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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 3:25 pm 
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So my husband went and bought me one of those vaporizer things last night for quitting smoking. We had discussed this, and I really wanted to try it to see if all the hype I've been hearing is true. Those that I have talked to say that they immediately went from smoking 1-2 packs a day, to nothing within a week. AND feel it was easy.

I quit smoking after a 9 year habit when I was pregnant with my first child, but it was HELL. And I swore I would never start again. Well, 13 years later and about a year into a suboxone taper I decided it was a good idea to start again. :D

Here's my reason for starting this thread. I tried this thing last night when he got home, and have used it all day today. I haven't had any actual cigarettes all day. I feel pretty content as far as the nicotine cravings, but the craving of the feel and taste of the cigarette is still up front and center. It reminds me a great deal of the way I felt when I started suboxone. It's an odd comparison, but I have been sitting here wondering why people like my sweet husband feel like this is an ok trade off but long term suboxone treatment isn't?

What's the difference? You could still argue that you are simply trading one thing for another, safer substance. But, people accept this type of substitution without batting an eye.

Even though I am getting the nicoteine that I need, I am still having to convince my mind that I don't need the actual cigarette. The substance is still being introduced to my body, but I am still going to have to do the work to combat the habit of lighting up the cigarette. Work on keeping a mindset of recovery, and determination to quit. It's VERY reminiscent of suboxone treatment to me. Anyone else have this same thought?

I just thought it would be a good topic for conversation. What are your thoughts?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:48 pm 
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I got one of those things a few months ago. I could never get mine lit. I burned through an entire damn lighter trying to light mine. Piece of junk!!

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:07 pm 
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Romeo, you kill me, lol hahaha! :-D
I did try the vape cigs for a while and while I thought they were similar to real cigs in taste, throat/ chest hit, and smoke(vapor ) output, they still didn't really scratch that itch for a real smoke. I still keep the whole kit for running out of cigarettes emergencies, but, for me it doesn't replace nicotine in the same way subs replace the opiates I abused. the vapor cigs are like a temporary fix till I get a real cigarette, while Suboxone is my medication that I need to live a normal life.
perhaps to some people the substitution is the same, I mean it does seem like the same thing as substituting subs for opiates, but having experienced both, I'd have to say it's not the same to me.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:36 pm 
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No, I totally agree. It's not nearly as effective as suboxone is for taking away the cravings and making you feel normal. That wasn't the point. What I was trying to get across, somewhat uneffectively, is why this type of replacement is accepted and buprenorphine treatment isn't.

Also, it brings to mind the fact that for some people, especially those coming from needle habits or other ROA's, suboxone doesn't produce the immediate relief that they crave. There are sometimes lingering issues that have to be worked through and habits that have to be broken. You have to work at it. You have to focus on the fact that you are getting yourself well, and that it is more important to stick with it even if you are struggling. There is an adjustment period.

Anyway, I thought it might spark some discussion about some of these issues.

Back to myself for a second, in case anyone is interested. I have only had one real cigarette today! That's pretty big for me, as I have been averaging 1 to 1 1/2 packs a day for awhile now. I wouldn't even say it was that difficult. There were times that I really wanted a real one...but I worked through it. I'm excited to give it a try...not promising anything, but even if it just cuts down on the cost of my habit I will call it a success!

