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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:29 am 
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I am not new but do have a question. I have caremark & they will not pay for films unless deemed "medically necessary". I gave this letter to my doctor last month when i received it & he said he called the insurance & they said i could get the films for 12 more months.

Had my appointment yesterday & imagine my surprise (shock really) when i was told only generic pills would be covered & the pharmacist had already called my doc & the insurance.

What i received are pills from Amneal pharmaceuticals. The pills say AN 415. Will there be a big difference? I already don't like them because with this mornings dose it took forever to dissolve & i feel like i had so much saliva that the medication was watered down! Is there a "best" way to take the pills?

I did try to search here but really didn't find much but then again i am not real good at using the search LOL

Thanks in advance for any help, answer, suggestions

Tiki


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:53 pm 
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Hello TIKI!

I was in your same situation and the beginning of the year. My insurance would not cover the Suboxone sublinquel films but the generic.

At first I was reluctant and mainly worried that it would not feel the same, but let me tell you. I CAN NOT tell the difference and the new generic tastes 10 times better. So I hope this helps in saying that I would take the leap and go the generic route, because they are cheaper (for no insurance) and they work the same ( for those that have insurance cover on them).


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:25 pm 
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Raudy

Thank you for answering me. I am confused....do you get a generic film? I gagged today on the large orange pill & it took forever to dissolve.

If there is a generic film i am going to argue to get it. The other problem is my doctor said he won't write for zubsolv which is the other covered "replacement" but it doesn't look like it's a film either.

It would be great to find another film for many reasons but the biggest for me is the films dissolve so quickly.

How can i get more info & do you or anyone know what i can do to convince my insurance i need the films?

Thanks so much!


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:54 pm 
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Ins companies make all the rules. When a generic comes to market thses companies made tbe switch. Why? Like everything else, follow the money . Generics are cheaper. Cheaper for the ins companies. So... and your dr,? Id ask just why he wont write for Zubslov. Why wont he?. I understand that 9 out of 10 people tested liked Zub better. Quicker to dissolve an better taste. So maybe try to talk with hour dr. There is no generic film. We all will have to wait till 2023 for that to happen.. Now if you lived where i do, you cant even get the generic suboxone tablets..it is against to law..hopeful this law will be overturned this year. Anpther member here has been working on it...anyway good luck with your dr. That seems to be your best chance to make a change. Oh, you could pay out of pocket for the films. . But... razor...


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 8:41 am 
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Razor

Thank you for the info. That's awful that your area won't allow generic's. I have asked my doctor why he won't write subutex & he finally said because the DEA would be all over him so now i have to pin him down to write the other generic covered to see if that is any better than the one i just got. I swear it doesn't start to dissolve for 10 minutes & then my mouth is full of saliva. But i now realize i am lucky my insurance pays for anything.


If Zubsolb is a generic the doctor wouldn't need any other training to write it would he?

Thanks again


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:08 am 
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Oh no, he could just write for it.. i suggest that you goole zubsllov and check it out. It is a bupe/nal combo just like suboxone, just a little different.. He may know nothing about it. So ...go in with info in hand show her.. Or......well get used to the new one you have?!?!??...lol...luck to you..raz...


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:55 am 
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Hi Tiki,

I am so sorry, I was referring to Zubsolv as the generic that I was prescribed.

Just FYI, I had to actually ask for the medication, because earlier in the year, I asked for it and my doctors said that he would prefer to give me the Suboxone strips. So in December I went back to my doctor and just told him that my insurance will no longer pay for the Suboxone strips( which is true for Aetna) and that I need him to prescribe me Zubsolv

So he did prescribe me Zubsolv, but mainly because of my insurance.

The Zubsolv is a pill but it is a quick dissolve pill and it takes kinda minty. So it does not stay in your mouth very long, so it doesn't give you the psychological idea of swallowing a pill.

Tiki, I hope you are able to explain to you doctor on your next visit.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:55 pm 
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Hi guys,

I was a woman on a mission! I did some research about zubsolv , called the pharmacist, insurance company then my doctor. Lol. Bottom line is I picked the films up tonight. I do have some health issues discovered right after I started sub treatment that are documented via MRI & ct scans & got a rash on my face & neck with flushing after 2 days on generic. The pills wouldn't melt & when I told pharmacist he said they were old! Real nice. They expire June 2014!!!

