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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:13 pm 
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I asked my doctor today about my legs kicking at night, never happened before to me, and also, I've been having hypnic jerks, right on the verge of falling asleep, I jerk awake. He assured me that these are NOT side effects of suboxone, and so he upped my dosage from 24mg to 32mg a day because I told him I was still having 'some' cravings.

He said my runny nose and feeling ill and diarrhea are all part of withdrawels and to expect it to go on another month. I've been on Suboxone for only one month so far.


He also told me that since it has taken ALL of my back pain away, I could stay on the medicine for the rest of my life, if I want to. (I'm only 43). He told me about how safe this medicine is, a wonderful medicine.

Just passing on what he told me today.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:47 pm 
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That sounds like an awful high dose.Even at the dose you were on prior to upping it would stop any signs of withdrawal.Im lost on that one.

Dr's arent always aware of all the side effects,like mine wasnt about Nalaxone and joint pain.I believe jerks ARE a side effect since alot of ppl reported it,me as well.You may notice more since your dose is going up.

Not sure about the rest of your life part,sounds fishy.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:20 pm 
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I have been on sub for almost 5 months now and my jerks, or spasms have gotten worse as time goes on. I know I am not in withdrawl and the other people I have talked to about this have been on sub even longer than me. Yes it can be a side effect of withdrawl as well but it also happens to some as a side effect from sub. If he upped you to 32mg I am guessing you were at 24mg before? If so I do not see how you could be in withdrawl, also you said its been a month since you started sub, withdrawl from full agonists (except methadone) only lasts 7-10 days. So with the dose you were at and the time its been I do not think you are experiencing withdrawl symptoms. Of course I am not a Dr but his diagnosis just doesn't sound plausible to me.

I am glad the sub is helping your pain so well. The one (and only) thing I agree with your Dr about is if you continue to have pain relief from sub then there is no reason to come off. Thanks for posting your Dr's thoughts but I humbly disagree.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 12:48 pm 
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I take back the "rest of your life" comment I made.I agree its OK to stay on it however long you need to for pain control...BUT,not at a super duper dose of 32 mgs.I think that may be overkill.I would,over time,find the lowest dose possible that controls all addiction symptoms and pain as well.Good luck.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 12:48 pm 
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I'm sorry, but I have to humbly disagree with your doctor's theory as well. Being in withdrawals after all that time with 24 mg every day PLUS the stacking effect, well, I just don't see how it's possible for you to be in withdrawals. Dr. Junig even says if someone has too high a tolerance when they induce onto sub and still have withdrawals when they start that they'll stabilize within a few DAYS - not months.

And like was also said, too many other people also have those little "jerks" as people call them. (In fact, I think people should start reporting that side effect to the FDA, but I digress.)

But with all that said, it's just my completely non-medical, non-professional opinion, so take it for what it's worth. I hope you get some relief soon.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 1:31 pm 
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Hey Hat, How would I report the side effect? Is there a website or phone number? Thanks!


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 Post subject: Reporting
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 2:21 pm 
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Breezy_Ann,

To report a drug reaction go to naabt.org and poke around, you'll find it. The site is all about Bup.

The site has a lot of great information about Bup. It taught me a lot about it.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 4:03 pm 
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http://www.fda.gov/Safety/MedWatch/HowT ... 053074.htm

I also posted it under, I think, the side effects section with regard to those mouth sores people get on the strips. You should be able to recognize the thread by the Subject title.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 7:21 pm 
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Sounds awfully dangerous to still have those withdrawal feelings while on that high a dose. Can't say I know a lot of people on suboxone but most I know start off rather low, 2-4mg then go up as needed. Since you are supposed to detox before hands even a low dosage should make you feel much better. I was personally willing to leave my detox center the day after they started me on suboxone, felt like a new person without a problem in the world.

Might be able to ask for some medication that helps with those feelings. CloNIDine is a great patch that decreases your heart rate and relaxes your blood vessels so that blood can flow more easily out of your body and get that excess junk out as well. Has plenty of pros and cons though, its a patch with a mind of its own. You wear it for a week and it releases into your body at certain times. Wearing mine right now and feel perfectly fine but about 30 minutes ago it wasn't working and I stabbed my laptop to death :lol:

Great for when you need to sleep though.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:58 pm 
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I have been having the same hypnic jerks on/off for a few years now and sometimes they get really bad. They definitely come from Suboxone IMO and are a side effect because as soon as I stop taking the other half of my dose at night they seem to either go away or be not as bad. As soon as I take my dinnertime dose they come back in full force and sometimes I hit my wife accidently in my sleep and scare the crap out of her.

It's like I'm not getting enough air or something when my breathing slows down at night. I'm on only suboxone and I didn't even have a bad addiction when I started so I really wasn't withdrawing from anything to cause this. For those having problems with the jerks, try taking your last dose earlier in the day and that hopefully will help you.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:04 pm 
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I've had doctors that have tried to convince me lithium does not cause memory loss, that SSRI's don't have withdrawal. One doctor years ago even told me you don't suffer withdrawal from Subutex back when it was first prescribed in my country. :lol:

Honestly, I'd even go as far as saying that most well read people here know more about Suboxone than their doctors (though they will dispute of course). They say that those who know the most about drugs are those that have been on them themselves.

