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 Post subject: RELAPSED
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:39 am 
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so i slipped up pretty big. i got down so low on subs i could actually get high the next day if i didnt take any.
why we all ask? well marriage problems. i am SO down sometimes in this marriage, i just crumble. its sad. i feel bad about the slip up, but at the same time, its like i also DONT feel so bad. Like, i came so far from where i was, it was just a slip. now im not minimizing, by any means, and i also am not saying i wont ever do it again!
What is wrong with me? Why dont i give a shit right now? my therapist and counselor at the clinic told me i was doing so well that the marriage seems to be the problem. well guess what-i love him AND i have nowhere to go. i also dont see myself being completely clean OUT of the marriage, so i still think i am the problem. :roll: :roll:
Anyway. just wanted to spill the beans here and hear what all you people have to say ! lol!

Bring it on!


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:28 pm 
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Jenzo, I'm gonna apologize now if I get shitty with you, I'm not doing it to make you mad, I'm doing it in an attempt to help you.

OK, Jenzo, you didn't slip up because of marriage problems, you slipped up because YOU ARE A DRUG ADDICT!! Your addiction has been sitting there, waiting patiently for its opportunity to screw you with your pants on. You have to understand that you didn't slip up because of marriage problems, your addict brain and your addict thinking want you to think you slipped up because of mariage problems. That's how your addict brain gets you to use. It was marriage problems this time, next time it'll be because of a hard day at work, the time after that it'll be because.......insert excuse here.

I knew weeks ago that you were headed for a relapse when I posted in your thread to be careful about getting off of Suboxone when you're not ready. Your reply back to me was almost cocky and that's when I knew you were in trouble. Cockiness has preceeded all 3 of my relapses!!! I wanted so desperately to help you, but I knew you wouldn't listen to me....I also wanted to reach through the computer and smack you because I knew where you were going, but I also know that you sound just enough like me that a smack wouldn't have done you any good. I'm a stubborn SOB and I tend to learn my lessons the hard way, not to insult you, but you strike me as being similar to me in that department?

I TOTALLY hear ya on the feeling bad, but not so bad about the slip up. My first slip I felt exactly the same way. I was all like, "It was just a little slip, calm down folks, nothing to see here", then my next slip came about 2 weeks later. The second slip was a lot worse than the first, I ended up going through wd again, not terrible wd, but wd nonetheless.

I see where you're already saying that you may slip again. You've already opened the door on your next relapse Jenzo, that barn door is wide open and you're fixin' to go through another relapse......I'm gonna say it's not gonna be too far down the road either? You're playing with fire dude.

You asked what is wrong with you, YOU'RE SICK JENZO, all us addicts are sick. Our brains don't respect drugs, we keep fooling ourselves into thinking we can use responsibly......I know I sure as fuck can't use responsibly......how about you??

Listen, I documented all three of my relapses here on this forum, they're all under this one thread: http://suboxforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=3867

I wonder if you give it a read, if you'll see any similarities in your thinking and mine.

Once again, I truly apologize for jumping knee deep in your shit, but that's what it took for me to get my head out of my ass. I honestly hope you can see that I'm only doing what I know to help you. If I didn't care about you at all, I wouldn't have spent the past 20 minutes typing this up for you.

Take care of yourself jenzo.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:38 pm 
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Hey Jenzo, I'm sure this isn't what you want to hear, but you need to seriously consider going back to a maintenance dose of Sub (like 4mg). I know you have worked hard on your taper but I can say from experience, and from others' experience that sometimes when we get really low on our Sub dose, our addiction rears it's ugly head. And that's a warning to get yourself to a safe place. I understand about the marriage situation, I truly do. But maybe going through marital problems and going off Sub at the same time is a recipe for disaster. This isn't to say you can't go off Sub, I am just asking you to consider delaying it for a bit. Keep posting. Keep talking about .
Lilly


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:43 pm 
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Jenzo, pull yourself up by your bootstraps and get back on board. Don't let this become a full blown relapse.

I don't think people should typically change big things during Sub taper. However, I don't know what is happening in your marriage either. Do you think you should stop tapering right now and handle what is in front of you? There's no point in tapering off Sub if you will then relapse because there's too much unhappy crap around you.

