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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2015 6:19 am 
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Hi, thank you for having such an informative forum. I don't know how much I've read over the last two days, but it's been a lot.

I did something really stupid, and I very desperately want to get better. I will try to be as brief as possible. I think o should be ok, but I made a mistake of being a hypochondriac/having ocd and reading something online. My hat just leads to trouble. Since so much of this whole deal is mental, often when I read symptoms of things I start believing I have that or it will happen to me. I did that with suboxone.

Ok, I started suboxone after I became addicted to heroin for the first time ten years ago. I did the normal dr. Induction in moderate withdrawals. It took two hours, but then worked extremely well. I ended up taking 8mg Once per day and tapered to 1-2mg once per day.

Shortly after, maybe months, I relapsed. I was young and dump and an addict. But after a few months I went back to the dr, and got back on suboxone.

I have taken suboxone for ten years and believe it to be a lifesaver. I had a couple of relapses during those years, but most of the time I was a healthy, happy functioning member of society.

It has been so long, but during those years somewhere, I ended up where the suboxone would only block the heroin for a couple hours, and I could feel heroin a couple of hours after taking suboxone. There were other little changes. And I didn't keep a diary, I should have, to remember everything and maybe know what caused what. For instance.

Suboxone went from taking two hours to kick in to one
It didn't last as long, and I would take it three times a day

:arrow: here is my main problem, several months ago I relapsed on heroin. I intended to only do it for one night, but started taking suboxone in the morning, intending to get back on my suboxone routine, and then every night I would lose will power and do heroin. Every night I swore to myself that was the Last night and I would get back to normal,tomorrow and I would fail at night. I would probably take my last injection around midnight and take suboxone upon waking 8-12 hours later. Times varied.

A couple times I made it for a couple days and started getting back on suboxone and it would be like the other times I had re induced the most recent times, years ago. I would feel tired and some withdrawals for three to five days and then get back to the normal suboxone feeling, which is, well, normal.

Somewhere a couple months ago I started to feel edgy in the mornings, very edgy, I dint realize it, but I believe it was precipitated withdrawal. ,I should add that my typical morning dose is less than 1mg of suboxone so perhaps they aren't full blown pwd but I felt very, very edgy. Heroin would take the edge off. But I wouldn't get high. It around this time also started almost completely blocking the effects of heroin. Blocked for 12-36 hours.

:arrow: I really, really started to want to quit and am very serious about never making this mistake again. What I read that bothered me was that suboxone stopped working for some people, or didn't work as good. Also it was harder to re induce after that first time. This scared me to no end. My have been having constant panic attacks since reading this.

Even though I have always gotten back on suboxone without too much trouble, it has always been shorter periods of relapsing, not months like this time.

I stopped taking suboxone and only heroin about a week ago because I didn't know what else to do and knew I needed to get my act together and all I was doing was taking two opiates. I should never have read that. I shouldn't have read anything. It's scaring me from taking for fear this time I will get horrible pwd of that it won't work. I don't want to be on heroin,m I am desperate to get back on my suboxone routine but I am scared.

My girlfriend says its medicine and this is what it is for and it has always worked in the past and it will work now. Why wouldn't it?m she says everybody is different and not to read anyhing online and just wait until I am in withdrawal and take my medicine. It will right? It doesn't just not work, it works, based on my story do I have any evidence to even suggest it won't?

Am I just being a scared addict and should take my medicine and hope for the best? Please know that if I could go back in time I never would have touched heroin, and I would never have done it this time. I am truly surprised by my actions, I didn't think I could let myself slide so,far out of control. I sincerely want to take my medicine and never touch heroine ever again. I feel stable on suboxone. I don't get hi, or a glow, I just feel stable.

Over the years I had worked out a routine and amount to take that worked and I was able to have a successful happy life. I need to get that back, but if the suboxone doesn't work, I don't know what else I would do. Please help give me the courage to take that step and take my medicine and get back on track.m I haven't lost everything, I don't want to lose everything.

I need to hear some positive experiences of other people who have relapsed and taken suboxone again and got back on track. I haven't gotten completely off suboxone and had to go into withdrawals to re induce since the beginning. Any other relapse was short and I was on the subs again within a day or two, but while it was still on my receptors and I didn't worry about pwd. Should I now! Or should I just wait until I'm sniffly, emotional, restless, stomach upset and take a small amount,may 1mg, wait an hour, depending take 1-2 mg every hour until I feel better.

Thanks to those of you who have read this.


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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2015 7:36 am 
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Teddy

My son had a similar experience a few years ago. He relapsed on dope, IV'ing multiple bags a day. When he tried to get back on sub he had a hard time. I kept him in the house for several days & he did take a small amount of benzo to calm down. I don't know why it took longer for him to get stable on the sub then previous times but it did scare him. Scared him enough that it was the last time he "played" around with heroin. It's now 3.5 years later and he is doing great. After that experience he did go for therapy and i think that helped alot. He was more focused on Recovery then just taking sub.