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:25 am 
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oh okay,I see what you are asking for now.
unfortunately, even though smoking can render some really serious, life threatening, and even fatal consequences to smokers, and even to non smokers, for some reason it's still more acceptable to society to be a smoker, than a " drug addict"
active addiction is also often fatal and it's symptoms miserable for victims, but we aren't pitied the way victims of smoking related illnesses are. there aren't any or many. (if any at all,)organizations raising money to help us afford our incredibly expensive medication and treatment and when we pass away from our illness, we're often blamed for or own demise. usually not the case with a smoker, sometimes the cigarette or tobacco companies are blamed before the poor smoker. there are aggressive anti- smoking campaigns, and products to help with that advertised aggressively, but the mere mention of Suboxone or methadone for
opiate addiction is " just replacing one addiction for another". reallymakes no sense if you really think about it, why our scientifically most effective,evidence based treatment wouldn't be viewed as just as acceptable socially. I can only assume, it comes down to which group of people is more socially acceptable, and it's been my experience as an addict, and a smoker that addicts are not viewed with much genuine concern for our conditions, should we continue to do drugs, or use replacement therapies. for example, go to a doctor to ask for help quitting smoking cigarettes, and they're happy to write rx's for drugs like Chantix, or recommend nicotine patches and gums. television is full of ads for these replacement therapies for smokers, and I've even seen ads for replacement products for dip, a tobacco placed between gum and cheek! vap e cigs are inexpensively for sale in any convenience store now, and there are tv commercials, depicting them as a glamorous and smart alternative to smoking real cigarettes. but then go to your doctor asking for help quitting the opioids you've become addicted to, and you're either treated rudely and leave with no help whatsoever, or referred to a twelve step program, with rarely a mention of a replacement therapy or medication to make your detox tolerable, your question... why? well....
I hate that I believe it comes down to which group of people society views as more acceptable or valuable, but I believe that's why different forms of nicotine replacement are more widely accepted, and viewed as legitimate treatment than Suboxone. the damn stigma of addiction,imo, is what it boils down to, q.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:57 am 
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Yes Lizzie! That's exactly what I mean! You are totally right, it is a stigma that I wish would be looked at and challenged by society. How many people can honestly say that they don't have someone in their lives who has been touched by addiction? I know that nobody here can change this, but WHY does the world not take this disease seriously???? I just don't get it, and I get so angry about the double standards.

Thanks for the well thought out post, you made some great points that I hadn't thought of myself. :D

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:34 am 
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Q,

I'll never understand the stigma myself either! you can get lots of people to" say" addiction is a disease,but then, when actually faced with it they dont treat addicts w ith the same pity, or sympathy as say someone who's lost a limb to diabetes, or needs a lung transplant from years of smoking. one can be an iv drug user and lose a limb to a raging infection, but does that person get the same sympathetic response from people once they reveal how that body part was lost?....a resounding NO! addiction ravages the mind body and soul, the same way other diseases can and do, and follows a disease progression, like other diseases, it has effective medical treatments that save lives, but still some refuse to even believe it's a disease! it's appalling to me. there are doctors who call it a disease, but treat it like some terrible character flaw or moral failing, and " prescribe" self help groups or religion, both of which are woefully ineffective for opiate addicts. I'm not sure what we can do about it though. because of the stigma,I delayed getting treated for years, which could've killed me! would someone who thought they had cancer do that for fear of a doctor's judgment, or even fear of legal consequences? I think not! yet addicts delay or never got treated for those very reasons all the time. how can this be considered acceptable?

Besides trying to educate other addicts about their options, and teaching our children, who are the future decision makers, the real truth about what addiction is, I'm not sure what more we can do. I hope other members will chime in on this discussionwith some ideas and insight. this stigma is unfair and costs lives!


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:59 am 
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We could start by stopping all this "clean/dirty" non med labeling. This just makes it all so black and white for most people including doctors ! I see it all the time. And so i sit in an na meeting as addicts suck on there smoking replacment contrapments and say im useing a mind mood allteringdrug??? Come on man...hey lets just show them who we are today an how we live!!!! CLEAN ENOUGH!!
oh and i smoke. Wish i didnt. Workin on it..

razor...


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:32 pm 
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This will be interesting on how it turns out for you. I quit smoking in '90 with the aid of Nicorette gum. It was a prescription at that time. Used the gum for two weeks and let it go. 12 years later I start the gum again. My mom had some and I thought it would be fun to get that nicotine/caffeine rush again. Damn that gum is addicting! My doctor kept telling me to stop because I had high blood pressure but I ignored his comments.

In 2010 I did the math on how much nicotine I was putting in my blood stream. By then I was chewing one after the other. The 4 mg ones, about 12-16 pieces a day. So by my calculations, I was getting the equivalent of smoking 2-3 packs of cigs per day. So I quit once more with the aid of Wellbutrin. It was hard, and took a long time to get over the cravings.

The reason I'm talking about the gum is because you will face the same issue with the vape. Once I stopped, my BP went to normal. No more BP meds for me. It was strictly the nicotine that caused my high blood pressure. That is why I'm interested in how this turns out.

Is it the smart way to go? Yes, I do believe so. You are still getting the main drug you're addicted to, minus all the bad chemicals that cause lung disease, etc. I sure hope you can stick with it and then taper the vape until you're off all of it.

