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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:50 pm 
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Does anyone have any experience with taking Remeron while in Suboxone withdrawl and how it effected your withdrawl symptoms? I'm on 3 days straight no sleep so I am getting desperate without getting illegal, and remembered I had a bottle of Remeron that I never took. I really hope someone has experience or knows how they work together

Thank you


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:02 pm 
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Hey breezhy, go to the top of the forum, look for the "search" tab and search Remeron. I just did it and got 3 hits, besides your post. I think the first post the poster talked about how remeron helped them to sleep.

Can you go to the doctor and get some Clonidine? Clonidine is a blood pressure medication, it's prescribed off label for opiate wd. It calms the sympathetic nervous system and has a sedative effect. Clonidine is non-addictive, so no worries there. Most everyone on this site who has used Clonidine during wd swears by it. It won't eliminate wd, but it sure knocks the symptoms down a good peg or two.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:24 pm 
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breezhy wrote:
Does anyone have any experience with taking Remeron while in Suboxone withdrawl and how it effected your withdrawl symptoms? I'm on 3 days straight no sleep so I am getting desperate without getting illegal, and remembered I had a bottle of Remeron that I never took. I really hope someone has experience or knows how they work together

Thank you


I think it might be helpful short term, for sleep. Also, if you suffer from lack of appetite (fairly common with detox), it might very well help correct that WD symptom as well (just go for something healthier than sugar out of the bag, lol). This is one of my favorite sites for info on head meds, or, "crazy meds" as they call them at the site (that I linked to in quote block) ...self-deprecating humor on the part of the site's founders, I suppose, who have psychiatric diagnoses.


Quote:
    4.  Remeron Pros and Cons

    4.1  Pros

  • If serotonin and/or norepinephrine are the answer for you, it will pull you out of the deepest, blackest depression like no other medication will.
  • It may not be as good as Seroquel or Zyprexa for knocking you out, but it’s better than trazodone for the combination of depression and insomnia.

    4.2  Cons

  • You may literally eat sugar straight out of the bag to satisfy your cravings for sweet carbohydrates. By “literally” I mean I have received e-mails from, and read reports by, people who have done exactly that.
  • You may sleep too well.


Source link for more info: http://www.crazymeds.us/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Meds/Remeron




Check for potentially bad interactions though with anything else you might or might not be using, for detox or other health issues. Here is one such site that can be used to check for med interactions, including pharma meds and herbal alternatives: http://www.webmd.com/interaction-checker/default.htm


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 11:57 pm 
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What Romeo said! My doc prescribed me a Clonadine patch (in addition to a couple other meds - Lyrica and Valium) for my jump from 6 mg and it kept me from losing my mind over the wd's! In fact the wd's were only about 20% of what I feared.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:39 pm 
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I just ordered some Remeron from an IOP (see my link in post above, for more info about Remeron), in case I have sleep issues. It's described as being a safe antidepressant for people with bipolar (unlikely to trigger mania) and to help a lot for anxiety. I actually asked my PN about it a long time ago, and she wasn't interesting in prescribing it, so getting on own rather than trying again. I suspect she didn't prescribe, because even though it is very effective at first for depression, it conversely has a high "poop out" rate. In other words, it is not effective as a long term medication, even though very effectively initially. But it is stronger than trazodone for helping with sleep right out the gate, on first night or two of taking it, and reportedly relatively easy on the side effect profile, so it might help, like a transition sleep med, as I can't take the Neurontin/Gabapentin forever. Neurontin is helpful tho, even now along with sub, for pain reduction, but tolerance to it goes up fast and it seems for some, there is a withdrawal syndrome that sorta resembles withdrawals from substances that can be addictive (in the "get high" sense of being addictive), even though not as serious. But some people have reported anxiety and panic attacks when they discontinue Neurontin suddenly. Anyway, I only got thirty (30) of the 15 mg Remeron tabs. (smallest amount I could order). I can start with that for a short while, if I have any bad insomnia along the way after sub discontinuation (and not have to jack my Neurotin up to double what I'm currently taking, which could be asking for WDs trouble with the increased tolerance), then taper down to 7.5 mg and stop.

