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 Post subject: School Shooting
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:37 pm 
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I'm working inside a CT public school right now, and I just found out that 18 children were shot dead in a Newtown, CT elementary school. I'm freaking out. I feel so sad and helpless right now. My daughter is is another public elementary school :cry:


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:13 pm 
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I've been following.. My heart is broken right now. I just can't imagine what would drive someone to do this or what it would be like to live through this tragedy. I'm at a loss for words..


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:55 pm 
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This IS heart-breaking,,,,
unimaginable,,,,

You know, I never ever thought about EVIL exsisting in the world UNTIL I had my son

It makes you hug them a little longer,a little tighter :wink:

One thing that I read online,
was that most "gifted" people, intelligence-wise either go "manson or einstien"
Ive recently found out, that SO FAR, my son is way ahead intellectually than his age.

So, things like THIS make me think, how am I going to make CERTAIN he doesn't "stray" the wrong way???

apparently,,,
most highly intelligent people have SOME Underlying mental disorder/condition and left untreated, or even
OVERTREATED,
well I guess this is what you can end up with

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C36oJGw0HSU[/youtube]

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 3:11 am 
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I have been so desensitized by all the shootings like this that have happened in the last 15 or so years. But this one has crossed a line for me. I have found myself watching the news and breaking out in tears. I try and picture myself as one of the kids or a relative and I just feel traumatized. I've never felt this way about a news story.
I really hope this is the last time. Someone mentioned that it will probably get worse and I am afraid he might be right. I hate the whole thing being politicized. First of all I feel for the families and the people directly involved. I feel like there needs to be a change in our society. There is something we are doing wrong and I don't know what it is. We really need to start taking better care of the people who fall through the cracks.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:04 pm 
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Chuckleheadfunk wrote:
There is something we are doing wrong and I don't know what it is. We really need to start taking better care of the people who fall through the cracks.



you sure hit the nail on the head, here , so to say.........

and there are TONS of people falling thru the cracks.......
the mentally ill, the criminally insane, the homeless, and let's not forget the addicts....


I mean seriously,,,, we cannot afford to give EVERYONE the RIGHT to go to a doctor??

I think that would make the biggest difference,,,,if everyone could get the medication they needed,
the mental health they needed,, meaning phyciatry, whatever, whoever they needed to see to help them,,,

I seriously think alot of these problems would disappear.

Im not sure HOW we need to do it,,,
I know that we waste WAY TOO MUCH money, in the government, I do know that much!!!

anyways,
it IS a heartbreaking story,,, It crosses the LINE for most, becuz WHO in their RIGHT MIND could hurt a child,
let alone TWENTY of them???

even in prison,, they have a "totem pole" for lack of a better term, and the people that hurt children and women are
at the bottom,,,,, that's why they are seperated......................

it's just horrible.

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hold it together, when everyone would understand if you fell apart
That's TRUE STRENGTH
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:15 pm 
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Access to health care makes a lot of sense. I think it is there for someone that wants it. But I believe that a mentally ill person is going to be too daunted by the paperwork and and effort needed to find out where to get free help. Not always, but the medical world can be pretty damn confusing.

James Holmes, the Colorado shooter, had a psychiatrist who I think actually warned someone about his behavior. He was so close to getting help and that is a real shame.

In my State we are due to cut a whole lot of Medicare type services. It includes psychiatric medication, methadone and suboxone treatment, mental health services and a host of other things they think are unnecessary. It scares me to think of the people that will go untreated wandering the streets. I'm afraid things could get ugly.

Health care is one step. I think there are more things we need to do better as a society. Really it's just a matter of caring for each other.

I think about the kids that survived this massacre. I did see a couple of boys who were at the school who seem so calm describing what they witnessed. It was really surreal how calm they were. I am afraid of how they will grow up and the nightmares they will have. I'm afraid that they will fall into trouble, crime, drugs or suicide. Violence can be a vicious cycle.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:10 pm 
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well in my state,

they don't even OFFER medicare to ADULTS unless you have cancer or HIV or something like that,,,

when you are pregnant, you can apply for the "lottery"
where a certain number of SSN's are drawn, and if your "picked" than you get coverage.....

KIDS, kids can get it, MY SON is on it, that means WE QUALIFY for free healthcare, but CANNOT get it,
due to 'budget'
or whatever......

And I pay a deductible for my son, I didn't used to , but when my husband went back to work, it upped our income quite a bit,
and I seriously do NOT mind paying one,,,
Im just GRATEFUL He has coverage,,,, my son, I mean.

