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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:42 pm 
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Hello All! This is my 1st post here (i prolly shuda started with an introduction, but oh well) and im currently riding the miserable "I just quit subs" train! For what its worth, I feel purty damn good...except for the fact that i cant sleep! (I know,I know...no big suprise!). A lil bit bout Me, Im 42yrs old and have had numerous wrecks (before someone says "learn to drive", only 1 was my fault so :P ) for which I ended up on opiates. Vikes,Lortab etc. After a while I couldnt get the Drs to continue feeding my new habit so i went to the streets and eventually ended up on methadone (cheaper,lasted longer and I felt a lil more in control of my life)...WHATEVER makes you feel better about being an addict,right? I finally had enough of illegal activity to feed my habit so I went on the outpatient Suboxone program so I could continue to work and raise my young son (single Father...longer story). I tried to quit 1 or 2 times in the 3 yrs of being on Suboxone. Very Very Very hard to be a structural fitter when your used to opiates so I would ALWAYS cave & go back. Now, I have a new loving wife (who also works) to help raise my son and we are currently trying to purchase a house. Ive been at my current job for 5 yrs and things are going well for us except for my $300 Dr visit every 2 mos and the rising cost of subs at the pharmacys. Last Wednesday I scheduled for some vacation time so I could jump off at the 2mg a day that I was taking. Yes I did taper but not to the .5mg or so that ive read others have tapered to. I am on day 10 now and every day is better than the last. I refuse to take Rx meds to sleep so Im doing the all natural thing (valarian rt, melatonin, passion flower. etc.)all to no avail! Since My 2nd day off ive had MAYBE 1-2hrs sleep every 2 days! Man this is tuff!! I am going back to work Monday and am really worried about not sleeping enough. I work 4- 10hr days and its just about impossible to do my job with little or no sleep(not to mention I dont wish to cut any of my extremities off). My Supervisor is sympathetic to my situation but that doesnt mean I can just show up and stand around. I can sustain my performance IF I sleep, but am not sure how this will turn out since right now I cannot sleep. I CAN & WILL stay off of these subs because of the support from Family & Friends behind me, but they cannot fathom this feeling without sleep and I really just wanted to VENT here since ive been reading posts from this forum all week. Thanks for listening and please pray for the sandman or sleep fairy to come by and club me on my head so i can sleep! Also, any ideas for peaceful rest would be MOST appreciated.
Thanks again, Billy


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 5:20 pm 
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Hey Billy,

Welcome to our little slice of heaven!!

So, you've been off Suboxone for 10 days and you still can't sleep right and you got some RLS, that's completely normal, but it does BLOW, doesn't it?

Just to fill ya in on my credentials, so you know I'm not full of shit with my recommendations or advice, I quit Suboxone from a "non-optimal" dose when I was 42 years old too. In 2 days, I celebrate 2 years off of Suboxone!! I also got on opiates after an accident, but I didn't do anything cool like wreck my car, I fell out of a fuckin' Oak Tree. 1 chain saw, 1 25ft extension ladder, 1 oak tree and 1 idiot = OUCH!! I also was on Suboxone for 3 years. Dang, you and I are like twins (I would be the better looking, more intelligent twin BTW) :lol:

OK, so you don't wanna use any prescription meds to sleep, I was the same way. I figured, I'm getting off drugs, I don't want any other drugs on board. After 30 days of craptacular sleep (1 to 2 hours per night), I went to the Doctor and got Clonidine. Clonidine is a Blood Pressure med that's prescribed off label for opiate wd. It calms the Sympathetic Nervous System and has a sedative effect (yay for the sedative effect!!). It is NON addictive, non-habit forming. Immediately, I went from 2 hours per night of sleep to 4 or 5 hours per night. BTW, I tried ALL the herbal remedies too.....none of them did squat for me either.

The RLS, I even found some herbal thing for RLS....again, it didn't do squat!! I found getting on my eliptical machine and running until my legs couldn't run anymore gave me 2 to 3 hours of relief from the RLS. BTW, running until my legs couldn't run anymore only took 2 or 3 minutes, it was enough to exhaust my legs where they wouldn't twitch and carry on. Also, the RLS seemed to subside fairly quickly.....maybe a couple of weeks?

The first 10 days or so are about the worst for Suboxone wd, things will improve, but many find that the improvements come in fits and starts. A lot of us call it the roller coaster effect.

You have a great attitude (actually, your's is the first ever "coming off of Suboxone" post that made me laugh out loud!). Your attitude will help you greatly.

Also, I think you'll be amazed at just how well you can function during the day on very little sleep. I know I was astounded to be able to go to work, function pretty normally, all while on very little sleep. We are stronger than we know.

