering off might be impossible when so many on this forum come back and tell us how they did it and succeeded?

I'm sorry but you recently posted about how you took 3x your dose of sub for 5 days for no good reason. No wonder you're upset but come on.. Have you been ready to taper and gave it a sincerely honest try? If not how can you say the above about tapering? I totally agree with how doctors and rb are vague about it btw...

As for Everything else you're saying, I agree with oxen just post it in the open instead of pm'ing new sub patients how bout?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:55 pm 
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THIS IS NOT ABOUT ME, IT IS ABOUT INDUCTION, AND LACK OF INFORMATION ABOUT INDUCTION.
IT IS IN THE OPEN - SEE RECENT POST
IT REALLY SHOULD BE ANOTHER THREAD SO WE DON'T WASTE PEOPLE'S TIME HERE ON THIS ONE
I WILL DO THAT


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:02 pm 
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scruffy wrote:
THIS IS NOT ABOUT ME, IT IS ABOUT INDUCTION, AND LACK OF INFORMATION ABOUT INDUCTION.
IT IS IN THE OPEN - SEE RECENT POST
IT REALLY SHOULD BE ANOTHER THREAD SO WE DON'T WASTE PEOPLE'S TIME HERE ON THIS ONE
I WILL DO THAT


Except there is NOT a "lack of information about induction".. There is a WEALTH of information about induction.. It's all there, right out in the open, for anyone that wants it.. Which is why you messaging people privately about this doesn't make any sense- and why it IS about you.. They're just asking you to post openly, not privately.. No big deal


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 Post subject: ENOUGH -- YES AND NO
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:57 pm 
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This is all open posting now but this thread is going nowhere now. I think the point is that all the information I have on how various inductions are done is after a year of learning. A year too late.

For many people induction is critical, but they are, for sure, in withdrawal. Not the best time to be learning and making critical decisions. I know this was true for me. The important information might have determined WHERE i went and HOW it was to be done.

In W/D the main thing is to make it stop. Anything that does that is pretty good. Somehow people at that point --- just having an appointment in the future --- need to have a very good idea about what their decisions at induction will mean. All cannot be reversed, and how you start determines how things will go.

Toward that end I will start a new topic about early induction information and how it might be shared.

It is not just the amount of information. There is the internet after all. It is who knows it when.

I don't think anyone has bad motives here --- maybe a new start on the topic?


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 Post subject: Induction
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:47 pm 
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I have been on suboxone now subutex for 3 yrs under the care of two different doctors. Neither doctor did the induction as susggested on this site or RB site. Bothe wrote a prescription and sent me home. The first time on day 3 I was in such a situation with headache and lethargic I thought I was going to have to go to the ER.

I finally on my own and through the help of this forum was able to get to a stable dose and stay off opiates through the use of subs.

Listen everyone is not gung ho on suboxone or subutex. I often wonder whether I traded one drug for another. Sure people can say we are not addicted to suboxone but we sure are dependent on it. I dare anyone to go 5 days without sub and tell me how you feel. I think the RB and the Dr's have it wrong on the w/d's that we go through...........then paws. I have often thought that the only way I am going to get off sub..........if I choose to.........right now I think I need to make this a life long deal. But if I choose too get off I think the best way is through treatment (detox). I have found in the city I live in they have several detox lcations that have 30 day programs to get off sub.

It is clear that some have recognized that this drug does work..........I believe it...........but quitting is very hard and RB does not have a clear taper program and detox may be the way to go. However remember this is a very powerful disease and for many life long maintence may be the answer. For now I will stay on it because I am afraid of what I will do if I stop. This really is something for someone to think about. I hate the cost ..........but I am alive and I would be in jail, dead or in an institution without it. We have a tough decision.................let's support those that have to make it. This is life or death.

Jim


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:20 pm 
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I too received an informational email from Scruffy, but I must say that I didn't take offense to it or feel that it was unnecessary. I had actually already researched the links he directed me to. Scruffy obviously has had a problem with suboxone maintenance and he feels it his duty to share his experience with others. Just because he has a different opinion, doesn't mean he is wrong. A softer touch might be advisable, but I don't think he meant any harm by his actions.

After reading through this post, I have to say that I agree with the last post by Reraise, we should absolutely educate ourselves about the long term effects of suboxone maintenance, however, it is up to the individual and the doctor (hopefully one who is educated about suboxone and who has been treating people for some time) to decide the best course of action based on the patient's personal history.