It just really irritates the SHIT outta me that a collection agency is getting

ONE THIRD of my check right now, becuz my husband works, they can take 33% BEFORE TAXES,,,
and then they take the taxes, then I get the rest,
which works out to HALF....
anyways,
I had NO INSURANCE< still have none,,,, when I had my son,
so Im in debt, almost 50K JUST for MEDICAL.
I obviously didn't win the 'lotto' drawing.....

we want to file ch. 7 bankruptcy, have met w/a lawyer here, twice, but that costs almost two grand,,,

anyway, I know I've made a TON of bad decisions, but Ive been doing everything the RIGHT WAY
the last 20 months at least......
so we spend almost a THOUSAND DOLLARS A MONTH on perscriptions.......
between MY suboxone, and My husbands Bi-polar meds,,,,

Something's gotta give,
that's all Im saying......
both the companies we work for DO NOT offer any type of insurance......

and there's NO DENTAL for medicare, either here....
that was something else, I spent a TON of $$$ on, this year, about 7GRAND on getting my teeth fixed...
But Im grateful I got it done..... also grateful my grandmother helped pay for it....

your right, violence is a vicious cycle,,,
and Im not sure what the answer is.......
I know way back when, "families" were a LOT different than they are now, I mean the VALUES and beliefs,
morals,,,, ETC ETC ETC
remember the 'old' saying

it takes a village to raise a child???

makes sense to me :wink:

_________________
anyone can give up,
its the easiest thing in the world to do, but to
hold it together, when everyone would understand if you fell apart
That's TRUE STRENGTH
http://almostoneyearclean.blogspot.com/


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:18 pm 
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This kid, and I don't even want to use his name to give him further publicity, was from a wealthy family who, unless they were completely negligent, probably got him help somewhere along the way. One of the big problems, though, is that this kid was 20 years old. Privacy laws are so stringent that his parents haven't been able to see his current medical records unless he allows them to.

The effects of the shooting will be with the kids who witnessed it for a long time and in many ways that they can't even imagine. My cousin's daughter was shot in the Deer Creek Middle School shooting in Feb. 2010 here in Colorado. She had a relatively minor injury, but she looked directly at the shooter and saw him take aim at her. In Sept. 2011 I was staying with her because both of her parents were out of town for a couple weeks and I was her nanny for many years while she was growing up. Well, she had some stress at school and had a breakdown while I was there. After we had talked for a long time, I discovered that one of the underlying issues was that she had to testify in the trial of the gunman in a few weeks. It was eating her away. There are so many ways that trauma affected her and it still does.

I don't know what the secret formula is for figuring out when and why this happens. I just hope someone can figure it out soon.

Amy

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:21 am 
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Yeah it's really tragic I can't believe it ... primary school kids. That's shocking. It's front page news around the world.

The last time my country had a massacre in 1996, the guy killed 35 people. A couple of weeks later the Government passed laws that heavily restricted sale / ownership of semi-automatic / automatic rifles and shotguns. They did a buy-back scheme and a shitload of guns were bought back off people and disposed of. We haven't had any kind of shooting like that since.

I know it's not my country ... but the only thing more shocking for me when I hear about these shootings is the fact that nothing is ever done to prevent them happening again. And people say "no no this isn't the time to talk about it". This must be EXACTLY the time to talk about it.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:25 pm 
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After I posted that I picked up my daughter and brought her to a class she takes at the library (she didn't even know about the shooting at that point). While I was waiting I picked up an article by a parent telling about the extreme difficulties they had in finding mental health care for their schizophrenic son. Both patents were M.D.'s! If well connected affluent people have this kind of difficulty, where does that leave the rest of us?

I ended up dropping my kids off this morning and they had state troopers at the school. A couple of schools in the area were in lockdown again today because of perceived threats that turned out to be bogus, and because of hoax threats. What kind of sick fuckers call in hoaxes when we can barely deal with this tragedy as its? I want my kids to be safe, but I don't want them to have to live in a police state.

I'm really having a hard time dealing with this. A little while ago I saw some of the photos of those beautiful kids who were killed...I keep thinking about the terror and pain they must have gone through...it's devastating.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:51 pm 
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TeeJay wrote:
Yeah it's really tragic I can't believe it ... primary school kids. That's shocking. It's front page news around the world.

The last time my country had a massacre in 1996, the guy killed 35 people. A couple of weeks later the Government passed laws that heavily restricted sale / ownership of semi-automatic / automatic rifles and shotguns. They did a buy-back scheme and a shitload of guns were bought back off people and disposed of. We haven't had any kind of shooting like that since.

I know it's not my country ... but the only thing more shocking for me when I hear about these shootings is the fact that nothing is ever done to prevent them happening again. And people say "no no this isn't the time to talk about it". This must be EXACTLY the time to talk about it.