To all the rest of you. Please do whatever it takes to stop smoking. I smoked from age 11 through 37 and quit numerous times, always to go back to it. Don't be discouraged because you fail and fail again. Everyone of us who quit successfully went through the same failures as you have. You just keep quitting until it sticks. BTW, I am also an oral cancer survivor if that means anything. I hear young people say all the time "Well, we all die someday". True, but when faced with a horrible painful death, that statement seems so incredibly naive.

You go ghorsegal! The end of your smoking days are near!

rule

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 7:41 pm 
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As a smoker, I don't remember breaking any laws while getting or smoking my cigarettes. I don't remember doing anything exceedingly seedy while getting or smoking cigarettes, either. As a drug user, I broke the law daily. I also did some very crappy things in obtaining my drugs or while using.

For me, the stigma that came with drug use was deserved.

Why one type of replacement therapy is accepted by society and the other is not may have something do with what I was just talking about. I suspect this is a topic with many, many facets, but I'm also guessing that a lot of it boils down to the hurt we addicts inflicted on others during our using days. People aren't apt to forgive the hurt we've inflicted very quickly and because of that, they have little sympathy for us.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 11:22 am 
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Vapes never did it for me either. Also the vapor felt way harsher hitting the back of my throat than real cigarette smoke ever did, so it'd make me cough and my throat would feel scratchy.

I just wanna say that I don't think there's any shame in smoking while you're in recovery from opiate addiction. I know it's awful but I think there's a lotta abstinence based rehabs who get this right, not to give people shit or give them quitting lectures while they're in the rough of coping with not being high so they can get their lives back and just worry about the addiction that hurt their lifestyle and responsibilities and loved ones for the time being.

I understand your analogy, missing the real thing and the habit of physically smoking was too much for me with the vape but for me quitting opiates with sub made me way more content than trying to quit cigarettes with the vaporizing cigarette. Probably because sub is so effective at reducing cravings, and because the pay off was so big at the time and you could see that reward right away, of not being miserable and having your freedom and independence and life back.

I agree with others that it's probably the stigma. Public opinion nowadays has turned not just anti smoking but very anti smoker, but even that is more socially acceptable than big bad addictions to drugs that get you high. That and I think people who hate smoke and avoid smokers like the plague are just happy they don't have to smell it anymore. Congrats on quitting, be patient and I'm sure you'll start to see some stuff that gets better with it. If the vape isn't working out for you because of the delivery method (one that's so close to the action of smoking you crave but not the same) but still need some sort of delivery action to satisfy you, I'd consider the gum. It's the only thing that kept me sane when I was in a behavioral health hospital (my then-psychiatrist who's a doctor there convinced me this would be better than rehab for me in my particular situation and he was right), and somehow I didn't freak out as I wasn't ready to quit. It gave me a sense of that ritual but without reminding me too much of the old one. Either way a lot of people have quit with both of these and I'm sure everyone here has faith in you. Good luck!


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 5:42 pm 
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Except for a brief period of time when I smoked one or two clove cigarettes a day, I've never been addicted to smoking. I don't have any great ideas about why there is a difference in the stigma since they are both harm reduction tools.

What I do want to say, though, is that they've found some of the vapor cigarettes from China make you inhale a large amount of aluminum, which can't be great. I've hear there is a company from CA making vapor cigarettes that adheres to fairly high standards. My advice just about vapor cigarettes is to avoid ones made in China.

Amy

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 9:38 pm 
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Just a little more about nicotine addiction. When I was about 3 years clean and sober off alcohol I took this CDS course. (Chemical Dependency Specialist) The professor that did most of the classes was so against smoking that he told us that when an addict or alcoholic goes into an in house rehab, they should detox off all the drugs they are on, including nicotine and caffeine. This guy was certifiably a whacko for telling us that. Yea, tell an opiate addict that they have to quit smoking at the same time or you won't treat them! And fyi, I found out that it is true that college professors are extreme liberals. Really extreme! I'm a moderate when it comes to politics.

The other thing that came to mind was an old speaker in AA called Bob Earl. Very famous in the 80's and 90's. He would preach from the pulpit about the addiction of cigarettes and coffee, saying you aren't clean if you're still doing those drugs. He had a saying and it went something like this: "Every time you smoke a cigarette, a tiny gun goes off shooting you. It is called covert suicide" How do you like that one? Sorry for breaking his anonymity, but I think he passed away some time back. He was also very public about his sobriety.