That said, I don't know your situation. Honesty is one of the hardest things for us addictive-types to learn, and I really admire you for your honesty. Whatever you decided, just think it through. You won't get beat up on here from me, so put your boxing gloves down. I'm not going to do the "Girl, you gotta do this and you gotta do that!" That puts people on the defensive. It's okay. You are okay. Slow down. Figure out what you need to do so you don't hurt yourself again. Today is a new day. It's a NEW DAY.

laddertipper

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First you take a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes you. ~F. Scott Fitzgerald


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 Post subject: Don't Sweat It
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:52 pm 
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Hi Jenzo,

Now how are we supposed to jump together if we both keep slipping backwards? Did you actually take some pain meds or just increase your Sub dose? I'm assuming it was the pain pills. Did you really feel them with Sub still in your system?

I'm going to agree with Lilly here and say it may be better for you to go back to the maintenance dose of 4mgs. With me, that is a large amount and keeps all cravings away. You did read that I had taken more Sub to act as a pain reliever due to a sinus infection? So yes, I too backslid to 4mgs. The last two days I was able to get back down to 1.50. Don't even try to join me on the taper journey. You need to work on your marriage and addiction issues. Get your priorities in order or importance. Wouldn't be easier to work on the marriage and not worry about tapering? You can taper and jump later when things are better in your personal life.

It is really good you are seeing a therapist. That is more than most of us do including myself.

Keep the faith.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:11 pm 
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I forgot to tell you that I'm happy you posted about your relapse. That took a lot of courage and my hat is off to you for laying it out there.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:15 pm 
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lol i looooove hearing all you guys talk about this. thanks for the responses and PM romeo-i appreciate it.
i did say i know it is ME-not the MARRIAGE -so re-read that part ROMEO if you need to. lol!
Life contributes many things to an addicts cravings. It is not JUST chemical, life is difficult and calls for some kind of strength. I have to say i just wanted to get high. I just felt like it. nothing really pushed me, except a few arguments with my s.o.. so, saying that, i called my people and we are all meeting together to talk about it.
I am sticking at my dose, and not going back up on the subs. i just don't think adding more opiates or medicine is what i want or need.

thanks you all-good luck to every single one of you! GodSpeed.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:18 pm 
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Romeo wrote:
Jenzo, I'm gonna apologize now if I get shitty with you, I'm not doing it to make you mad, I'm doing it in an attempt to help you.

OK, Jenzo, you didn't slip up because of marriage problems, you slipped up because YOU ARE A DRUG ADDICT!! Your addiction has been sitting there, waiting patiently for its opportunity to screw you with your pants on. You have to understand that you didn't slip up because of marriage problems, your addict brain and your addict thinking want you to think you slipped up because of mariage problems. That's how your addict brain gets you to use. It was marriage problems this time, next time it'll be because of a hard day at work, the time after that it'll be because.......insert excuse here.

I knew weeks ago that you were headed for a relapse when I posted in your thread to be careful about getting off of Suboxone when you're not ready. Your reply back to me was almost cocky and that's when I knew you were in trouble. Cockiness has preceeded all 3 of my relapses!!! I wanted so desperately to help you, but I knew you wouldn't listen to me....I also wanted to reach through the computer and smack you because I knew where you were going, but I also know that you sound just enough like me that a smack wouldn't have done you any good. I'm a stubborn SOB and I tend to learn my lessons the hard way, not to insult you, but you strike me as being similar to me in that department?

I TOTALLY hear ya on the feeling bad, but not so bad about the slip up. My first slip I felt exactly the same way. I was all like, "It was just a little slip, calm down folks, nothing to see here", then my next slip came about 2 weeks later. The second slip was a lot worse than the first, I ended up going through wd again, not terrible wd, but wd nonetheless.

I see where you're already saying that you may slip again. You've already opened the door on your next relapse Jenzo, that barn door is wide open and you're fixin' to go through another relapse......I'm gonna say it's not gonna be too far down the road either? You're playing with fire dude.

You asked what is wrong with you, YOU'RE SICK JENZO, all us addicts are sick. Our brains don't respect drugs, we keep fooling ourselves into thinking we can use responsibly......I know I sure as fuck can't use responsibly......how about you??

Listen, I documented all three of my relapses here on this forum, they're all under this one thread: http://suboxforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=3867

I wonder if you give it a read, if you'll see any similarities in your thinking and mine.