Unfortunately the majority of the people with money=power in our country are the ones who are pro 2nd amendment/ gun rights. There is absolutely NO reason we should have such easy access to guns these days let alone automatic, rapid fire weapons. I don't believe this issue is that simple but the gun access is such a huge part of it that people can't deny anymore. Health care access is another but again, not everyone can predict who is going to fly off the handle like that. Not only that but another problem with health care in our country is to push meds. Who knows what that is doing to our children's development. Hormones in food could be another.. bullying at school. The list is endless. The bottom line is that a lot of these massacres probably wouldn't have happened if the Children didn't have such easy access to guns. I wouldn't have even known where to get a gun as a child or even know now, to be honest. They are not apart of my world.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:20 am 
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tinydancer wrote:
The bottom line is that a lot of these massacres probably wouldn't have happened if the Children didn't have such easy access to guns. I wouldn't have even known where to get a gun as a child or even know now, to be honest. They are not apart of my world.



I was for SURE what you'd call a "wild child''
I was rebelious, disrespectful, lied, You name it.....

when I was kicked out of my house at 14, I moved in with my grandma and grandpa. gramps was in the military, over 20 years,
and VERY "pro-second amendment"

with all that said, my grandad kept a rifle, behind the bedroom door, another in the laundry room, and a pistol in his pickup.
when I turned 16, I used to drive his truck to school....
I ALWAYS knew that gun was there,
but I ALWAYS knew NOT to touch it. . .
Not unless it was an EMERGENCY, like someone breaking in the house, a bear in the yard, something like that.

Im just saying , WE CANT ALWAYS BLAME THE GUNS.

automatic rifles? yea, Im not sure WHAT those are good for, besides drive by shootings.

as rebelious as I was ,,, I never, even THOUGHT about shooting anyone, ever.

fistfights??
ohhhhhhhh yea.
absolutely.


whatever happened to a fist fight to settle your arguement???

_________________
anyone can give up,
its the easiest thing in the world to do, but to
hold it together, when everyone would understand if you fell apart
That's TRUE STRENGTH
http://almostoneyearclean.blogspot.com/


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:59 pm 
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amber4.14.11 wrote:

with all that said, my grandad kept a rifle, behind the bedroom door, another in the laundry room, and a pistol in his pickup.
when I turned 16, I used to drive his truck to school....
I ALWAYS knew that gun was there,
but I ALWAYS knew NOT to touch it. . .
Not unless it was an EMERGENCY, like someone breaking in the house, a bear in the yard, something like that.

Im just saying , WE CANT ALWAYS BLAME THE GUNS.



whatever happened to a fist fight to settle your arguement???


I understand why some people feel this way although I don't agree. Of course a gun will not go off by itself, a person needs to pull the trigger. But the reasoning above (ie "well, I turned out ok around guns and didn't do anything like this") just doesn't hold weight with me. A lot of people are not going to do something of this magnitude.. but what if it had been your child in this school? My point is that there will most likely be more kids or people with psychotic breaks that are driven to do something like this in the future and the less available guns are in general the better. This is strictly my opinion..

The whole fighting for our rights thing is getting old. Guns do more harm than good, period. Why don't we just legalize all drugs or.. prostitution.. or child molestation so we can have all of our rights to do whatever we want no matter who gets hurt? Guns kill people. Guns in the wrong hands kill people. Innocent people. This is getting so old. sigh..


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:51 pm 
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20 years old is getting to the peak of one self control. and this person turned in to a complete evil freak. i saw this unfold around 11 in the morning and the night be for it happened my brother was telling me about the west coast shooting and jan-2013. i let him no about this the next day. lilyval- i'm not to far from western con.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:08 am 
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Okay,
I said Im not sure what assualt rifles are ANY GOOD for........


parents need to RAISE THIER CHILDREN, is ONE large issue, is what my point was.......

I was rebelious,,, but I KNEW not to touch a weapon.

does that make ANY SENSE TO YOU????

so, you think ALL GUNS should be illegal???

no hunting, no sport shooting, nothing like that???

I guess you live in the city or something......
around HERE, there are bears and cougars, (not old women, either) and things like that,
they hunt US, our children, ETC ETC ETC


seriously, blanket statements like that,,,, are GETTTING OLD FOR ME.

your right, it's takes a PERSON TO PULL THE TRIGGER.

"guns don't kill people, husbands who come home early do" :lol:


I don't think weapons should be so easily acessible,, however you spell it.......
it shouldn't be like buying beer.....
it should be a process, they should be tracked better, ETC....
and I def don't think assualt rifles are any good, for anything but pure violence.