This experience has taught me many lessons! I will not take for granted the things I have any more. I did ask pharmacist what films cost out of pocket & was told for 30 films it is $260! I now have a new outlook on people without insurance. This is a terrible way to deal with addiction. $1000 a month for the visit & meds. Hopefully the new generics will knock down the price of films.

Thank you for the support & I do want to say brown eyed girl has also been wonderful & helpful to me. I was so confused but with support I realized I could at least try to fight!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:04 pm 
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raudy1975 wrote:
Hi Tiki,

I am so sorry, I was referring to Zubsolv as the generic that I was prescribed.

Just FYI, I had to actually ask for the medication, because earlier in the year, I asked for it and my doctors said that he would prefer to give me the Suboxone strips. So in December I went back to my doctor and just told him that my insurance will no longer pay for the Suboxone strips( which is true for Aetna) and that I need him to prescribe me Zubsolv

So he did prescribe me Zubsolv, but mainly because of my insurance.

The Zubsolv is a pill but it is a quick dissolve pill and it takes kinda minty. So it does not stay in your mouth very long, so it doesn't give you the psychological idea of swallowing a pill.

Tiki, I hope you are able to explain to you doctor on your next visit.


Hi! Is Zubsolv a better generic brand for suboxone? the generic brand my pharmacy gave me says Actav on the bottle. And they are terrible! I want to ask my dr to please write me a different script but im really new to all this and don't know what to ask her. i thought ofasking her to write me subutex but if this generic zubsolv is good, ill ask for that one. all i know is i was finally feeling better on the suboxone films until i got switched to these horrible generic actav pills.
any input would be GREATLY appreciated


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 8:57 pm 
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Hi , I've been taking the AN 415 pills for close to a year now , they dissolve much quicker than the old orange Suboxone pills and I believe are just as strong .... I Enjoy dosing fast ! To much of a ritual with the films , that's just me though


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:15 am 
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SnowWhite

I had a problem with the pill form because they were old according to the pharmacist. He probably had them on his shelf for a year & they honestly didn't dissolve. The Zubsolv is a name brand not necessarily a generic but less expensive (from what i have read). If i were you i would talk to my doctor but as i was advised, bring in print outs regarding Zubsolv. The dosing is different than suboxone. No one in my area will write for subutex unless you are pregnant.

What markings are on the pill itself? What problems are you having? IMHO I would document everything before calling or going to the doctor. When i called the doctor & said the pill wasn't dissolving he said give it time to get used to...urghh If you are experiencing diarrhea or whatever make sure you write it down so the doctor can see it.

Google Zubsolv & read about it, I found it interesting.

Hope this helps.

Tiki


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:23 pm 
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Hi there! Yes, Zubsolv is the name of the medication and the amount is something like 5.3 Bupren./ but to be honest, I can't tell the difference between that and the 8mg strip film. So from what I gather, the med seems to be absorbed either better than the strip or my body just can't tell the difference between 8mg and 5.3mg.

I did have to ask my doctor to write a prescription for Zubsolv. That is the only medication that my insurance will pay for since they droped the Sub films from my insurance.

It is not a generic but its own name. AND they have a $75 off coupon that will work every month. The coupon paid for my co-pay on the meds so its free.

Hope you able to switch over.!


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:07 am 
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raudy1975 wrote:
Hello TIKI!

I was in your same situation and the beginning of the year. My insurance would not cover the Suboxone sublinquel films but the generic.

At first I was reluctant and mainly worried that it would not feel the same, but let me tell you. I CAN NOT tell the difference and the new generic tastes 10 times better. So I hope this helps in saying that I would take the leap and go the generic route, because they are cheaper (for no insurance) and they work the same ( for those that have insurance cover on them).


