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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:40 am 
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Hello,

As you'll not know me as I am new to the forum, I will begin by saying that I only started my treatment 10 days ago. and already i have messed up!

I have not taken my suboxone for 5 days because I decided I wanted some Herion instead. I know why and what triggered it. I had been taking my Suboxone in the evenings and I was finding i could not sleep (think this is because I was taking it in the evenings [have now decided i will take in mornings once i get back on track]). Anyway 5 days ago I had the worst night sleep and finally dropped off at 4am only to be up again for work 3 hours and 30 minutes later. I got up and because i was tired and grumpy I took my frustration out on my husband - i was like a bear with a sore arse. We had a stupid row and I went to work feeling shit literally fighting to stop the tears running down my face whilst on the train surrounded by hundreds of commuters! Actually the tears were running down my face every so often. I felt so depressed. So I came home that night and scored some Herion and now here I am 5 days later still having a smoke each day. I also had my birthday 2 days ago and that was also an excuse just to have another lick!.

I have told myself today's smoke was the last time and to get myself mentally focused again and start the Subs again. But now i will need to wait for at least 24 hours and/or until I am feeling sick/WD-ing first. And that's the thing I was feeling so brilliant once the Suboxone was in my system and not having the sickness etc to deal with everyday, and now I have to start all over again!!!

I know I'm not the first to relapse and won't be the last but if anyone can share an experience and provide me with some words of encouragement i would be so so grateful. I am hoping it will get easier and relapsing will become few and fare between. Has anyone done the same as me and come out good the other end? Please give me some hope to focus on. I really really want to change my life - I need the old me back (she is still inside somewhere and i know she is a happier person).

Love to you all

Babydoll (London, UK) xxx


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 2:24 pm 
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Hi Babydoll (awesome screen name by the way),

Take a deep breath, you're OK. The fact that you posted tells me how serious you are about getting things straightened out.

I had a relapse about a month ago now and I remember how terrified I was that I wouldn't be able to stop, I remember how completely shitty I felt that I let opiates beat me, I remember being in tears over it all. It was all just too much for me, then I reached out to some friends for help and the help I received was fantastic. No one told me how bad I just fucked up, no one told me that I was a loser.....these friends offered their love and support to me and that made all the difference for me.

I went 4 days straight before I put the opiates down and got back on my horse. You can do it too Babydoll!! It's never too late, OK?

You said, "I know why and what triggered it." and that's a great first step back towards recovery, you can use this relapse as a learning experience and use it to strengthen yourself!! My relapse has made my recovery SO much stronger!!

Happy belated Birthday, why don't you give yourself a NEW birthday present, get back on Suboxone, learn from the mistake you made, use it to make your recovery stronger and know that you most certainly are not the only one who ever relapsed!!

Love,

Romeo

Pay particular attention to my signature, it sums it up nicely.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:43 pm 
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Hi babydoll and welcome.
Yes, I think many of us have gone through this. After I had been on sub for about two months I decided to stop my sub for a few days and get high. I did this several times until I realized I can't have it both ways. I was taking more and more drugs to get less and less high. Plus I felt guilty at how much people were sacrificing to be on Sub, and how many people were on waiting lists or couldn't get on it period, and I was messing around with it.
Someone once said Sub is for when you are at the end of the road, not so you can circle the block, and that is so true. It sounds like you felt much better (and better about yourself) when you were on the Sub. It won't be as hard to get back on it. If you were only using for 5 days you should be able to start Sub again after about 12 hours from your last dose.
Hope you post again and let us know how how are doing.
Take care,
Lilly


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:29 pm 
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Hi and thank so much for your replies.

I've bloody done it again though today (had a smoke) I am mad at myself. There is no excuse for it I just did it. (It is hard because my husband is also an addict and we just seem to influence each other - we both want to get off the H, but if it is not me putting the idea of having a smoke into our heads it him putting the suggestion there) My husband isn't on Subs though he went on Methadone - i have told him he should give Subs a try instead but I don't think he will).