It's so sad that a few stupid people screw everything up, for everyone else... it's like the cellphone/driving law.
it's illegal now to talk and drive, right....
but people drive down the road, reading,eating, disciplining their kids, shaving,, putting on makeup, NOT paying attention
in a MILLION WAYS,,,,
and out here, where it's all two lane roads, and no traffic in the "off" season,,, tourist season I mean,
it's NOT that "unsafe" to drive and have a conversation.......
but it's NOW illegal becuz people just can't use common sense.

we as a country have A LOT OF PROBLEMS,,,,
guns shouldn't be so readily availible but that doesn't mean RESPONSIBLE PEOPLE shouldn't be allowed to own them, either.

and this of course is just my opinion :wink:

_________________
anyone can give up,
its the easiest thing in the world to do, but to
hold it together, when everyone would understand if you fell apart
That's TRUE STRENGTH
http://almostoneyearclean.blogspot.com/


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:28 am 
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Too many people with mental illness go untreated in American society, that's for sure. And in my lowly opinion, firearms are too widely available. Studies show that the more available guns are, the more homicides there are.

This is from the Harvard school of public health (http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/research/hi ... index.html)

Quote:
1. Where there are more guns there is more homicide (literature review).

Our review of the academic literature found that a broad array of evidence indicates that gun availability is a risk factor for homicide, both in the United States and across high-income countries. Case-control studies, ecological time-series and cross-sectional studies indicate that in homes, cities, states and regions in the US, where there are more guns, both men and women are at higher risk for homicide, particularly firearm homicide.

Hepburn, Lisa; Hemenway, David. Firearm availability and homicide: A review of the literature. Aggression and Violent Behavior: A Review Journal. 2004; 9:417-40.


As for assault rifles, the only thing they are for is gunning people down. Period. Nothing more, nothing less. And there should be nothing short of a ban on them. Australia had the right idea and from my understanding, they haven't had any more massacres/mass shootings since they changed their gun laws.

The bottom line is that the more guns there are, the more shootings and therefore deaths there will be.

Aside from stats presented, these are just my opinions.


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 Post subject: The Mother
PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:23 pm 
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I just can't think too much about this or I start crying again. The loss of such young lives is too much to take in so I am doing what a lot of others are doing and not thinking about it too much.

Have you noticed there isn't much news about his mother? I put 90% of the blame on her. She knew her son was mentally ill and even told others that she just couldn't take it. So what does she do? She keeps semi-automatic weapons in the house where he had easy access. It may or may not be true but I heard on the radio that she taught him to shoot at a young age. I've done the same thing with my kid but he is a normal young man and has no way to get my guns. The shooter did try to buy one in his name but was turned down because of his age. I sure hope his mental illness would have also stopped the sale but we'll never know.

Yes, there are many factors involved to make this kid kill other youngsters. The news just keeps coming out with new stuff every day. That is another thing. The media should be banned from naming the shooter/s of schools and can only regard him/her as "the coward" or something like that. These kids want infamy after they are gone so let's take that away so it's not part of the reason.

That's it for me. We are off to a Christmas party tonight. Too bad none of those kids and adults will enjoy any of those in the future.

Take Care All,

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:03 pm 
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Amber, I'm not sure if your shouty capitals are towards me but I wasn't trying to argue. If that's the tone you got, sorry. I'm just trying to converse intelligently and play devil's advocate on some sides. I actually can understand and relate to all sides of this debate, I just happen to feel more strongly in one direction.

To answer your question, I do not think all guns should be illegal but we need a major overhaul in regards to gun control/ laws and what types are available.

.....................................

Anyways.. I'm annoyed by this whole "we need to have armed guards at schools" argument. Did anyone know that prison guards do not carry guns in the yard? Ever. There is a reason for that. Even they know that any weapon can be diverted or end up in the wrong hands.

Here's an interesting link:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/20/opini ... html?_r=1&

I agree that treatment for the mentally ill needs attention.. for sure. But, I don't think that shoving more meds down their throats is the answer either..


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:24 pm 
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tinydancer wrote:
Amber, I'm not sure if your shouty capitals are towards me but I wasn't trying to argue. If that's the tone you got, sorry. I'm just trying to converse intelligently and play devil's advocate on some sides. I actually can understand and relate to all sides of this debate, I just happen to feel more strongly in one direction.

To answer your question, I do not think all guns should be illegal but we need a major overhaul in regards to gun control/ laws and what types are available.

.....................................

Anyways.. I'm annoyed by this whole "we need to have armed guards at schools" argument. Did anyone know that prison guards do not carry guns in the yard? Ever. There is a reason for that. Even they know that any weapon can be diverted or end up in the wrong hands.

Here's an interesting link:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/20/opini ... html?_r=1&

I agree that treatment for the mentally ill needs attention.. for sure. But, I don't think that shoving more meds down their throats is the answer either..





Ummmmm
I use "shouty capitals" in EVERY post, I think :wink:

_________________
anyone can give up,
its the easiest thing in the world to do, but to
hold it together, when everyone would understand if you fell apart
That's TRUE STRENGTH
http://almostoneyearclean.blogspot.com/


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 1:25 pm 
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^ Haha! Touché.


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