Getting back to work is actually going to be a good thing. It will take your mind off of how crappy you feel. Wd is such a mind game. The more you can keep your mind busy, the better you should feel. Keeping your body busy helps too. Any kind of light exercise will probably exhaust you, but it's good for you and your recovery.

Here's a little 2 minute video I love to watch, it always inspires me. Give it a quick look.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oa1j2kBIYOw

Hang tough, man.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:30 pm 
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Thanks Romeo. Nice Video, too.
I do have a GOOD camp in my corner for this bout, so Im 100% sure I WILL SUCCEED!! Yes, I am a boxing fan. (Great one coming on Showtime tonight...I cant wait!! 8) )

I have thought about the clonidine but I dont have healthcare anymore (a neccessary cutback to purchase our home) so ill try to find a Dr. that wont brake me for a visit. Once we close on our house (June 15 hopefully) we can restart healthcare and 401k, etc. As far as calling the Dr that was writing the subs for me, He's a total quack that pretty much shoved me out for new patients because he raised his rates! Not that Im bitching about being off the Subs, I was WAAAAAYYYY ready for that BS to end. Anyhow, he says I can always come to see him on a Physc visit for $100! Gee.....Thanks Doc! Ya Prik.

So how long did you have to keep on the Clonidine?
Did it really help that much??

Its weird tho, I really do feel pretty good since...ummm day 6 maybe. Like you mentioned, It comes and goes (the rollercoaster) but you CAN push through. Not at ALL like the 5 days of detox off methadone! That was GRUESOME!! Thats when I started the 3yr stint on Subs.

Your right about the sleep thing, too. Its crazy how I was able to grab the free weights and do some curls and squats...WITHOUT SLEEP FOR DAYS!!!! Maybe Im worrying for nuttin about going back in Mon.
I appreciate your post. Again, thanks.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:52 pm 
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Yeah, I really enjoy that video, there are several things about it that hit home for me. Learning how to grow up is one of them. Understanding that pain is temporary and once the pain is gone, something will replace it.....that's my favorite part. As my wd pain went away, better things did replace it. As my pain of looking in at myself, through my recovery, subsided, much better things replaced it.

I remember from your first post that you have a good support group, and that's important, but your support group can't do your recovery for you, obviously, you have to do that.

If I may, I'd like to suggest you look into some kind of recovery, be it NA, AA, Smart Recovery, leaving the country to learn how to become a monk.....I don't care what you do, but I would suggest you do some kind of recovery.

I stayed on Clonidine for months and months. Wd is fairly well known for raising one's blood pressure, plus it took me a good while before my STUPID brain would let me sleep right. I discontinued Clonidine with no trouble at all, not even a hiccup. And yes, Clonidine really did help me. But, when I quit Suboxone, I had MANY more wd symptoms than RLS and insomnia alone. The Clonidine helped smooth out a lot of my other wd symptoms, it helped me to function better.

Also, I wanted to say that I'm so impressed with you coming to this forum and not only sitting back waiting for advice, but you're also out there posting and offering your support to others, not everyone does that and I just thought that was very cool of you.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:06 am 
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Hey guys, I just wanted to add that I am only on day 4 of jumping off of suboxone and the clonidine is definitely what is helping me the most. I have had horrible RLS and the clonidine helps to lessen the symptoms greatly and I was also able to sleep last night, presumably also because of the clonidine! My doctor prescribed me 2 different benzo's to help with the WD but I have barely taken either as I know they will just make me feel much crappier down the road when I would discontinue them.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:40 am 
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Sounds like your doing whats best, MN. Hang in there it only gets better from here on out, I promise. Day 6 I went outside and washed & waxed my truck. Day 7 worked out a lil bit with free weights. You will get fatigued but you can push thru.
My biggest hang up is NO sleep at 2am while everyone else is konked out and Im in bed twitching and flopping like a perch on the bank! I will be getting some Clonidine at 1st opportunity, myself. Hang with it, bud. Its doable if your REALLY ready to quit!

Romeo, I appreciate the post, bud. I will look into a recovery system, although I have been to meetings (AA or NA) years ago and it definitely aint my thing.
Wierd thing about opiate addiction for me is my social skills went away with my sobriety! I do not like crowds or lg groups of ppl. which used to not bother me at all before the addiction. Hopefully that will remedy itself as time goes on & I think it will because the wife & I have been talking more in the last five days than we have in the last year! Among other things which I shant explain on a public forum....he he! I told her that Im starting to feel like a 16yr old! :lol:

Well last night was a restless one, as expected but I did get maybe 3 hrs total which recharged the batteries well enough to go outside today and try to do something. Ill post back later.

