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 Post subject: Scared to death
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:25 pm 
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I stopped using a needle 9 years ago and went straight to pills, I take around 200 10/325 a month and decided to start the films. My first dose was a 4mg and within 3 seconds of laying it under my tongue I felt heat shoot through me, me head fell back I got sick to my stomach and was terribly messed up for about 5 hours . The next day I tried a 2 and still within seconds had that feeling shoot through me. There were plenty of times in my past I should not have survived and I feel now I'm trying to do right and it's gonna kill me.ive even been so scared I've tried to scrape it off for fear something wasn't right. Please answer back if this is normal or adverse reaction! Thank you for your time !


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 Post subject: Re: Scared to death
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:50 pm 
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You're not dying, but you sound like you are having precipitated withdrawals. This occurs when you don't first detox off the opioids you are on before you take the suboxone.

I calculated your usage and it averages out to be 6.5 10/325mg a day. Is that correct? Did you go straight from taking 65mg of oxy to 4mg of suboxone? Although 65mg isn't a super high amount, it's about what I was on (60 to 100mg a day) when I started suboxone. But I waited about 60 hours from my last 10/325 to starting the suboxone. I was in moderate withdrawals when I started suboxone. How long did you wait?

I'm waiting to see what you tell me before I make suggestions. If you answer my questions I will get right back with you.

Amy

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 Post subject: Re: Scared to death
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:48 pm 
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Welcome to the forum! You leave us with many questions. Did you get induced by your doctor and take the advice of being in withdrawal before taking it for the first time?

Can you give us a little more info to work with?

It will get better especially if you give us more info so we can help you.

rule

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 Post subject: Re: Scared to death
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:46 pm 
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Hell js,

As Amy and rule have said, we need more information. Usually as Amy's also pointed out,
sudden adverse reactions are usually precipitated withdrawal caused by taking suboxone film
too soon after last dose of your opiate of choice.

But 2 or 3 seconds sounds too quick to be that. It takes a couple minutes for the drug (buprenorphine)
to be absorbed in the blood stream and reach the brain. I had PW and it was some minutes before I felt it.

That said, I'm not a doctor. Perhaps it is possible to be affected sooner than that.

In any case, hoping you'll come back and give us more information. It's unlikely that someone
here...perhaps a bunch of us...won't be able to help!!


Best wishes,
Godfrey


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 Post subject: Re: Scared to death
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:13 pm 
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Narcan works that quickly. I imagine that buprenorphine can too, if taken immediately after an opioid. What do you think, G?

Amy

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 Post subject: Re: Scared to death
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:34 pm 
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"Narcan works that quickly"

I've read it takes about 5 minutes, though I can vouch for the information. In any case, I think it's given via a needle, or nasal spray which would speed things up I imagine,

I'm almost sure I read that bupe takes about 15 minutes to be fully absorbed. I'll see if I can find it on Talkzone.

edit: sorry that should be I can't vouch for the info...


Last edited by godfrey on Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Scared to death
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:50 pm 
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Yes I take 6 a day and I don't wait to be in withdraw, I went to sleep and took it when I woke up about 7 hours after last pill, I did however cut back to 3 a day in hopes it wouldn't be so bad! When I took the 4 and felt like I was overdosing scares me so bad I think the anxiety of it all is the worst part. I thought maybe because I don't have a gall bladder or maybe because the fibromyalgia or maybe just mayb since I lost both parents last year within 6 months of each other I'm all the sudden afraid to do die,I can tell you the tornado has been triggered for sure and I'm trying to pull out what little bit of faith I have left in my sobriety


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 Post subject: Re: Scared to death
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:28 pm 
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Hey jslaffy welcome!

Since u have a tolerance to opiates, ur not going to overdose on bupe. So don't worry about overdosing.

Is it also possible that ur freaking urself out because ur so scared? Nerves can do a whole lot physically that u wouldn't think it could. I also remember bk when I was using, if I was trying something stronger than I was used to or something different, there were times that I'd freak myself out and imagine different symptoms happening to me. I'm not saying ur imagining this, I just wanted to mention it.

Some ppl do get nauseous on buprenorphine if they have a lower tolerance and have taken too much buprenorphine but if that's the case, it still wouldn't be immediately.... like within seconds. I have no real answers for ya because I'm not sure, but it does sound like ur really scared about something bad happening, so I wanted to ask if it could possibly be ur fear that's causing some of this?

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 Post subject: Re: Scared to death
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:09 pm 
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I think Jenn had it right, Js. Too much anxiety can lead to psychosomatic symptoms. It sounds too fast to be PW, and in any case the symptoms you mention don't seem to fit PW. PW is just a fancy word for sudden WD symptoms, precipitated (caused) by buprenorphine (subs) interacting with your DOC, when not enough time has passed before taking it.