IMO there are thousands of people who are doing great on sub. They just go on living life so we don't hear from them on the web.

It sounds like you could benefit from counseling or other support to stay away from dope. It helped my son so i would bet it would help you.


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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2015 9:15 am 
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Ok, I will be going to therapy.mmthis has scared me straight, I really believe that.

So it did work for your son though right? It was just harder to make the transition? I believe so much of it is mental, and I'm scared and trying to get my mental,state brave and strong.

It still works though right? I'm trying to look at the fact that taking suboxone has been blocking heroin effects for days and that when I took less than 1mg in the morning is was making me super edgy, I think mild precipitated withdrawal. Those are signs the suboxone is still working right? That if taken properly will work like it is supposed?


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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2015 11:15 am 
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Hey Teddy and welcome :)

Honestly I've never relapsed since I've been on suboxone but what I do know is that if ur not taking sub the way it's meant to be taken, it's definitely not going to do it's job the way it was without putting heroin in the mix. There's been ppl on sub yrs and yrs and it doesn't stop working, so ur totally safe on that issue. If ur having cravings then maybe since this relapse, u need ur dose raised. Are u under a doctor supervision? I'm wondering about ur drug screen and testing positive for heroin.

I think u need to do some extra counseling, possibly raise ur dose If ur still having cravings for heroin, and just realize that relapse happens and u can move forward. Just jump bk solely on ur sub, it will work. I can promise u that ur sub has not stopped working, ur probably not feeling like it is because ur bouncing back and forth between sub and heroin. U gotta stop the using, get bk to recovery....but I'm sure u already know that. U can do this!! Good luck :)

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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2015 2:48 pm 
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Teddy,

Jenn is Spot On! No one judges here, we just want to help.

It's hard as hell to deal with starting sub when you are scared. You can do this and YES the sub worked for my son. He was scared...I am telling you the honest truth, he kept saying "mom, it's not working" because he was still sick, not as sick as before but not "well". You know what i mean? We did wonder if it was PW's but i googled it and it wasn't "hell" like i read PW's were, so he just pushed ahead. It was very hard for him not to run to dope, he wanted to use because he wanted to feel "well". But he wanted more to have a life without dope.

3.5 years later he is a Dad. When his son was born it ROCKED his world. He is a single dad now and Loves it. He still takes his sub everyday and has accepted it's medication he needs to have a life (it's still working fine for him). He has had the same job for 3 years, gotten promotions, gone back to school to advance in his job. Simply stated, he has a Life.

People can go back and forth about using sub but i can say it Saved my Son's life. His last OD before going on sub he lost his hearing for 10 days, lost the use of his left side for 10 days, i had to support him to get to the bathroom, it was awful. I didn't know if he would ever get back to normal & the doctors just said wait and see...WHAT...but they didn't know how much damage was done. He is one of the lucky ones.

I want you to be a Lucky one. Give yourself time, 20-30 hours after last use. Tell yourself it will be the last time you have to feel crappy. When you are in moderate to severe w/d's take your sub. Start low and go up until you feel ok, just ok and give yourself a few days of just the sub. It will work. You have to do some recovery work. Ok? You know i am not a doctor so take this for what it's worth (have to add that).

Please keep posting...now i will worry about you LOL


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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2015 7:24 pm 
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Thanks. I will keep you updated. Anymore positive induction experiences are welcome. I agree the bad ones are the ones that usually get written about, not the positive ones.


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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2015 9:09 pm 
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Teddy,
You ve gotten some great advice from tiki with her sons experience and Jenn really aked some good questions too.

I would agree, start over with a induction and a higher dose of Buprenorphine to hold you . Your cravings are not eing squashed.

And yo yoing back and forth will only in the end take the therapeutic advantage of sub away from you.

Do you have a dr? A program or accountability to some one? With out this drug replacement therapy really can't work at its best.

I understand it can be hard to find a dr or pay for treatment.

Sub will work for you again if you start over again. But useing H in the mix flat out kills the therapy.

Hope you keep posting Ted..


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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 1:59 am 
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I am weighing my different treatment options.

Therapy I am going to. I am seeing a psychiatrist to work on the underlying mental issues. I don't believe my suboxone doctors in the past really have a great knowledge of,what does works best, either that or it is individual and different patients are different. He
Rhett much asked me what has worked best for me in the past and put me on that and said some of his patients do well at higher doses and some lower.

For accountability, I came clean to my girlfriend about what I have been doing and I am in the process of coming clean to my parents. I have half told them. I intend to tell them thre rest.

How bad do I have to feel before I take suboxone, in the past I waited maybe 16 hours. Should it be the same?


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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 9:57 am 
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A key mechinasm of physcological addiction are statements "I expected to take heroin for one night then stop. If I was doing heroin I would tell myself (I know it is easier said then done) but this is trying to condition the thought process. I would try to tell myself if "if I do Herion I am not going to be able to do it for just one night. We are conditioned for the reward. Suboxone in a sense tricks are brains into feeling normal. If we could do as Suboxone but for our psychological thoughts, are conscious thoughts our inner voice self conditioning that voice not to prime our selfs for reward.