Once again, I truly apologize for jumping knee deep in your shit, but that's what it took for me to get my head out of my ass. I honestly hope you can see that I'm only doing what I know to help you. If I didn't care about you at all, I wouldn't have spent the past 20 minutes typing this up for you.

Take care of yourself jenzo.



thanks for the PM-you are really really....!!! haha not in a negative way. i for some reason saved a pain pill for a few months, then decided one day i wanted to get high-i was alone, no kid around and felt like i wanted to. why can i save pain pills for random times? wouldn't an addict have to do it right away ? how did i make 10 pills last 2 years?
hhmmm.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:32 pm 
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Lillyval wrote:
Hey Jenzo, I'm sure this isn't what you want to hear, but you need to seriously consider going back to a maintenance dose of Sub (like 4mg). I know you have worked hard on your taper but I can say from experience, and from others' experience that sometimes when we get really low on our Sub dose, our addiction rears it's ugly head. And that's a warning to get yourself to a safe place. I understand about the marriage situation, I truly do. But maybe going through marital problems and going off Sub at the same time is a recipe for disaster. This isn't to say you can't go off Sub, I am just asking you to consider delaying it for a bit. Keep posting. Keep talking about .
Lilly


I am thinking about staying on a higher dose until we get the marriage figured out, and then like 6 months after lol.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:39 pm 
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Hey Jenzo, after my last relapse pushed me so dang close to the edge of SERIOUS harm, I just "freak" when I see someone else who has relapsed and I probably over-react.

You asked me how you made 10 pills last 2 years?? I don't have an answer for that, but I have another question for you smarty pants ( :D ), if you're not an addict, how come you're on Suboxone??

BTW, if you were on Suboxone while you saved those 10 pills......THAT'S HOW YOU MADE THEM LAST 2 YEARS YOU DING DONG!!! :D

Again, please take care of yourself, OK?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:57 pm 
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Romeo wrote:
Hey Jenzo, after my last relapse pushed me so dang close to the edge of SERIOUS harm, I just "freak" when I see someone else who has relapsed and I probably over-react.

You asked me how you made 10 pills last 2 years?? I don't have an answer for that, but I have another question for you smarty pants ( :D ), if you're not an addict, how come you're on Suboxone??

BTW, if you were on Suboxone while you saved those 10 pills......THAT'S HOW YOU MADE THEM LAST 2 YEARS YOU DING DONG!!! :D

Again, please take care of yourself, OK?


i never said i wasnt an addict lmao i am just simply questioning the differences between us all. i have only been on subs for 4 months.

you are so funny!
this is serious, and im seeing my counselor tomorrow and we are going to discuss it all further.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:30 pm 
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Hey Dude,

I understand you questioning the differences between us addicts. Here's my opinion, there are a million different levels or degrees of addiction. Some addicts are so hard core they end up homeless and penniless, they can NOT stop using drugs to save their life. Some addicts are able to recognize their behavior very early on, they quit and never go back to drugs. Then you have every flavor of addict in between those two extremes.

The reason you could save 10 pills for 2 years while an addict like me would have ate those suckers up in 2 seconds flat is because we both have varying degrees of addiction.

I'm glad you're going to see your counselor tomorrow. Good for you.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:34 pm 
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Good job, Jenzo! You came right back and that's an achievement in itself!!!!

Obviously, this taper is important to you and if it is, don't give up. You actually 'sound' like you know exactly what you need to do.

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:04 pm 
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jenzo wrote:
Romeo wrote:
Hey Jenzo, after my last relapse pushed me so dang close to the edge of SERIOUS harm, I just "freak" when I see someone else who has relapsed and I probably over-react.

You asked me how you made 10 pills last 2 years?? I don't have an answer for that, but I have another question for you smarty pants ( :D ), if you're not an addict, how come you're on Suboxone??

