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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:36 pm 
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Long story short, I had tapered down to .25 mg of buprenorphine after being on pretty high dose 16 mg for several years. Any way, about two weeks ago I jumped of the .25 mg and made it for two days and was feeling cruddy but doable. Now the bad part, I came in to possession of about 150 norco 10/325 hydrcodone pills and binged on them hard for two weeks and I am back on day one of being clean. I can't believe I did that after years of having my stuff together. Hopefully this was a one time deal and I can continue my jump off of Sub without too much drama. I definitely feel worse after the two weeks than when just coming off the subs. Thanks for listening.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 10:23 pm 
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I was feeling pretty crappy, so went for a 45 min hike w/ the wife around a lake. It definitely made me feel better to get out of the house. Plus the wife is fully aware of what's going on so it is someone to talk to. I am just bummed as had I not screwed up I would be on day 16 of being free from subs and know I would def feel better.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 10:29 pm 
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Hi Kitty,

I'm sorry that you had a tough time with your jump off sub and subsequent relapse. I don't want to be discouraging at all, but what makes you think the next time you jump will be any different? I'm not asking that to be combative, but because the nature of addiction is that it's a relapsing brain disorder. You really have to be working a renewed recovery plan to go off suboxone or what happened recently will happen again. I'm not saying don't try. I'm just suggesting that you get your ducks in a row before you make another attempt. You can't just hope that you will never face temptation again.

I wish you luck and hard work!

Amy

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 10:38 pm 
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I wish I had a better answer to last question, as I certainly have been thinking about it. The only thing that comes to mind is it has been a sobering reminder the last week of what I do not want to go back to years ago before subs got my life on track. The only plan I have is if getting off subs I continue to doable is to go bac to doc and get on low dose sub again as I really had no temptations to use for over 8 years while on it.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 11:42 pm 
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The good Dr of witch owns this forum and Talkzone blog has stated time and again that we opiate addicts have three choises in the loug run.
We use.
We work a 12 step program.
Or we take Buprenorphine. .
It is his beleive that there is no 4th choise.
He tried to find one, and couldnt.
It takes a personally change, one way or another. Real change is hard to come by. I try to remember that this is for a lifetime.That opiate addiction is a deadly, cronic, relapsing disease.
Also, that recovery is a process an there comes a time when addicts want to try to live without suboxone. Some have done it. It takes work .some say only stepwork will work.
Ive only bn on sub little over 3 years, im in the aint broke dont fix it part now.
Just my 2 cents, and best of luck to you. None of this is easy...hang in there....razor56.....


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 10:20 am 
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The previous posters bring up some very good points. I suffered through several short relapses once getting off Suboxone before I got the message......you have to make a change or you're doomed to keep relapsing.

Are you working any kind of recovery plan? Do you work with an addiction counselor or go to NA or AA or SMART recovery?

I don't know this for fact, but it seems like all you did was get off Suboxone, but nothing else changed. Without that safety net of Suboxone underneath you, most addicts have to work some kind of recovery to stay clean.

I'm not trying to beat you up or anything like that, not at all. I'm just trying to help you see that your thinking and behaviors are going to have to change if you hope to stay clean. Change is hard, but it's necessary.

Keep posting, keep talking things out and please look into some kind of recovery.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 2:38 pm 
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It's day 2 now, def did not sleep last night pretty high anxiety and tossing and turning. I did have bi monthly group meetings for the last few years while on sub therapy and am still seeing counselor once a month for individual meet. I will let him know about slip, but until then I am going to still attempt to stay off the sub for now and see how it goes, just taking it one day at a time.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 3:52 pm 
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I'm glad you're still seeing a counselor, but you may want to up those visits a bit.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 5:05 pm 
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More counseling is never a bad thing, but financially it can get up there in cost. Just got back from 40 min hike with wife, I don't feel great, but it certainly doesn't make me feel worse. The anxiety is really the biggest symptom at this point, followed by lack of energy/motivation. Thanks all for feedback.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 7:25 pm 
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Went for easy 30 minute bike ride. Anyone know what the main cause of the lack of energy/motivation is while detoxing. It is so hard sometimes to get up off the couch, let alone walk around. Also I am getting distinct dizziness while exercising . I am trying l tyrosine but today is the first day I have used it. Apart from the anxiety, the no energy is the biggest problem. I am drinking lots of water to stay hydrated. I actually took my last bup dose last Thursday so have been off for 5 going on six days, but only off the norco for two days now. Thanks for any help.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 11:13 pm 
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OK, I'm sure I'm going to butcher this explanation, but I'll give it a shot anyways. :D