Hi Raudy,
in this post u said you cant tell the difference btw the generic and the suboxone films, but in another post u said u cant tell the difference with the Zubsolv. Im confused? The reason im asking is b/c I CAN tell a huge difference in the generics I just got a week ago and im trying to get all the info I can before I tell my DR she has to change my RX. Its been a week on these generics pills and im feeling absolutely horrible, when 2 wks ago I was fine on the films.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 6:50 pm 
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Just thought I would mention it for anyone who happens to look into this thread. Someone asked why doctors won't write for Subutex instead of the Suboxone. The reason is that Subutex is buprenorphine only, just a narcotic pain pill. It does not have the naloxone antagonist in it to prevent the feeling of getting "high" from the pain pill. So Subutex does not do the same thing as Suboxone. It does not keep you from getting high whereas the naloxone in Suboxone does exactly that. It prevents you from getting high off the buprenorphine. So Suboxone gives you the pain pill to satisfy your body's need for what you are addicted to, but the naloxone keeps you from getting high from it so the end result is that you are able to get past withdrawals with no sickness but at the same time you are starting to learn to get by without getting high. After you get past the withdrawal period, your addiction is all mental because you are not physically addicted or getting physically sick due to lack of pain pills. The reason they give Subutex to pregnant women is that it is believed to be safer than Suboxone or even other pain pills too. So they do not have to go through withdrawals while pregnant and as soon as they give birth they are put on the Suboxone. The doctors keep everything under control but in order to keep the pregnant woman comfortable they let them have Subutex. There is less chance of the baby being born addicted when using Subutex compared to when using Oxy or Morphine.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 8:37 pm 
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Hello Caine, unfortunately your understanding of the difference between these two meds is a common one, but actually the naloxone is in the Suboxone to deter iv abuse of the medicaction, nothing more. the ceiling effect of bupe is what prevents one from getting high from the drug, meaning that once a certain blood level of buprenorphine is reached taking additional buprenorphine will not provide a high. the buprenorphine itself  is what prevents a person from becoming high on other opiates while taking buprenorphine. naloxone has extremely poor bio availability when taken orally. however, you're not alone in this common misconception about Suboxone versus subutex. some doctors don't even understand the difference, therefore will not rx the mono product bupe, which is a shame because it can be a real money saver for uninsured patients who pay for treatment out of pocket. fortunately, some of this is beginning to change as people gain a better understanding of addiction and it's treatment with medication. If you visit www. naabt.org, this is explained or visit http://www.suboxonetalkzone.com and enter key words Suboxone and subutex are clinically identical, you will find articles that go into even greater detail about the way suboxone and subutex work, than my simplistic explanation here. thanks


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 8:40 pm 
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Caine0001,

I just finished typing what Lizzie said but hers got put up first. Thanks Lizzie!


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Don't take yourself so damn seriously


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 8:45 pm 
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aww man, didn't mean to beat you to it dude, but gonna give this link, THANKS :-)

www.suboxonetalkzone.com/is-suboxone-cl ... enorphine/

www.suboxonetalkzone.com/wasting-resources-on-suboxone/


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 9:58 pm 
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When my primary source was dry, one of my occasional sub sources, (whom I deleted from phone and asked him not to call if he was looking to sell a couple-few, along with the others, minus one exception who violated his probation for a possession charge after a dirty drop, and was put into long term treatment.. when he called, I decided to keep his number, as he seemed to really want to stay clean when I talked to him, after he gained phone privileges at the treatment facility and called me... /long story tangent) was a veteran, I think I was one of the first people to get some of the generic sub via an unsanctioned route (AKA, "on the street"). According to him, the generic is the only version they give vets with opiate addiction problems, at the VA. I think the VA started using it as soon as patent expired to cut costs (and the generic manufacturer might have a special deal with the VA, since it is a massive contract to have, quantity-wise) before regular pharmacies started dispensing it.

Anyhow, I wouldn't be scared. If there is any difference, it must be negligible, as I couldn't tell myself, if there was any difference. And my daily dose was relatively small @ 2 mg, compared to others, so a slight difference in strength on the weaker side, would have been more pronounced to me, I assume.


Last edited by no_boop_shoo_be_doop on Sun Jul 20, 2014 12:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 12:44 am 
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snowwhite wrote:
raudy1975 wrote:
Hello TIKI!

I was in your same situation and the beginning of the year. My insurance would not cover the Suboxone sublinquel films but the generic.