Like Jennifer, I'm guessing some of this is psychosomatic. That doesn't mean the sensations you feel aren't real...just not cause physically.

Keep posting. We'll all try to help you through it!!


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 Post subject: Re: Scared to death
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:18 pm 
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Hey all, I thought the only way to get a drug to the brain in seconds was thru the lungs w inhaled gases like anesthesia and then IV is next w ~15 seconds to brain. But still depends on the drug, dose and when it reaches a high enough concentration for its action. Same for sublingual meds - all have different times till they reach effectiveness. Not sure how much time it takes before Suboxone can cause precipitated withdrawals but seems almost impossible it would be in seconds due to the length of time it takes to get mucosually absorbed and then to reach a dose that would cause PWs...

Dragging me back to jslaffy, based on my comments above, I can't explain the lightning you felt after 3 seconds but I do agree w all the others that maybe at 7 hrs you are not waiting long enough after taking your last oxy. And that fear and anxiety, understandably, are playing a big role.

Are you new to learning about Suboxone and how to start it? Read and read here. Lots of great info and welcome aboard. Wishing you my best! P

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 Post subject: Re: Scared to death
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:54 pm 
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HI Amy,

I found that talk zone post by Dr. Junig. The article discusses ways
to get optimum bupe absorption :


"The third factor is time– the longer period of time, the longer for the buprenorphine to make contact with the mucous membranes, attach to the surface, get absorbed into the tissue, and enter the capillaries. The initial process will be the saturation of the surfaces of the mucous membranes, and the slower process will be the passage into the tissue; that is why the amount of surface area has such an important effect on absorption. Fifteen minutes is probablysufficient for most of the absorption to occur; there may be drug remaining that is attached to the surface but not yet fully absorbed, and so I recommend avoiding eating or drinking within another fifteen minutes or so after swallowing the left-over saliva."

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to say it's going to take 15 minutes to get PW. But I think 3 seconds is stretching it. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Scared to death
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:01 pm 
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I want to thank everyone for the replies and especially jennjenn for explaining that since I'm opiate tolerance I'm not going to overdose , I was not aware of the PW so I just spent the last hour reading up and am pretty sure the first day I took the 4 that's what it was! It was the most terrible feeling for 5 hours I have ever felt. It was a drunk but nasty sick drunk feeling. I can't explain what happens when I first put it under my tongue and all my hair stands up the chills and the feeling of my heart racing through me but I for sure will go into it with a more positive outlook this time! Again all of your words are greatly appreciated and have given me hope.


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 Post subject: Re: Scared to death
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:15 pm 
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Chills and heart racing sound like PW, so let's assume PW. But if you think back perhaps it wasn't actually 3 seconds. It's hard to see how your body would absorb a drug so quickly. It doesn't sound at all likely.


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 Post subject: Re: Scared to death
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:58 pm 
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I agree that you had PWs. When you didn't mention going through a period of withdrawal in your first post I felt pretty sure that is what you were dealing with. You also didn't mention having a doctor, so I was afraid you were going it alone!

I'm certainly glad you have researched now. I stayed up last night waiting for you to respond because, like you said, you were scared. I wanted to ease your mind, but you didn't come back and answer my questions.

Glad you know what is up now.

Amy

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 Post subject: Re: Scared to death
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:05 pm 
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Amy thank you again for the words of wisdom, it wasn't through a doctor the first 6 days I spoke of but since then I did go to doc and get my own script, I've been clutching it for over a week now deciding if I had the nerve to try it again but moving forward I will wait at least 24hrs after last pill to start this weekend for hopefully a better outcome with clear understanding of it all


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 Post subject: Re: Scared to death
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:19 pm 
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I also wanted to mention that I'm so sorry that you've lost both parents in the last 6 months. I don't know how old you are, but a blow like that could definitely cause anxiety and loss of confidence.

It seems like you may be ready to get your addiction under control and that is great! I would suggest this anyway, but especially because you're grieving I suggest that you find an addiction therapist to help you through your grief, and also to work on why you became addicted and what your triggers may be. One of the first things I did as I got on suboxone was to as find an addiction counselor. At this point, I can clearly say what caused me to become addicted and the things I have to avoid and be careful of, so as not to start active addiction again.

I feel for you Jslaffy. I lost my mom overnight 15 years ago and her death was very difficult to take. To lose both parents is devastating. Please stay here and let us know that you're doing Ok and taking positive steps in your life.

All the best,

Amy

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