Opiates attach to opiate receptors in your brain. Opiate receptors in your brain are responsible for a couple/few things, one of them being mood. For years, you've flooded your brain with external opiates, so your brain went stupid on you and has forgot how to make its own. This process of your brain learning how to make its natural opiates again is basically responsible for your lack of energy. Mood and energy level are closely related. Also, your opiate receptors in your brain have gotten used to a certain level of stimulation that just doesn't happen 24/7 naturally. Those receptors now have to down-regulate (or up-regulate....I always get the two mixed up) to a normal level of stimulation.

So, your brain has to fire up its natural opiate production machinery that's been out of commision for a while AND your opiate receptors have to get used a normal level of stimulation.

The good news is, you will get better, the crap news.....it takes time.

Exercising and doing other things that release endorphins (your natural opiates) help the process along.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 12:17 am 
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Thanks Romeo for the detailed answer. I figured there was not going to be any free lunch as far as getting energy levels back to normal. Anyway it's about 9pm west coast time and anxiety is usually the problem as the night goes on and another night no sleep. Gotta pay the piper I suppose. Once again thx for info. Tomorrow day 3 at least.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 7:46 am 
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Ah, 4:30 am no sleep this is just starting and is already getting old. It seems like most people start getting a few hours of shut eye after a week or so, hopefully. Sun coming up soon, best just get up and do something. And you can add another to the list of diphenhydramine or Benadryl makes rls worse. Yuk.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:33 am 
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Hang in there Kittyspot! For me days 2-3 sucked, but were manageable- insomnia is definatly uncomfortable, but will not kill us! Just get through the day the best you can and it DOES get better!! Promise! :) Have you been taking hot baths and/ or showers? And listening to up beat music? That helped me quite a bit. Also, try to keep moving now and then- hard to get going, I know, but you will feel a bit better afterwards. Biking worked for me because I could go slowly and it was not too strenuous.
I am rooting for you! Keep posting!
BF

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 2:51 pm 
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Well it's day 3 now, I'm super tired as no sleep yet. I am wondering if the clonodine sometimes might be making me feel worse as it has yet to get me to sleep and the fatigue and dizziness side effects are really noticeable during the day. Lately even at night after taking it it seems like anxiety may actually be a little worse after taking. Just a thought I am having, I might be wrong. I gotta get outside and do something soon, at least it's nice out today.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 3:47 pm 
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Hmmm, those Norco's are really making you pay for it, aren't they? You jumped off a pretty low dose of Sub, so I don't think the Sub is what's hitting you, I'm guessing it's the Norco's? The only good thing with full agonist wd is it hits hard and fast, but is usually much more short lived than Sub wd.

I hope things get better for you soon, man. Keep hanging in there!!

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 4:18 pm 
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I think you may be correct, it's actually been since last Thursday that my last dose of .25 mg of bup was so I'm on day 6 off that, but I was a glutton on the norco and it's only day three off that. I have heard 72 hrs is the peak of Wd off the short acting so hopefully today may be the worst of it. What doesn't kill u makes u stronger LOL. Thanks for the help.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 4:35 pm 
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I did push through a 30 min bike ride, I am surprised it didn't make me feel better, but at least not worse. And 30 min closer to day 4.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:06 pm 
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It's 7pm, I'm super tired but getting worried I won't sleep. Aaagh.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:11 pm 
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Have you tried any supplements, man? Sleepy Time Tea, Valerian Root, Unisom (the one with Doxylamine Succinate), Melatonin? A supplement may not get you 7 hours, but it may help you get an hour or two or three. Better than a big fat zero, right?

Also, a hot shower or bath with Epsom salt.....many swear by it.

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