Hang tuff MN! WE WILL WIN!!!


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 4:05 pm 
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Yeah, the ol' sex drive does come a roarin' back, doesn't it? I was keepin' my wife busy day and night there for a while!! :lol:

Have you got any of the weird smells yet??

Mr. Stoner dude, I applaud you for taking it easy on the benzo's, it's my understanding that they're even harder to come off of than opiates.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 5:30 pm 
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Wierd smells...yep. I can smell things that I usually dont, if thats what your meaning is. LOL.
My wife & I both smoke cigs on the front porch (outside only) and I can immediately smell the ashtrays when I walk outside now.

Another unexpected symptom is my taste for soda... I just drank a coke & yuk!!
I have lost my taste for sweet drinks! Wierd. I have been a Coke, Sweet tea, Coffee fiend for years and strangely I would rather drink WATER!
Which Ive ALWAYS hated!

I believe I went a bit overboard with the free weights yesterday. I jumped on the ole bicycle this morning and my legs were sooooo sore from the 30 squats yesterday that I could barely pedal around the block! I havent burned like that in over 10yrs! lol. I know, im in pitiful shape now! I work with heavy steel 40+ hrs a wk so why work out? I get plenty of excercise walking the shop or lifting products so I really didnt want to exercise when I get home. Apperently the lifting & walking at work is NOT enough!! WHEW!!!

I definitely feel a "clear" sense of thinking now VS the fog I lived in for 10yrs! Ill bet that keeps improving also.

Well, after the bike ride and light yard work I have returned inside to relax on my last day off before returning to work tomorrow. I would love to have another 2-3 days off but im sure ill make it just fine. I KNOW ill make it. Hang Tuff fellow quitters!!
WE WILL WIN!!


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:22 pm 
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Romeo, thanks. I think I am going to discontinue use of the benzos altogether unless I have really bad anxiety, which hasn't (yet) returned since day 2. Using benzos for sleep certainly isn't going to do me any favors later down the road.

Hey 95, I hope your first day back to work today went as good as expected and you didn't get too tired out. I know that if I had tried to go to work today I would have been a useless blob on my desk!


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:02 pm 
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95shakin wrote:
Wierd smells...yep. I can smell things that I usually dont, if thats what your meaning is. LOL.
My wife & I both smoke cigs on the front porch (outside only) and I can immediately smell the ashtrays when I walk outside now.

Another unexpected symptom is my taste for soda... I just drank a coke & yuk!!
I have lost my taste for sweet drinks! Wierd. I have been a Coke, Sweet tea, Coffee fiend for years and strangely I would rather drink WATER!
Which Ive ALWAYS hated!

I believe I went a bit overboard with the free weights yesterday. I jumped on the ole bicycle this morning and my legs were sooooo sore from the 30 squats yesterday that I could barely pedal around the block! I havent burned like that in over 10yrs! lol. I know, im in pitiful shape now! I work with heavy steel 40+ hrs a wk so why work out? I get plenty of excercise walking the shop or lifting products so I really didnt want to exercise when I get home. Apperently the lifting & walking at work is NOT enough!! WHEW!!!

I definitely feel a "clear" sense of thinking now VS the fog I lived in for 10yrs! Ill bet that keeps improving also.

Well, after the bike ride and light yard work I have returned inside to relax on my last day off before returning to work tomorrow. I would love to have another 2-3 days off but im sure ill make it just fine. I KNOW ill make it. Hang Tuff fellow quitters!!
WE WILL WIN!!


Hi, 95. I know I'm chiming in kinda late, but I wanted to give you a pat on the back and a big push to keep going. You can totally do this and you will. I'm about ten months (I think) from quitting Sub after SIX YEARS on it. I feel really good. I swore up and down that I would never forget how hard it was to quit Sub, but guess what? I am forgetting....and moving on. This will be behind you before you know it. I remember the insomnia....sheesh, AND the legs!!! Maddening! Terrible!! And very consuming. I have zero advice for you, aside from the generic 'hang in there.' If you hang in there, this will be a distant memory for you too, and only in months...not years.

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:19 pm 
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BY THE GRACE OF GOD!!! I fell asleep last night and got 5 1/2 hrs of sleep in! Just what I needed before going back to work this morning. I did just fine in the AM but had a few lows after lunch. But I bucked up & pushed thru. Im actually looking foward to going in tomorrow. Hopefully Ill get some more sleep tonite.
Hang in there guys n gals. WE WILL WIN!!!