I am just going to have to muster the strength and will power to stay clear of it and I need to learn to realise i should not be chosing the H everytime something happens ie any little trigger or excuse to have toot! Such as a bad night's sleep or knowing that we've got this week off work so hell why not score a gram and have a smoke! Pathetic really knowing we could be doing something much more fun - like enjoying a day out in the countryside or taking a drive down to the coast or something like that. Take today for example - as I am writing this on the computer my husband is fast asleep on the settee (has been for the last 3 hours! what a waste of a day) I need to remind myself of this next time.

I need to be strong and focused.

It's a great help knowing that by morning time (say another 15 hours) I should be OK to take my Suboxone again. i have to keep in mind how much better I felt and also that actually when the Sub got into my system properly the cravings did subside.

Sorry for the waffling on - I will come back tomorrow and hopefully be letting you know I re-started the Suboxone again.

Love and hugs for now

Babydoll

:)


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:17 pm 
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Babydoll,

http://twistedfencepost.files.wordpress ... ive-up.jpg

Click on that link and check out the picture. My sister used to have this picture on the wall in her bedroom, it has ALWAYS stuck in my head!!

Don't EVER give up!!

(((HUGS)))

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:03 am 
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Hey Baby doll,

So sorry for what your going thru... I was just wondering what else your doing for your sobriety? Are you involved in some type of support group? There are so many to choose from these days. There is AA/NA, RR, SMART and my fav is CBT. I did learn after years of doping that I could not do it alone. I also learn that what I tell myself will happen. I hate when I hear folks say.. well it part of the process. I don't believe that. I don't think one HAS to relapse even though it happens often. Opiate addicts seem to relapse more then other. What I see a lot is those that choose sub or meth feel like they don't need the support. I actually read one doc say he didn't see the need in Na. I grant you.. AA/NA is not for everyone but we ALL need support. We have no idea how to deal with life, the little shit like traffic jams, lack of sleep etc. We see those things as triggers, reasons to use.

This is where the support comes in. For me.. though I do go to AA I don't swallow every thing I hear. (CBT being my main treatment mode). I don't feel that I need to go to meeting the rest of my life. I need them now but if I don't go I don't think I am heading for a relapse. I believe we have to be care what we say to ourselves. If we tell ourselves this or that is a trigger then it surly will be...what I tell myself is when I don't sleep well I may need to be more diligent that day in my support plan of action. I have seen it over and over.. AA members lay out of meetings and then they relapse. They so set themselves up for it. Over and over they hear "when I lay off meetings you best believe I am using". what happens is they talk themselves into relapse.

I have little saying all over my house, positive sayings on how the day is going to go. If I hear my inner voice saying.. "damn, I am depressed" or "I deserve a little bump".. I immed began a sort of chant of how I choose the day to be a great day. What ever fits the need. Any negative thought will take hold so much easier and faster then positive talk..

Don't let the quilt take hold either. Quilt I see useless. What is done is done. Cant turn back the clock. Pick up you ass and start all over. I do hope you choose life without dope but it totally up to you. If you don't have a support system in place I hope you began to obtain one. I hope you do realize that if nothing changes then really nothing will change. If you keep using Monroe street to dump into paca street... it wont all of a sudden dump you into baker street. Does this make sense to you?

I wish you luck.... I hope you get some support and not try this alone. We are not meant to be alone, we are a species that depend on one another. I tried doing it my way over and over and always failed. I don't really call them relapse since I really never stayed clean long enough to know who I was or what I was all about. This time... things are so different for me. I don't struggle with cravings or negative thoughts Have had my moment of clarity i guess. I was shown my part in my drug use. I see without a doubt what I need to do to keep what I have.

Basse

Birdie


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:17 am 
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Hello all, and thanks again for the words of support.

Birdie, I will have other support networks too. I went to a government funded rehab centre, after finanlly realising I could not do it alone anymore. That is, I had tried so many times to stop myself, but just couldn't because of the sickness/w/d's. They have a doctor there that has prescribed me the medication and there is also one to one key worker sessions, group sessions and one to one councelling too. I have yet to start any meetings yet - my first session is Tuesday. So i will let you know how it goes. The only thing that is worrying me at the moment is if they keep cancelling or changing the appointments at the last minute - because my husband has had that. And it's just not that easy when one works full time and it takes me an hour to get back to my home area (and where the treatment centre is) from where i work. But we will just have to see what happens.