I don't believe that there is a one-size-fits-all treatment plan. Oftentimes, it seems as though it is the process of choosing the lessor of two evils (I site the posting of the mom who's daughter is on suboxone for the 4th time...this time as maintenance rather than a quick taper. Were this girl to be tapered too quickly again she would likely end up back on the same road of destruction).

As Reraise says, we should support those who have made their decision on this tough issue; whether it be for a quick taper or years long maintenance.

All of this to say, others should be allowed to share and discuss their personal experiences and opinions with and about suboxone, but accordingly we should also be respected for our own.

Goblin


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:43 am 
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All of this still doesn't mean that someone should be bombarded with all sorts of negative information when they join this site....

When you join this site, you aren't bombarded with PM's about how great Suboxone is, and how you should love it and kiss it and hug it and hold it....nope..nobody sends a PM telling anyone how great Suboxone is when they join here. It's up to EACH PERSON to figure out, by READING/RESEARCH, what is best for them. Not by being sent unsolicited PM's..I think we're confusing the matter here...arguing the context of the PM's doesn't matter...it's just plainly against the rules to do it, because it's unsolicited. Nobody asked to be sent information like that, and ALL forums have rules about sending unsolicited PM's to random members -- it's usually filed under the "SPAM RULE"....because most people think that's what it is, Spam.

There are better, obviously more tact ways to approach telling people how you feel about Suboxone. EVEN THOUGH, at the TOP of every posting page, it tells you this plainly:

Please do not debate the 'Pros and Cons of Suboxone' --
this forum is for people who have made their choice whether
it be for Suboxone, for Methadone, or for meetings and no meds.

PLEASE Do not get into debating which is better!

Please show the respect for the decisions of others


People who join here have made up their mind usually...and are just coming here to share their story or talk with others.

When I first started Suboxone, I never thought to look for a website in forum-type so I could share with others...I was alone in my treatment, I was the only person in my area to get on Suboxone...hell, every drug store around here that I called didn't have the shit 4 years ago when I started...I was the first person to be put on Suboxone in this area....

And I did know one person who was the first person in the state to be placed on it, as a trial...he was in a study...

But when I started, Suboxone wasn't promoted in this area that I live. There are 8-10 big-name drug stores and 5-6 mom & pop drug stores in my area...and it's not a big city...
So I had to wait on Fred's to order it -- luckily it only took a day to get it in...but that was 4 years ago. People that I talked with about Suboxone and how it worked started sharing the news..saw my life change..and several other people are on it now...so it's all over the place at mostly every drug store in town now.
I wish I could've found this site back when I started though..but it wasn't on my mind. Plus, I was out of work, and worried over bills and crap...where now, I can spend 10 hours a day in front of the computer if I wanted to. My wife takes care of working, has a great job at the power plant, so I stay home with our 4 children...plus I take care of my niece. So I got time on my hands now to search and discover information that I find helpful or relative to my situation. Most people don't have this luxury though.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:20 pm 
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@ jon1978 I thought the "ironic" guy was banned, the guy who was cruelly writing on the pregnancy thread about how these women's babies were all going to have problems. it was sick... I don't want to jump into the rest of the debate but i was hoping that guy was gone!


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:28 pm 
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I have reached out to Scruffy. This person is only trying to let newcomers know what he himself has went through. I appreciate his honesty.

With that said...Nobody here can tell you (general you) how Suboxone will be for YOU. We are like snowflakes..What works for me may not work for you, as with ANY med. I have a great friend on this forum and Suboxone saved her life, shes a beautiful soul and it works perfectly for her. Me? not so much..lol I had horrible reactions to it. Listen, if you are afraid of this med, the best thing you can do is RESEARCH it, learn it, know it. Dont be googling all over the web because 9 times out of 10 all you are going to hear is horrible stories...mostly ppl who didnt take it correctly. We come searching the web lookinh for answers to problems...how many of us come to the web to share how great we do on Subs? Ya not going to...those ppl are fine and have Moved on.

Withdrawals from Sub ARE NOT THAT BAD IF taken correctly, tapered CORRECTLY!! I can not stress that enough. If your drug abuse has consumed your life...this drug CAN and WILL help you. Now some ppl only need it short term...maybe just for wds. I was on it exactly one month...no withdrawals...well, minor MINOR wds. Listen if you set yourself up for doom...you are goina be doomed.

Scruffy means no ill will. just stuck and felt compelled to warn.
There are several just on this forum who have went off Subs and suffered mild,minor wds. Like, i said if you are scared...pray ,research and by all means write down every question and concern and take it to your doctor. Educate yourself...dont look for answers thru google all u will do is scare the shit out of yourself (like me haha)
God Bless!

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