Until I find a doc that has been through addiction and suboxone treatment - ie Dr Junig .. I just try to remember that there will always be these slight misunderstandings at times from my doctor. Despite this, my doc is one hell of a doc. There are some real quacks out there, got their degree in a corn flakes box style :lol:

I also feel that a good doctor should acknowledge that all drugs potentially cause unique side effects in each patient.

It's a shame that in the cut throat medical world, to admit one has been through addiction / psychiatric treatment can mean some peers stop listening to your claims. The paradox of ego :lol:

Ultimately it comes down to whether or not your doctor is listening to you. If they're a new doc, give it some time to build up a relationship though. If you still feel unheard, don't be afraid to look at other options.


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 Post subject: cravings
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:49 am 
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You are a drug addict. If you weren't you are now. Restless leg syndrome is very popular. It has become more prevelant with the increase in opioid usage. Restlessness is a sign of withdrawals. You should be able to take 8mg a day and NOT CRAVE ANYTHING! It's all in your head! :?

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 Post subject: Disolve Properly
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:54 am 
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Let the tablet or film disolve slowly and completely. Don't drink, smoke, or talk. don't crush, chew, or swallow hole. It has to absorb through the underside of your tongue. Look in a mirror and see the beautiful under-tongue blood vessels. They absorb slowly. Read a book, listen to music, just relax... :D

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:48 am 
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Joe - Actually, if you read any of Dr. Junig's postings/videos about maximum absorption, you'll see that the underside of the tongue is nothing special and bupe will dissolve on any of the inside of the mouth's mucous membranes. Those veins under the tongue are NOT the only place where the film or tablets can dissolve. Dr. Junig's max absorption method entails chewing the tablet in the front teeth and spreading the tablet's "paste" all over the inside of the mouth on it's mucous membranes. It's the quickest and best way to get max absorption. Check out Dr. Junig's blog, The Suboxone TalkZone, and search for "Maximum Absorption" and you should be able to find it.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:00 pm 
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blackberrybunny wrote:
I asked my doctor today about my legs kicking at night, never happened before to me, and also, I've been having hypnic jerks, right on the verge of falling asleep, I jerk awake. He assured me that these are NOT side effects of suboxone, and so he upped my dosage from 24mg to 32mg a day because I told him I was still having 'some' cravings.

He said my runny nose and feeling ill and diarrhea are all part of withdrawels and to expect it to go on another month. I've been on Suboxone for only one month so far.


He also told me that since it has taken ALL of my back pain away, I could stay on the medicine for the rest of my life, if I want to. (I'm only 43). He told me about how safe this medicine is, a wonderful medicine.

Just passing on what he told me today.


I have those symptoms on suboxone. It IS a side effect.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:50 pm 
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I agree with that sounds like a very high dose. I was told that after 16 mg’s you would be just wasting it as the receptors would be filled. I can’t speak for anyone else but myself and I know that 8-16 mg’s far exceeds what I need to take away my cravings. But we are all different and have had different levels of tolerance. Now about the leg twitching and well body twitches. I have been having that problem for years ever since I have had an OPIATE addiction. I think and again it is just what I think, that it has something to do with the opiates and the fact that we over load our body’s with them. I also ate my pills and so the lining of my stomach has been damaged therefor not allowing vitamin B12 to absorb into my body and with extreme low B12 you could get the feeling of twitching. Even the feeling, as I call it free falling when wide awake. That is what I went through. I have to take B12 shots once a month. The twitching at night, well I accepted it and feel it is the opiates that affected my body. Good luck.

[quote="melijm"]That sounds like an awful high dose.Even at the dose you were on prior to upping it would stop any signs of withdrawal.Im lost on that one.

Dr's arent always aware of all the side effects,like mine wasnt about Nalaxone and joint pain.I believe jerks ARE a side effect since alot of ppl reported it,me as well.You may notice more since your dose is going up.

Not sure about the rest of your life part,sounds fishy.[/quote]


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:36 pm 
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I just posted about this on someone else... the Jerking I don't feel they are from the subs. Again that is what I feel. I had the jerking problem way before I ever took subs. It all started after I became an OPIATE addict. I would like to know how many others who like me had the jerking prob even before the subs, but after becomeing a opie head... I just like to think things through before running to the FDA. I for one don't want anything to happen to this drug. It has been a life saver for me. The last thing I need is for them to start pulling.

[quote="hatmaker510"]I'm sorry, but I have to humbly disagree with your doctor's theory as well. Being in withdrawals after all that time with 24 mg every day PLUS the stacking effect, well, I just don't see how it's possible for you to be in withdrawals. Dr. Junig even says if someone has too high a tolerance when they induce onto sub and still have withdrawals when they start that they'll stabilize within a few DAYS - not months.

And like was also said, too many other people also have those little "jerks" as people call them. (In fact, I think people should start reporting that side effect to the FDA, but I digress.)

But with all that said, it's just my completely non-medical, non-professional opinion, so take it for what it's worth. I hope you get some relief soon.[/quote].


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