I worry/obsess a lot about sleep (how much I sleep, when I sleep, etc), more than somebody with a single diagnosis of addiction, because as a dual-diagnosis, bipolar person, one of the worst things for me, is not getting enough sleep, it can trigger manic episodes, and its like a vicious cycle, a manic episode (or really bad depressive episode) can make it more likely for me to relapse. And a relapse can make bipolar issues worse, hence the vicious cycle. So I have to have a very healthy lifestyle ultimately, to keep both (addiction and bipolar symptoms) at bay. So while it might be true for most that "lack of sleep" never killed anybody (I often hear that mentioned, to help those while they are in acute stages of withdrawal, and more often than not it is true, particularly if its only temporary), I am always looking at more extreme measures for any possible opiate withdrawal insomnia.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 7:33 pm 
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I just wanted to let you know my experience of taking Remeron, as I have now but only one night. I took the 15mg pill on Night 6 of WD. The only thing I was worried about in the Remeron is the fact that it has an anti-histamine component to it, which can worsen RLS by a lot, such as Benadryl for some people. Anyways, I had not slept in 3 days, so I was at a "fuck it" state of mind. So I took the Remeron around 9pm, took a hot shower and then tried to lay down. By the way, Rest Leg Syndrome had been destroying me all night the past 3 nights, to the point I was so close to admitting myself to the ER for some Clonodine, but new I would get financially screwed from it. Anyhow, about 15 mins after I take it while I'm showering I start to feel a little wavy/drowsy subtely good though. But after I got out of the shower and tried to relax by laying down, I start getting terrible restless leg to the point where I could not sit still for more then a few seconds. It was really driving me crazy. I even went to the Walgreens around the corner from me and brought compression stockings, I was so desperate. Then around midnight, I get picked up by my dad and get a hot tea, and come back to my apartment, and we go on a half hour long walk, Walking distracts you from RLS, so I'm constantly moving around and showering. Then I get back to my apt. its 1am, I go to lay down, and I still have no RLS at that time. Next thing I know, it's 4:30am. It was a miracle, I had finally got some sleep. I then fell asleep again, from 5am to 6:30am which was a ton of sleep considering the past few days. So it was a huge weight lifted off my shoulder. Although, the next day I felt so wiped out, and lack of energy, like my body was SO heavy, so I decided not to continue to take the medication, and go the natural route, but that 1 night of sleep was GREAT. I really needed that for my sanity. So it could have been my RLS was so bad bc it was the peak of WD or the medication made it worse, I am not sure, bc that night I didnt have any at all, which blew my mind. Anyways, I hope this helps, and that you get what you are looking for.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 8:18 pm 
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breezhy wrote:
I just wanted to let you know my experience of taking Remeron, as I have now but only one night. I took the 15mg pill on Night 6 of WD. The only thing I was worried about in the Remeron is the fact that it has an anti-histamine component to it, which can worsen RLS by a lot, such as Benadryl for some people. Anyways, I had not slept in 3 days, so I was at a "fuck it" state of mind. So I took the Remeron around 9pm, took a hot shower and then tried to lay down. By the way, Rest Leg Syndrome had been destroying me all night the past 3 nights, to the point I was so close to admitting myself to the ER for some Clonodine, but new I would get financially screwed from it. Anyhow, about 15 mins after I take it while I'm showering I start to feel a little wavy/drowsy subtely good though. But after I got out of the shower and tried to relax by laying down, I start getting terrible restless leg to the point where I could not sit still for more then a few seconds. It was really driving me crazy. I even went to the Walgreens around the corner from me and brought compression stockings, I was so desperate. Then around midnight, I get picked up by my dad and get a hot tea, and come back to my apartment, and we go on a half hour long walk, Walking distracts you from RLS, so I'm constantly moving around and showering. Then I get back to my apt. its 1am, I go to lay down, and I still have no RLS at that time. Next thing I know, it's 4:30am. It was a miracle, I had finally got some sleep. I then fell asleep again, from 5am to 6:30am which was a ton of sleep considering the past few days. So it was a huge weight lifted off my shoulder. Although, the next day I felt so wiped out, and lack of energy, like my body was SO heavy, so I decided not to continue to take the medication, and go the natural route, but that 1 night of sleep was GREAT. I really needed that for my sanity. So it could have been my RLS was so bad bc it was the peak of WD or the medication made it worse, I am not sure, bc that night I didnt have any at all, which blew my mind. Anyways, I hope this helps, and that you get what you are looking for.



