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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 3:46 pm 
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[font=Verdana] [/font] Hey all. I'm new here (posted about my induction but that's it). I just started suboxone on Friday so, I'm currently on day 3 and feeling great. This morning I decided I would go to my first NA meeting just to listen and see what it's all about. I knew it was my first meeting so I was supposed to sit in the back, shut up and listen. That is what I did. The meeting was fine. It was mainly just people telling their horror stories of crazy shit they did in active addiction but still, it was fine.

Anyway, after the meeting, I was swarmed by a bunch of guys my age. Most of the women there were older so, I guess they weren't used to having a young female come to the meetings, I don't know. They were basically just hitting on me, not really asking about my recovery or addiction. That was annoying but if I knew what was about to happen, I would have much rather stayed and got hit on! A middle aged woman grabbed my arm and pulled me across the room to a group of about 5 or 6 other ladies. THAT is when things got really bad. She was asking me about what I was addicted to and everything and I told her opiate pain pills. I was hesitant to tell them I was on suboxone because I had heard about them having negative feelings about it but they kept asking me "how do you look so good and seem so happy if you're in withdrawal? Were you really addicted because if you were, you'd be in horrible withdrawal right now..." So I finally told them that I just started a suboxone program. Oh gosh. Bad move. They began YELLING so everyone standing around after the meeting could hear everything telling me I wasn't in recovery, I was still using. I am still just as bad as an addict now as I was on other drugs. They told me I needed to give my beginner's keychain back because I did not really have a clean date, I'm still in active addiction. One woman said my son deserved better than to have a doped up mother and I was selfish and had "a lot to learn about being a good mother." I was red with embarrassment and trying not to cry. But I did start crying but they kept on going anyway. The woman who pulled me over in the first place told me that therapy and counseling would do nothing for my addiction and addiction treatment and therapy were "miles apart" and had nothing to do with each other. I told her I was bipolar and needed the therapy and anti depressants, too. She told me if I got off suboxone and worked the 12 steps and kept coming back that my bipolar disorder would go away without therapy or my medication. I told her I had bipolar disorder since I was 13, way before I started using drugs and she told me my doctors didn't know anything.

At this point, my husband finally pulled up and I ran to the car hysterical without even saying bye or anything. Even then, they were yelling after me "You're not ready yet, come back when you're off drugs and really ready to get into recovery!"

Are the things they were saying true? Am I wrong to have a 'clean date' while on suboxone? I'm so confused! I thought I was doing the right thing by taking the step to get off pills and get into my suboxone program?! This was the WORST experience I've ever had in my life. I've never been treated that way or spoken to like that by other adults at all that I can remember. My program has suboxone group therapy twice a month and I think I'm just going to stick with that as my "meetings". I'm sorry but I will never step foot in another NA meeting again in my life! I am still trying to calm down.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 4:07 pm 
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OH MY EFFING GOD!!!!!! I AM SO IRATE RIGHT NOW I CAN BARELY TYPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I JUST WANT YOU TO KNOW THAT NOT ONE SINGLE THING THAT THOSE LOW LIFE PIECES OF IGNORANT TRASH SAID TO YOU IS TRUE!!!!!!! i WILL BE BACK LATER WHEN CALM DOWN. DO NOT LET THESE UNEDUCATED JEALOUS WOMEN RUIN YOUR RECOVERY FOR YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am not abandoning this. I swear honey. I really need to calm down before I type anymore. Keep your head up. YOu are a terrific mommy and you are doing the best thing for YOU and your recovery. Not THEM and THEIR recovery. Recovery is an individual program. You know what works for you, and now thanks to those idiots, you know what wont work. I have absolutely been where you are. I am so sorry. My jaw fell to the floor reading this. Seriously, I'll be back, but in the meantime. Relax. YOU are a great mother and don't you dare let those ugly women take that from you. Look at your child! Do not question what kind of mother you are!

This is why I left AA. They didn't believe in psych meds for my depression. So I guess they would rather me slit my wrists or hang myself than take a pill???? Ignorant. At best.

I am sure you are going to get TONS of feedback on this. Just try to stay positive.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 5:16 pm 
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Fucking NA.....they're such a bunch of fucking hypocrits!!! Smoking cigarettes and drinking coffee (both of which have drugs in them) is perfectly OK, but nothing else. You can smoke cigarettes until smoke comes out your ears or drink coffee until you pee your pants, but by gosh, don't get involved with opiate replacement therapy!!