At first I was reluctant and mainly worried that it would not feel the same, but let me tell you. I CAN NOT tell the difference and the new generic tastes 10 times better. So I hope this helps in saying that I would take the leap and go the generic route, because they are cheaper (for no insurance) and they work the same ( for those that have insurance cover on them).


Hi Raudy,
in this post u said you cant tell the difference btw the generic and the suboxone films, but in another post u said u cant tell the difference with the Zubsolv. Im confused? The reason im asking is b/c I CAN tell a huge difference in the generics I just got a week ago and im trying to get all the info I can before I tell my DR she has to change my RX. Its been a week on these generics pills and im feeling absolutely horrible, when 2 wks ago I was fine on the films.


It might be the switch to pills from films that is more of a problem. But I dunno *shrugs*. I just know I didn't notice a diff with generic pills. I hope you get your strips back, But in the meantime, just in case the prob for you is more along the line of 'strip bioavailability vs pill bioavailability ' , then, try holding it in your mouth longer (as long as you realistically can) before spitting it out. Also, if after some time, there is a lot of saliva build up, swish it all over your mouth. Even gargle if you have a lot of saliva. Also, use tongue to 'paint' it on to all of your mouth's surfaces too, like along gums, etc. The more mucous membranes the sub is exposed to and covers, the better, as it will absorb through all of them in the mouth, it is just fastest under the tongue because of the veins there. I don't really want to recommend snorting, as it might be a using trigger for you, but if you don't think it would be, that has a higher rate of bioavailability then sublingual. But if you're on a high dose, snorting could be really nasty if you normally take your dose all at once, cuz of all the innocuous binder powders. And snorting it also has a slight "burn" to it. In the event you DO snort, don't swallow after, as some might drain into throat and mouth. If that happens, clear throat like you're about to spit a loogie, to move some of it to the front of your mouth, and swish around like I recommended for sublingual saliva build-up. Sniffing gently is best, just to get it into the nasal mucous membranes, rather than a heavy snort, which often makes novices to using the nasal route gag, because it can enter the throat and lungs.

Another tip - that seemed to work for me anyway - is to gargle with the green version of Listerine immediately before using suboxone, obviously after spitting out the Listerine (spit out as much as you can of the Listerine). Why? Listerine has alcohol in it, which increases bioavailbility of sub when alcohol is lingering in the mucous membranes after a Listerine wash, and Listerine also has menthol (I am not sure if the other flavors of Listerine have menthol; I think they do, but I always buy the "everfresh" green version), and menthol is used in Zubsolv to increase buprenorphine's bioavailability.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 10:15 pm 
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It is concerning that anyone taking this drug for rehabilitation from narcotics, actually thinks it can be 'watered down' from saliva. It isn't an alcoholic beverage! Medications do not become 'watered down'(affecting strength) under ANY circumstances and believing this to be possible screams of a complete lack of common sense.
I have Lupus, RA, OA among a few other Lupus associated ailments. My ins.does NOT cover this drug because it is prescribed to me 'off label'. I was on pain pills for almost 20 yrs. I took myself off several times and even though I pushed through the agonizing withdraw every time (with help from this or any other drug) I always ended up back on pills for pain . Going thru Costco size bottles of Aleve monthly was not an alternative. The last trip to ER brought my wonderful doctor into my life. And Suboxone.
While I began taking this drug to stay off pills, I thought I'd still have the issue at hand. But I didn't! While not as pain free and feeling 15 again.. as with pills, Suboxone knocks the constant throbbing down to a level I can live with and still function normally.
So I now take three 8mg tabs a day. I began on Sub films and have been through 30 days or more of EVERY substitute/generic manufactured.
Anyone complaining that whatever generic they take isn't 'as good' as Sub Films, are living and speaking from the mindset of an addict. Period. 8mg of bupe is 8mg of bupe. PERIOD. Jack Daniels is the same alcohol content as George Dickles and produces THE SAME results. One doesn't get 'less drunk' because Dickles is a cheaper brand! The laws of physics are not altered for generic users! The only altered state, is that of the consumer/ addicts thought process that nothing else other than the best (in this case, that is erroneously considered to be the name brand and most expensive BY FAR, Suboxone.) is going to work the best.
It is fundamentally flawed thinking.
As is believing a prescribed medication can be watered down. Lol


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