BTW, if you were on Suboxone while you saved those 10 pills......THAT'S HOW YOU MADE THEM LAST 2 YEARS YOU DING DONG!!! :D

Again, please take care of yourself, OK?


i never said i wasnt an addict lmao i am just simply questioning the differences between us all. i have only been on subs for 4 months.


here is my take on this....you are an addict...if you take sub you don't relapse, if you don't relapse your thinking will get better...the fog will lift and that will help you solve problems...like your marriage..if you get off subs you relapse, get back in all that shit, lose your marriage and perhaps your life..you said you have only taken subs for 4 mo's? i don't understand why you are tapering at this point? perhaps you have your reasons and i have missed them on other posts...but i think you should go back up to a good level of sub and stay there for a long, long, while. i am sorry you are having so much trouble and my suggestion is just that...i'm no doctor or anything else of knowledge that could help..it is just the way i feel for you at this time. i hope all goes well with you and please keep posting.
you are so funny!
this is serious, and im seeing my counselor tomorrow and we are going to discuss it all further.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:42 pm 
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Hi Jenzo, I am sorry you are having a hard time. I am a bit confused and wondered if you could clear it up for me? If you do not want to answer no worries I understand. If I remember right from earlier posts you doc was mainly heroin? You say you have been on sub 4 months and had the pills for 2 years. Were you clean before starting sub and have been clean (except your relapse) for the last 2 years or were you on heroin until you started sub? Again you can tell me none of my business, but if you were on Heroin prior to sub then I think the answer to how you made the pills last is while on heroin it was like taking tylenol so why bother. When you were on higher doses of sub your cravings were controlled and you knew you would feel no effect, so again why bother. If I have it right then this is the first time in a while the pills would have gotten you high and it makes me worry that you may not be ready to be on such a low dose of sub, because it did not take very long to relapse. If I am remebering incorrectly I appologize. I really hope you get this figured out and can get back on track!


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:14 am 
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Breezy makes a great point, if that's how it worked out. The mind has a crazy way of creating the right circumstances for us to be our addict self. I changed those thoughts in therapy. Wishing the same for you!!


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:31 am 
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I'm sorry you're going through this right now. It's tough enough going through marital challenges by itself, much less having to also deal with these addiction, relapse, and taper issues.

You've only been on suboxone for a short time. Are you aware of the recommendations of Dr. Junig based on studies he's spoken of to us? He's said that people who are on suboxone for only a short period of time - less than a year - have an extremely high rate of relapse. That goes up to almost 100% for people under 30.

You have already slipped/relapsed (I'm not going to put a label on it) and it sounds like you're keeping open the possibility of doing it again. Do you have more pills left? Or did you finally pitch what you have left? It's my opinion based on all of these things (obviously limited information), that one of the options to consider is to go back on a maintenance dose of suboxone.

Have you addressed or learned how to deal with triggers, cravings, or even any of your self-destructive habits you formed during your active addiction? What about figuring out why (if there's a reason) you started using in the first place (to numb emotions, childhood traumas, etc.)? I think it's great that you have a counselor and that should help. Some people also recommend an addiction specialist for more targeted treatment to address exactly these issues.

I'm saying these things to be honest and straightforward with you - not to offend you or to push you. I want you to have all the available options so that you have the best chances at success. Relapses are so dangerous, just please keep that in mind.

Whatever you decide to do, we'll support you. Good luck with everything.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:43 am 
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Hey there....I completely agree with Romeo. I haven't had a relapse, but sometimes I get this feeling like one is coming on. I feel like there's something I need and a pill would set me right. One thing I have realized about myself is that this awkward feeling I get doesn't mean I need a pill. Sometimes it simply means I need some time to myself, a massage, to rest my brain, to be away from the kids. I have this need to self indulge and it's well deserved. I work hard, pay lots of bills, work out, I'm a single mom. So I deserve to self indulge...just NOT with pills. I am fearful of becoming a slave again and my worse fear is that I will develop a drug habit I won't be able to come back from. Totally NOT INTERESTED in doing that. When you start to feel those emotions...think of something else that could make you feel better aside from the drugs. Like getting away from the marriage and doing whatever it is that makes you happy (no pills though). Sometimes that's all you need. It DID take a lot for you to post your relapse. Good luck!


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:47 am 
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So, if I understand better now, you wanted to use but you didn't. You called some friends and got together, and now you are going to talk to your counselor about it. That actually sounds much healthier than what we all thought you were saying in your first post. And understanding that may (or may not) have changed some of the replies you got.
On the other had you mentioned maybe staying on Sub for another six months. That would give you a solid year under your belt and give you time to work out other issues. I think that sounds very sensible.
Like Hat said, whatever you decide, we will be here to support you.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:47 am 
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Breaking the cycle of addiction:

Thoughts about your d.o.c?......There's nothing you can do about them....ignore them. Once you enter into you're ritual....you've entered back into your cycle of addiction.


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