Sorry for going way off course with those two stories. I agree, it is an unfair stigma. Addiction is addiction. Smoking is one of the hardest drugs to quit. I am so grateful that smoking is in my past and I don't miss it one bit.

I now give you back your thread~~~~

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:41 pm 
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Oh no Rule, feel free to add anything you would like anytime! I always enjoy reading your comments! :D

I totally get what Romeo was saying above. You're right, the stigma attatched to drug addicts of any type is justified in most cases. I'm not saying that an opiate addict is the same or even in the same ballpark as someone who smokes cigarettes. Only the way that replacement drugs like suboxone are viewed compared to nicoteine replacement treatment, in whatever form you choose to use it. However, I do believe that as addicts in recovery we should not be viewed the same as an addict who is still actively using their DOC. I know that you weren't talking about that particular aspect, but I wanted to clarify my point. :wink:

As for people being forced to quit smoking while they are trying to detox from whatever drug they are in rehab for, that's just plain stupid! I can't even imagine dealing with both at once! Doing one at a time is hard enough!

Amy, you make a good point with the vapor liquid. I figured out yesterday that all liquid's are not created equally. I started out on the 12mg liquid and spent the first two days with this thing permanently inserted in my mouth. I finally went and got the higher mg level yesterday, and now I feel like I'm getting enough to keep me satisfied for about an hour at a time without having to keep at the vaporizer constantly.
Someone else above mentioned the burning feeling from the vaporizer. I was having the same feeling, although I was prepared to put up with it to make it work. But, when I tried the new liquid, which was a different brand, that feeling was gone. I'm not sure what the chemical difference is between the two, but this one is much better. The flavors are better too. My husband had picked out a bunch of stupid fruity flavors for me like grape, peach, tropical breeze and smarties (the candy). But when I got to pick my own I went with vanilla cupcakes and cafe latte. Yummy!!!!! The bottles are less than $5 a piece, and there is enough in each bottle to last almost a week. WAY CHEAPER than cigarettes were costing! I'll keep an eye out for the ones made in China and stay away from them, thanks for the tip!

Really quickly, I wanted to mention that one of the best things I've found with this is that I don't have to worry about not being able to smoke in those situations where it would normally be impossible, or at the very least looked down on. I even took it to church this morning and ducked into the bathroom between Sunday School and Church service! Nobody would have known what I was doing if I hadn't told them, it just smells like an air freshener or faint perfume.

I'm doing pretty good, I think, with it. I started it on Thursday and so far have only had 4 cigarettes total since Wednesday night. It's also nice to have my little 7yo sweetie snuggling in my lap again! :D

Okay, I've got to go, thanks for cheering me on Ya'll!

Q

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:00 am 
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UPDATE

Yesterday was the first day I was able to go without ANY real cigarettes!

A little victory. :D

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:29 am 
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qhorsegal2 wrote:
UPDATE

Yesterday was the first day I was able to go without ANY real cigarettes!

A little victory. :D


That's an AWESOME victory Q!!! Woooo Hoooo!!! :D

Keep up the great work!!!!

Karen


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 7:41 pm 
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Congrats! I have been cigarette free thanks to my ecig for almost three months now. I'm so used to it now that I prefer my ecig way more than regular cigs. It was kind of hard at first and you're right for about the first week I smoked on it so much my husband called it my pacifier lol!

My doctor said that for an other wise healthy person nicotine isn't all that bad for you, and when people come in her office and she asks them if they smoke if they tell her they only smoke an ecig then she will put them down as a non smoker.

Keep up the good work! Dont be too hard on yourself if you have to stay on the ecig for a long while. It's better than quitting then going back to cigarettes soon after.

Erica

P.S. my favorite flavors are cheese cake crust, vanilla ice cream, and caramel popcorn. Im not a very big fan of the fruity flavors either.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 7:55 pm 
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way to go Q! I'm thinking I'll tackle quitting cigarettes next, but........ it'll be a while! congrats!


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:11 am 
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Good for you, Q! Proud of you!

Amy

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 3:32 pm 
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Thanks you guys!!!

@Erica...out of curiosity, what brand of e-liquid do you use? Is it heavier on the PG or VG?

Working on day #3 with no smokes! :D

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