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 7:00 am 
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Its day 13 off subs, and to be quite honest im a lil aggravated this morning. I slept 0 hrs & 0 minutes last night & have no
desire to go to work this morning. I know, this doesnt sound like my positive, chipper, usual self but the lack of sleep is now taking its toll. Hopefully Ill snap out of this funk when I get moving around at work, but I kinda think Ill get drained quickly and feel shitty all day. Good news is, I dont have ANY cravings and have NO desire to dig out my last sub for help. Yes, I still have 1 strip put back to REALLY test my will (i actually had 10 but got rid of em all except the 1). I know some of you may be thinking its kinda stupid to have temptation so easily accessible but the way I see it, I wanted OFF these things and OFF Ill stay! I guess Ill pull that 1 strip out at 30 days and say HA I beat you and I dont need you anymore!

Well guys n gals, time to get dressed & go to work.
For those who have just jumped,MN,Subgirl, etc. HANG IN THERE. WE WILL WIN!!!


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 10:44 am 
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Day 13....what an achievement!! Hang in there, you have made it this far!! The no sleep thing sucks, but what I have found for a lil kick in the ass for me is I have been drinking a protein shake every morning, and a multi vitamin, and a b complex....it has helped me get through the important part of my day!! Hope you feel better, you will make it through this as will I!! Just keep up the fight!!


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 10:59 am 
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95,

Welcome to the wonderful world of "high dose jumping" Suboxone wd, it's a gift that just keeps on giving!!

Having your symptoms improve, then WHAMO, having some of them come right back is par for the course. I'm gonna say that in another week or two, you won't have the roller coaster effect hitting you so hard.

Stay strong, man. Suboxone (opiate) wd will break you if you let it.

You guys have to remember that you're all warriors and you're all doing fantastic!!

Mr. Stoner, I'm glad you're gonna discontinue the benzo's. I got anxiety pretty bad during my wd, but I just pushed through it. It was hard as hell a few times, but like I've said before, we're all stronger than we realize. Also, after I got off Suboxone, I basically had to quit drinking coffee and other drinks with caffeine in them, those drinks would spike my anxiety and it just wasn't worth it. Just something for you to think about.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:15 pm 
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Thanks for the advice, Romeo. Caffeine usage is definitely something for me to consider because I religiously drank diet red bull to counteract the sedative effects of suboxone while I was at work. Usually one in the morning, sometimes one in the afternoon. When I go back to work next week, I will stick to water only.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:51 pm 
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Hey 95, I hope your sleepwalking day at work wasn't TOO horrible! I am rooting for you, buddy. What I have found is that even if you don't sleep a wink one night because of WD, the following night you'll be so exhausted that you'll at least get SOME sleep.

Also, not sure if you're a Monty Python fan, but I thought that this would be appropriate :)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHPOzQzk9Qo[/youtube]


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 4:21 pm 
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OMGosh, we have a Monty Python fan!!!

Monty Python and the Holy Grail is one of my fave's. Remember this part?

GUARD #1: Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?
ARTHUR: Not at all, they could be carried.
GUARD #1: What -- a swallow carrying a coconut?
ARTHUR: It could grip it by the husk!
GUARD #1: It's not a question of where he grips it! It's a simple
question of weight ratios! A five ounce bird could not carry a 1 pound
coconut.
ARTHUR: Well, it doesn't matter. Will you go and tell your master
that Arthur from the Court of Camelot is here.
GUARD #1: Listen, in order to maintain air-speed velocity, a swallow
needs to beat its wings 43 times every second, right?
ARTHUR: Please!
GUARD #1: Am I right?
ARTHUR: I'm not interested!
GUARD #2: It could be carried by an African swallow!
GUARD #1: Oh, yeah, an African swallow maybe, but not a European
swallow, that's my point.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:09 pm 
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Hey everyone. DAY 14- Off Subs!
Yesterday at work went as shitty as I expected, since I had no sleep (I was miserable, aches and pains, stomach cramps, NO ENERGY, etc). Ive decided to go Friday to a Dr to ask for clonidine. Luckily I had a few Trazadone from an old script. I took 1 last night and got 7 hrs of sleep! So, work was hot as hell but I pushed thru with a lil effort. I really hated to take a Rx med but apparently my body doesnt work without sleep and all the symptoms flared back up. There is no way in HELL i want to try that again. Hopefully all will go well at the Dr and I wont have anymore of those days.

MW, Subgirl, I hope yall are hanging in there.

WE WILL WIN!!!


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:55 am 
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Day seven was not so bad...I'm actually getting plenty of sleep, rls has subsided. Still will feel bouts of anxiety, and was a little depressed today but I'm proud to day I'm one week clean!! Just keep pushing through...we will succeed....it can be done!! Keep fighting the fight!!


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:19 pm 
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hey guys, just wanted to say congrats on quitting suboxone and I understand that it can be difficult to go through. So hello fellow quitters:)


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