I don't think every antihistamine causes restless leg, I took phenergan last time I was WDing from subs, which is a prescription strength antihistamine, and had no probs. I think it is only certain antihistamines. There are two versions of Unisom, one has the "benadryl" antihistamine (diphenhydramine), and that aggravates restless leg syndrome, whereas Doxylamine, the other version, seems to help, according to reports on this forum.

I am lucky in that I have never had a problem with restless legs, even during some unplanned heroin cold turkey WDs. Also, I have never puked from WDs, even though I've had bad nausea. I get every other symptom tho. Leaks from nose, eyes, lungs. The poo stew. Aches and pains in joints like an arthritic, weakness and lethargy, anxiety, and so on.. all the fun stuff, but oddly, no RLS. Sometimes a little twitchy in hands tho, like an alcoholic with DTs, but not steady, and kind of unpredictable.

Oh well, I already ordered it, so I'll just have to see how it goes. It'll probably arrive after I've stopped subs, maybe even after acute stages (if I experience any), which hopefully won't be prolonged for me (since I've only been on it a week this go around, and has been over three months since I last used, and I hope to discontinue by next weekend). But if I have any lingering insomnia, I'll give it a go and report back.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 8:42 pm 
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no_boop_shoo_be_doop wrote:
breezhy wrote:

I am lucky in that I have never had a problem with restless legs, even during some unplanned heroin cold turkey WDs. Also, I have never puked from WDs, even though I've had bad nausea. I get every other symptom tho. Leaks from nose, eyes, lungs. The poo stew. Aches and pains in joints like an arthritic, weakness and lethargy, anxiety, and so on.. all the fun stuff, but oddly, no RLS. Sometimes a little twitchy in hands tho, like an alcoholic with DTs, but not steady, and kind of unpredictable.




That is lucky because I def consider RLS the worst withdrawal symptom. I know you have other issues that make detoxing hard for you, but be thankful you don't have to deal with this too because it is an absolute nightmare.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 8:55 pm 
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Restless leg syndrome is reported as a rare side effect w/Remeron, incidence <0.1%

see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirtazapine#Side-effects


Of course, during an event like withdrawing from opiates, that causes RLS in more people than not (I'm a lucky one, in at least that aspect) the incidence rate of Remeron aggravating RLS could increase. So it's hard to say it was a side effect of the Remeron, or you being in a peak acute stage of WD, or a combo of both. Glad you finally managed to get some sleep though! It is miserable for anybody (there is some supposed rule of thumb, that after no sleep for three days, one is clinically insane), and for me, can be really scary at times if insomnia is prolonged.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 8:57 pm 
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TikiStyles wrote:
no_boop_shoo_be_doop wrote:
breezhy wrote:

I am lucky in that I have never had a problem with restless legs, even during some unplanned heroin cold turkey WDs. Also, I have never puked from WDs, even though I've had bad nausea. I get every other symptom tho. Leaks from nose, eyes, lungs. The poo stew. Aches and pains in joints like an arthritic, weakness and lethargy, anxiety, and so on.. all the fun stuff, but oddly, no RLS. Sometimes a little twitchy in hands tho, like an alcoholic with DTs, but not steady, and kind of unpredictable.




That is lucky because I def consider RLS the worst withdrawal symptom. I know you have other issues that make detoxing hard for you, but be thankful you don't have to deal with this too because it is an absolute nightmare.


It sure seems like it can be hellish, from everything I've heard about it.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 5:06 am 
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TikiStyles wrote:


That is lucky because I def consider RLS the worst withdrawal symptom. I know you have other issues that make detoxing hard for you, but be thankful you don't have to deal with this too because it is an absolute nightmare.


I also HATE RLS, and was totally expecting it during my wdls, as I had experienced it pretty bad while 'kicking' oxy, methadone, codeine, (need I go on- ha ha ha, but not so funny, right?)

Strangely to me though, I never got restless 'legs' during my wdls from Suboxone. I had an "all over' creepy crawly skin feeling, but it was the worst in my upper back, then radiated down through my shoulders and arms. My legs were not that bad at all. Still, this was my most uncomfortable symptom in addition to sleep deprivation, but they are linked, right?

Anyone else have this happen? Probably because I am just all around strange anyway- ha ha ha. I also did not sweat or have runny eyes or nose, just sneezing fits. Boy it is nice to say "had" and not "have"!

Hang in there and be strong all you taperers and jumpers! Wdls do NOT last forever!!
BF

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