I know it would be nice to know how long withdrawals will last etc. "Thinking out loud"...again this makes it harder for us to do anything. Take a look at a non addict. If a non addict stops his pain meds or any medication and becomes sick they wonder what's going on. They don't have that inner voice we do when it comes to drugs. This is dependency not addiction. They may think they have the flu but usually do not connect the two. This is the diffrence between us and them,they ar not expecting anything. . In other words if a person is going to jump, try to think of it as you are coming down with the flu and this shall pass, like a psychological Suboxone. I know that duration of use has no effect on coming off of Suboxone. Its the different levels/stages of sickness our inner voice is, that produce varying accounts of people coming off Suboxone.

I would start Suboxone with out any expectations. Then go from there.

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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 7:17 am 
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Thank you for the replies. I am getting ready to go to bed , I will check back here tomorrow. I a, hoping for some encouraging posts before I put the strip under my tongue tomorrow. You know how easy it is to say "tomorrow". I am somewhat alone on this. I have a girlfriend who know, but she is pretty busy and will stay with me part of the day.

I really wish I had someone that would baby me for the day and give me lots of encouragement, but I'm not trying to complain. I have a nice house, can take as much time off as I need, plenty pay of good food, movies and tv shows, books, the Internet, my dog. Coffee!

I am very thankful for all of that and many other things in my life. I wish my mom was here. I feel like a bog here year old who want his mommy, but mommy wants me to succeed, and I want her to have a good life and think positive about me, so she is step two. If I don't succeed soon I will tell her and have her watch me, which would probably be a combination of yelling at me and babying me. I think she said the only ting she want me to never do is heroin again. She really worries about it, everytime i,say something like " I've got to tell you something" she says "gasp" you're doing drugs again." But this time it would be true. So I don't want to stress her out.m I want to get back on suboxone and then decide what to tell her.

So, from you guys I was just hoping from encouragement. I am suffering fro the "I feel alone" feelings these days and some you can do it attitude will be great. My girlfriend doesn't understand what I am so worried about. She just says, "you've done it before, it was t that bad". It's my OCD. I can't tell if what I fear is real or imagined or if it is a combination of both, say I should be worried, just not nearly as much as I am.

So with this OCD, I've been reading a,ot, and it does seem like there are people that have gone back and forth between dripugs and suboxone and had a harder time getting back on suboxone. I don't know how common it is, I don't know how mental it is. But at least the common theme seems to be that most to all reports that they report back and stick with taking e suboxone it works and really starts working after a couple days.

No one really says, but I assume you know soon after taking it if it is working? You don't feel boing for three days and then it tarts to work right! I ,wan, if this even happens to me. You feel something, something to know it's working, just maybe not that glow like in the beginning. Right? So once I take it I will know tomorrow right?

My plan is wait a sufficient amount of time. I remember the last time I did this, I was at the movie theater watching Mathew mccaughnehey in Sahara. And at a certain point I just said "f it" I'm ready and took it and immediately went home and fell asleep.

So I wait a suffice to amount of time, probably 14-24 hours.
1-2 mg. probably the very first one just 1. You can always take more fit? That's the saying anyways.
Wait one hour. Now here is where everything wil depend upon how I feel, but talk 1-2mg
Wait an hour 2 mg more and repeat until feeling better, I kind of think I will know when I have taken as much and feel as good as I will. I do not expect to be out running any marathons for a while.

Sound like a plan? Wish me luck, and feel free to post any stories about how it worked for you, or how you knew it was working, or even feel,free to tell me not to worry, that I obviously am ocd'ing about this and it will be fine.


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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 9:59 am 
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Hey teddy ,
Ok...here ya go!!!! Your going to be fine. You will. For the most part you should induct fairly easy.

Dont be scared be Pumped!! Your useing days are over, right? We will be here for you man. Ok? Your not alone. I like that the GF is on board. And she is right Ted, it worked before and it will again.

I inducted myself 4 1/2 years ago, at home..get this, watchin Sahara!!!I started laughing out loud shen I read that!!!

And it went well, I start on a low dose after a day of waiting and, ya, went to sleep. Woke up the next morning a free man!!

Thats the truth Ted..this is what happened to me..odd huh?

Look, you are all set as far as i can see..food, DOG,gf, tv,movies, you will be fine .

Ted, your not alone. . Just make sure your in moderate wd before you take your first small dose.. .


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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 4:25 pm 
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Teddybear,

You are not alone! There are members following your story and reading along with you. I know it can be scary to do this induction, but you can make it work! Keep talking to us.

Amy

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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 6:00 pm 
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Thanks. Funny you were watching Sahara too. I'm not feeling too bad yet, so I'm just playing around online and waiting.m thanks for the encouragement.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 12:46 pm 
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Hi Teddy. I just wanted to wish you well and let you know that everyone here is here for you. Good luck with everything, stay strong.


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