By the way almost forgot to say I started the Subs again yesterday. Felt a little rubbish yesterday and last night I was drentched in sweat!!! Totally minging! But feel good today and hoping to keep going with it.

Take care for now

Lots of Love

Babydoll xxx


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 9:31 am 
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You know Babydoll I've been on Suboxone now for 18 months, we CANNOT go back to re-capture some old good feeling, thats why the " One day at a time " saying was invented.... I have struggled to " feel good " way back when I was still taking pills.. I would say the last year taking pain pills I was trying to find that feeling I had when I 1st started taking them. Hell, I was chasing feeling good way before I even knew about Suboxone, Please do NOT feel alone !!!!!! Mike


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:26 am 
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I feel like such a hypocrit! I have fucked up again. Why do I do this to myself. God only knows. Payday I suppose didn't help - bloody money burning a big hole in my pocket. Stopped the subs 7 days ago and have used DOC (The devil which is heroin) for the time since. I really am so p1ssed off with myself. Even though I know how much better the subs made me - like I could function normally - and what does idiot here do? Give in to her cravings. I'm so sorry I feel like I have let everyone down here that passed on their words of encouragement. I want to stop using H so much, I have no life on it but I keep giving in to just wanting it. The doctor prescribed me 8mg of suboxone a day. I have heard on this site that if the dosage is right then the cravings stop. I'm wondering if I need a slightly higher dose per day than 8mg? I have not been able to go to work for the last 2 days. yesterday i took the day off with the intention of getting to a state of withdrawal again and then i could take my suboxone. Temptation got ther better of me and I caved in. So I am trying my hardest to do the same today. Its been 18.5 hours since i last had a smoke, and I am feeling pretty crappy. Had nausia for ther last 6 hours. I am sweating and have goosebumps on my arms, have been yawning a little and eyes a bit watery, pupils are no longer pinned. I am wondering if i am ready yet? or should I just hang opn as long as possible just to make sure.
So sorry again - i honestly honestly want to get better.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:53 pm 
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Took 4mg 3 hours ago. Didn't have much relief. Took another 4mg 40 minutes ago. Feel ok. Husband not home from work yet. Bet he's trying to score somewhere! I know I need to concentrate on me and not worry about what my other half is doing but its hard not to. X


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:37 pm 
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Babydoll,

Just reading the information supplied on the Suboxone prescription, it says the maintenance dose is 16mg's. After reading so much about this drug, it really is for H addicts versus pain pill addicts. (most will disagree with this including me)

IMO your dose is too low if you are still having cravings. Maybe you should be on 16 and not 8. Ask your doctor and see what he says. I had absolutely no cravings on that dose. Doesn't hurt to ask.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:42 pm 
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Omg I should have had more faith and not jump to conclusions. Hubby is home and wasn't up to no good. Need to work on my paranoia. So ashamed!

Feeling ok after taking my sub. All my symptoms have gone except for just a bit of a nausia in my stomach.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:46 pm 
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Babydoll,

I'm going to agree with Rule 62, I think you should try a higher dose. I was on 16mg for a good while and had no cravings whatsoever, now, my spouse wasn't a drug addict though. It's a well known fact that 2 drug addicts in a relationship make for an extremely difficult recovery.

Now, about your relapse.....Babydoll, you're a drug addict, just like I am. You have a disease, it's called addiction and it can be a BEAR to deal with at times. Suboxone alone did NOT solve my problems. I worked closely with an addiction counselor for the 3 years I was on Suboxone. I learned a lot about addiction, I learned a lot about myself and this work helped me to stay clean. In my opinion, you have some work to do Babydoll.

Please, don't feel like you let us down, although I know exactly where you're coming from when you say that. I spoke almost the exact same words in the the relapse thread I started. You didn't let us down, you let yourself down. I don't mean to be harsh, I hope you don't take that as me being harsh.