I attended NA daily for almost 1 year. I got a lot out of the program, but as for the fellowship, they suck ass!! What those people did to you is unpardonable. Those fucking idiots forget that the ONLY requirement for membership is a DESIRE to stay clean. NOWHERE does it say you have to be clean to attend NA. All that bullshit is beside the point anyway......you're on Suboxone, you're as clean as you think you are. If you consider yourself to be clean while on Suboxone, then guess what, you are!!!

I'm so sorry you had such a crappy experience with NA, but truth be told, most all of the meetings I've been to.....NA is full of the sickest people in the world.....including the folks with lots of clean time.....hell, some of those folks are the sickest of the sickest!!!

NA consists of two things, the program and the fellowship. For some reason, the fellowship nowadays has twisted and convoluted the program and it's a shame.

Like you said, attend your group therapy, it will most likely be some kind of 12 step based recovery, but without all the NA bullshit.

I'm really sorry I swore so much during this reply, but I've seen what happened to you happen in some of the meetings I went to and it's just disgusting and it makes my blood boil.

NA is a program that's supposed to help addicts, but again, somewhere along the line, the crazy ass addicts who think they run the local NA meetings are drunk with power and have basically corrupted the ideals and core beliefs of the program.

Phew, I haven't let loose a rant like that in a while.....sorry about that, but I think all of that needed to be said.

Before anyone jumps my shit, all of what I said was MY experience with NA. You're experience may differ....I hope to God it does!

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 5:49 pm 
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This sucks, I was encouraged to go to AA by my sub doctor who was very involved in drug recovery. His specialty was addiction, he even said that ppl in NA in our area were too sick and the recovery at AA might be a better chance for me. So I don't know about NA, Never been But wanted to offer my support.

Joanie, you are clean! And your kid is lucky not to have a mom like that jerk control freak lady at the meeting!! I mean wtf is wrong with people.

When I went to AA before I moved away, my sponsor who was an old time aa guy was totally cool with my sub. He said I was sober, no question. I'm not drinking, not drugging and taking a prescribed medicine from a doctor. Period. There were dicks at meetings who found out from my big mouth friend that I was on sub. They didn't even know what it was but were happy to tell me to stop taking it. For real.

To goingstrong- AA itself officially does not have an opinion about meds either way. if its prescribed by your doctor and you take whatever it is as prescribed, AA is supposed to not be concerned with it. the people who give you shit are what Romeo said, sickos. there may be another group who is totally cool. I had to go to many different groups to find the right fit for me. It's f-ing insane big book thumpers want to tell people what meds not to take. F-ing morons.

AA and NA are supposed to be about humility. We're supposed to learn that we don't know shit before we can get better right?

8)

-glen b

P.s. one of our local mods has the screen name which comes from 12 step that fits perfectly with this subject. Rule 62: "don't take yourself too damn seriously". those ladies at the meeting need to remember that.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 5:50 pm 
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You've gotten some really good advice already Joanie, and welcome, by the way!!!

Im sooo sorry you were treated this way. I used to attend AA, they were much more understanding about suboxone therapy, then it seems like they are at NA. who knows the reason!!! But that was my experience.

Anyways, as time goes on, you will KNOW in your HEART, your clean date, is when you stopped lying, stealing and whatever else to get opiates/pain pills/whatever. At least thats how I look at it. I see my clean date, as my first day of NOT being high.

And I HATE, that people think suboxone isnt 'clean' cuz let me tell you, I kicked as hard as EVER coming off the methadone, going onto suboxone therapy. it wasnt just a week long, or two weeks. it was months of restless legs, and sweats, and every other unbearable thing.
BUT , the ONLY reason I made it, was BECUZ of the suboxone. thats why I failed miserably, at ever attempt prior to then, without suboxone.

So, you keep YOUR clean date, for whenever YOU FEEL it is. and you can order chips/coins (even tshirts) off the net, for really cheap I might add, as you hit your 'birthdays'
that what I DO!!
fuck'm thats what I say!!!

You are doing the right thing, and I am too.
Everyone else can mind thier own damn bussiness, right??????


again, welcome, and I hope you stick around. theres lotsa good support here!!!

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:22 pm 
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That's a shame you went thru that. My experience with NA was pretty similar to what the others have expressed. I didn't get berated for suboxone, but only because I didn't tell them. I watched them gang up on a methadone patient at the time though and couldn't believe it. They all were quick to rip this guy but no one dared attack the people that were there buying/selling drugs in the parking lot. They pretended not to see them..

I got the feeling the meetings in my area were run by a couple self righteous wackos and consisted of them, whoever they could brainwash into joining their clique, and a bunch of various people that were there by court order. It was a very strange mix that's for sure. I went a few times and never went back. I agree that AA seemed to be a better fit around my area.

I actually feel bad saying that because I know the NA program itself is great and has helped a lot of people. The ones in my area just seemed to have a bunch of judgmental douchebags chasing people away. I'm sure there are good ones out there- though I'll never know because, like you, I decided to not go back.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:12 am 
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FUcking assholes.

It still amazes me how so many doctors and rehab centres refer people to this program of quackery. I should know I did NA for 3 years at least.

After being a part of that fellowship for some time, I may have an idea of the kinda motivation that led the women to trying to cut you down. There's a LOT of politics in those rooms, largely based around sex and cliqueyness and jealousy. The women in the rooms probably saw all the guys sleazing onto you and found a new young attractive woman to be a threat, taking the attention they had from them, so they were just looking for some kinda reason to make you run. It's really pathetic like that.

What angers me even more is how predatory the guys can be in those rooms. At its worst, when an attractive young newcomer came to a meeting, I saw no less than 6 guys literally swarm on her at the meeting's close. In the background the women in the meeting were already bitching about her.

How is it that such a "spiritual solution" to addiction can be devoid of morality and compassion?

To put it in perspective. These are people who, the moment they got out of active addiction, made a decision to continue hanging around people whose characters were moulded by years in jail, wheeling and dealing on the streets and using drugs before everything else. How can these people possibly learn how to become socially acceptable if their only "normal" is continuing to hang around other "defective" characters? After 3 years in those rooms I realised the only way for me to become normal and socially acceptable would be to hang around non-addicts and let their kindness and balance rub off on me. I look back at the person I was while doing NA - and despite being all programmed up and working the steps, I was a much sicker person than I am now on Sub. A lot of that predatory sexual behaviour rubbed off on me, and I became a bit of a sex addict and misogynist just because my sponsor and his friends were all the same. I'm glad I'm no longer the person I was on those rooms.

There are other options for programs if you want peer support. I'd suggest SMART recovery. They're much more open to pharmacotherapies like Sub, methadone, campral, naltrexone etc.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:05 am 
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thats odd, cuz my sponsor who also chairs meetings, is on suboxone. everyone knew i was on it and they considered me clean. romeo is right though, i have never seen such a messed up bunch of people. i think each group makes up their own rules


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:48 am 
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Wow Joanie! I'm so sorry that you had such a bad experience at your first NA meeting and those women that talked to you that way, fuck them! That is absolutely NOT the way to talk to anyone, especially from a group of people who are supposed to be helping others.

My first question is, Why are they even asking you about what you were on, what your DOC was?

It says in one of the NA pamphlets I have right in front of me, "We are not interested in what or how much you used or who your connections were, what you have done in the past, how much or how little you have, but only what you want to do about your problem and how we can help. The newcomer is the most important person at any meeting, because we can only keep what we have by giving it away." This is also read aloud at the beginning of EVERY meeting I've ever attended!

It is outright none of their business what you were using, how little or how much you used, or why you're not as sick as think you should be from coming off your meds.

I do go to NA, twice a week, but I've never been treated this way! I also keep my suboxone treatment to myself. I don't disclose it to them, because like a lot of others have already said, I don't feel like it's anyone else's business. I know that I am CLEAN! I am not the same person I was before I started subs, I don't lie, cheat or steal. I take a medication every day that is prescribed to me by my doctor. My doc did warn me when he referred me to NA that some people that go do have the mindset that they are somehow better than someone else in the rooms because maybe they didn't use methadone or suboxone to get of the pills. He also told me that these are some of the same people who will have their drug dealer meet them in the parking lot after a meeting...my dr is pretty blunt and honest. I agree with Romeo, they stand around smoking cigs and drinking the hell out of the coffee before, during and after the meetings, but they seem to think they're better than someone who is on a legitament prescription.

I tend to keep to myself at meetings and I take what I need and what I can use to help ME, and I leave the rest there. I look around at all the people who come in on paper, they are there because it's manadatory. A judge or a parole officer is making them go, and most of them are only "clean" right now because they have to be. It's sad to say, but most of those people come in, they preach it while they're there, but as soon as they're released from their probation officers, they are back on their DOC or whatever other drug they can get. We are there because we genuinely want to be, no ones forcing us, we are making steps towards getting better, on our own. You keep your clean date, and you celebrate your birthdays. You don't need their key tag or tokens to validate that!

I also completely, 100% agree with Tear. Those women saw the guys swarm you, and that made them jealous. I'm not saying that is your fault either or that you did ANYTHING to draw attention to yourself from those guys. That's just the way it is, there's a lot of politics and completely wrong sexual behavior that goes on in and around those rooms. During my first few meetings, they passed around a paper for all the newcomers to get the phone numbers of other members to reach out to. I noticed at the top of mine it said "Women Only." I asked a girl that I've known for awhile and has been attending AA and NA for 3 years about it, and she told me that there was just too much sexual stuff going on between members and a few husbands and wives have had to quit the fellowship because they start calling other men and/or women for support, then it leads to sneaking around and screwing on the side... So now when someone new comes in they try to divert that by not giving out numbers of oppisite sex members. Some of those guys (and women) are there to prey on hopeless, vulnerable women. They act like they are there to support you, but in reality they know you're at a rough time in your life and they prey on that. I made it clear from the get go that I was HAPPILY married and NOT interested in talking to any men outside of the rooms. It's worked out pretty well, I don't ever feel uncomfortable before, during or after a meeting. I go, I take what I need, I leave the rest, which includes any man looking for a woman to hook up with.

It's pretty much just like any other organization... There's gonna be a lot of hyprocrits and a few ignorant people in every group that's gonna turn other people off from the get-go. I think that if you think NA can work for you, to give it another shot at a different meeting. I know what you went thru was horrible though, and you may never want to try it again, and I can't say that I'd blame you. I had to go to several meetings before I found the couple meetings that I really like and felt comfortable with. The others, I just didn't care for the atmosphere and most of the people. I use this forum now mostly for support, so if I miss a meeting I don't beat myself up about not reaching out to people. Did your dr reffer you to meetings? Does he require it along with your treatment? Mine does, but I also told him about this forum and he agrees that it's probably just as good as going to a meeting, if not better because here I can be completely honest. Like I said, he knows how some people react to others on suboxone, he warned me ahead of time.

Whatever you decide to do, you know that you have our support here! Don't take anything those women said to you to heart. You know that your life is getting better, I see that in your posts here and from your induction post. You are putting your baby boy, your husband, and yourself before the pills and you genuinelly sound great, other than being upset here which you have every right to be! We're all here rooting for you, we know your clean, so do you and that's all that matters!


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:20 pm 
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Back in the mid 90's after 3 years in the State Penn. i was released with some strict requriments, one of which was to attend daily NA meetings. I wanted to attend because i truly didn't want to relapse and go back into prison ( i served 3 years of a 6 year sentence) for the remainder of my sentence. I was one of those that had to have the "paper" signed after every meeting so everyone there assumed that i was there for that reason only, and i felt like an outsider from day one. There was some discussion over the authenticity of me recieving my sobriety coins because i hadnt been on the streets all that time, i humbly accepted them in the end. I wanted to participate so much more but i could feel the indifference whenever i spoke so i learned to shut up and fell into the stereotype of someone there just because they had to be. I stayed clean and sober for over a decade until i found a new addiction to opiates and when i knew i needed help to get my life back on track, i never considered NA or AA to ba a part of my recovery. The first few visits to my sub Dr. he asked me if i had gone to any NA meetings yet i kept saying not yet and he kept telling me how important it was to have some kind of addiction therapy so i joined the here to help program and told him that it was kinda helping and he was ok with that. I wanted to tell him about this forum but i have a secret fear that he would be able to "single me out" on here and i dont want that. I think i get a lot of support on this forum from people who are living pretty much the same nightmare i have lived.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:48 pm 
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My first addiction problem was to alcohol first and drugs second. Ended up finally getting the message in AA meetings although it took a good 10 years of slipping to get it.

You might want to try AA instead and if they ask you to identify just say you're an alcoholic/addict and you'll be accepted just fine. Saying you're on Sub is a different matter. It's been years since I was a newcomer but I do remember learning about the "13th step" pretty quickly. It means picking up sick newcomers for a relationship and I was instructed by my sponsor to avoid that behavior, which I did.

But wow, there is such a strong attraction to a sick young female from a sick male member it was very difficult to avoid contact. I did end up dating a few but it was after they'd been there for a year and even then the relationships crashed and burned. Two sicko's = one huge sicko.

If you don't like AA, go with another program other than a 12 step one like Rational Recovery. Or try a different NA meeting and tell the men "no 13 stepping allowed" and see if that helps. Or when you first go in try to get there a little early and get to know one of the women and explain your problem with the men at meetings. She'll keep you under her wing. And like the others, I don't think it's wise to mention Suboxone until you have been there for awhile and know how the temperament is.

I am so sorry you were abused like that. The meetings are for recovery not for abuse. They forget the traditions and the rules of the group.

At least you landed here.

R

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:07 am 
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joeny 5/12'. i'm also sorry . it just go's to show when you go to a crowd of sick people with not much control how can any one put there mind at ease enough to even think about sobriety. go some place where you can get true help.
more AA/NA Curruption :(

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:20 am 
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dicespin". me and my sub doc are truly keeping my contract up to date that suboxone talkzone is my meetings. may be your doc would be help full about it? and the same for you joeiny 512 :)

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:56 pm 
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Wow! That is just awful what happened to you! In my area I haven’t experienced nothing even close to some of the horror stories I’ve read on here. And yes, I have told some of the sponsors I was currently on suboxone.

I was recommended AA over NA because of a lot of these reasons. To all of the AA meetings I’ve tried I introduced myself as an addict and they are okay with that. It may be something worth trying if you like these 12-step meetings. Personally, they seem to help a lot of people who work the steps but I haven't gotten that far into it.

I also think it's very important to find a sponsor you connect with. Also, I don’t consider myself an alcoholic so sometimes it is hard to relate to some of the people, but because they typically don’t say the actual drug or drink and rather just say "use". Good luck!


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:30 pm 
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i also had many sponser's '. and they were just as sick as me and led me blind. every one would have guts /faith/faith/faith
in a program that is not by all means any church on a great sunday morning and far from it. to me AA/NA is great for the 5 to ten % that put there total life in to the program. other wise'. it just go's to show evidently.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:10 pm 
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DO NOT LISTEN TO A WORD THEY SAID!!!! From my experience, 12 step programs are filled with busy-bodies, perverts, and judgmental self-serving scumbags. You are doing the right thing, you have a very strong foundation if you've already signed up here this early on in your suboxone program. Seeking out support like you have is a HUGE step I've learned. Anyways, disregard anything and everything that was said to you after the meeting. It was no coincidence that this came right after you were getting attention from some of the guys there. It stemmed from PURE JEALOUSY! Makes me sick really.


Anyways, I'm glad I read this. I was just thinking about giving NA another shot, as I've had repeated bad experiences there, and this sealed the deal for me. I will not step foot in the "rooms" anytime soon. I'd rather post here for support then go to some cliquey high-school environment like NA. AA is a little better, but I just feel like almost every single person involved in either is judgmental, gossipy, or power-tripping...or ALL 3! I had a sponsor who never told me he was gay, then started trying to buy me stuff and take me out places, finally starting hitting on me repeatedly and I almost punched his teeth down his throat. I later learned his nickname around the rooms was "Sneaky Keith". Fitting if you ask me. Also have had numerous members snicker or roll their eyes when I rarely spoke up. They have some slogan about how you need to get involved for it to be effective but when I tried to get involved and share, many of the people couldn't have done a better job trying to make sure I never did again. Anyways, someone recently recommended to me that I give it a shot again but I most certainly will not. I will stick with my psych, suboxone, and family/clean friends.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:22 pm 
WOWZA?! For real , wtf. I was thinkin about attending meetings but i am the worlds biggest procrastinator. After hearin this complete bullshit I dont know if i want to be around people on their power trips like this. And dont anyway say it was only like this at that meeting. Because ROMEO is right, those people that run it are drunk on their power trip because for once in their lives they have a position of leadership or control. haha I feel like a meanie but come on dudes and bettys i'm pretty sure i would run into that kinda thing if i went to a meeting. and to me Judgement doesnt sit well at fuckin all with me.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 2:37 am 
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Joanie, I just want to add to what everyone else here has said. Don't even give a second thought to what those cows were shouting at you. I've never been to an NA meeting and this is exactly why. How dare they call out a new, vulnerable person in recovery and give them that load of bs! I kind of wish that a few of us could get together and go egg them as they come out of their meeting! I know that's not very mature, but surely they deserve it.

I have been to Smart Recovery meetings and there is absolutely no judgement from people there about suboxone. There are plenty of truly supportive groups out there, so I encourage you to keep seeking. And definitely stick around here! Lots of supportive and knowledgeable folks here.

Take care.

Amy

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 8:38 am 
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Hi Joanie, are you there? I'd love to hear how you are!

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JoanieI am so deeply sorry for how you were treated. That is disgusting behaviour. Of course you are in recoveryn at moment you are vulnerable n deserve SUPPORT n RESPECT not to be treated like that. I, too am on suboxone dosed at 8 mg per day. Please do not let anyone judge you. You are more than welcome to message me if ever you need anyone to talk to. Big hug
Evey xxx
PS I've had similar experiences but on forums so please DO NOT LET ANYONE say you're not in recovery ok. You are xxxx

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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

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