Anyway, if you can't get in with an addiction counselor, hit some NA meetings. I started going a couple of weeks ago and I love them. I'm learning LOTS, making friends......who are clean.....it's helping me a lot.

Take care.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 5:41 pm 
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thanks guys. i am going to speak to my doctor about my dose. i don;t really want to increase it that much if I can help it, but if it does the job in the short term then so be it. I am also going to speak to my key-worker about councelling sessions because I have yet to start any, even though I have asked her and said to her that i think i want that extra support. I am also going to find out about any local NA meetings and see how they suit me. I am open to try anything i can to get myself sorted out. I will let you know how it goes. This is a great forum and has helped me alot so far. Keep posting everyone. Lots of Love xxx C xxx


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 6:10 am 
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I agree that your dose should probably be raised if you're having so many cravings. If I were you, I'd get with my doctor ASAP and explain what's been going on and ask for a dose increase. I really hope this helps you. What you need to remember is that using almost always quickly ends at the same dead end - institutionalized or dead. Eventually you'll stop the suboxone altogether and you'll be back on that downward spiral. That's how I look at it. Good luck...you can do this, I know you can. Hang in there and keep posting. We're here for you.

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 Post subject: Feeling Much Better
PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:00 am 
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Ok so as you know its been about 7 weeks since I first started suboxone, and I had 2 little episodes of going back to H. And then back to the S, and then on 25th May I had a lapse that went on for 7 days. :x Wednesday 1st June I tried to get myself sufficiently into w/d's so i could start S again, but gave in when my hubby came home from work and we ended up getting H instead. So gave it another go Thursday. Felt pretty bad and took a tablet at 4pm (4mg) which eased some of the w/d's a little. Then took another 4mg at 7pm. Felt much better but still had stomach ache and felt nausius. Took another 2mg at bedtime. Friday (yesterday) went in work. Took 8mg in morning and another 4mg in the evening. I am actually prescribed 8mg per day but felt I was struggling and the little extra has helped me. As you know I am going to speak to my dr. about possibly raising the dose a little anyway just to see if that helps me stop the cravings and brings and end to the laspes that i have had so far. I know the S's alone will not do all the work and I am looking into councelling and meetings etc. Today I have taken my 8mg this morning and I have no stomach ache or other nasty symptoms. In my experience have noticed from the past when I have re-started the S's i have to reach day 3 before all the horrid w'd symptoms have gone. It is really rubbish having to get through those first few days. I am a wimp and hate feeling sick and achy, but glad it only goes on for a few days. Phew! My plan now is to keep taking each day as it comes and hope that I do not lapse again. i will most probably start a new thread once i feel my lapses are far behind me. I have been advised that it is normal to have lapses during ones recovery, but I don't want them to keep happening to me. Going round and round in circles is not what i want - it's far too exhausting - physically, emotionally, finacially. So fingers crossed I have broken it this time. Anyway, will check in again soon. take care all xxx C xxx


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:39 am 
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I would run as far away from T as possible, don't look back, and then run some more, if not, you will be facing some serious heat. GL


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:02 am 
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I take full responsibility for the situation I found myself in. It's not that simple just to run away from someone. There are many many aspects of my relationship with my husband. one of them being that we ended up getting addicted to heroin. unfortunately. thank you for showing some concern but my husband and I still have a future. I know we can beat our addictions. we both want to so much and time will tell if we succeed. We both work; are both in professional roles. we are close to our families. it's not all doom and gloom. There may be some odd's stacked against us.... i know it's not the best situation to be in when there are 2 addicts married who are trying to get better. but somehow your words have helped me feel even more determined. Call me a stubborn mule, but i love my husband and won't let this infliction ruin all the other great things we have together. Lots of Love xxx C xxx :)


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:44 am 
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Hey babydoll,

I read through a bit of your experience recently...and there's been a lot of good ideas and advice. As you said yourself, you know what you need to do...and when you are ready you will do it and do it consistently. Relapses are not failures, they are opportunities to learn more about ourselves and our lives, what we need emotionally and in our recoveries. You said you heard relapses are common and yes they are, esp. for opiate addicts. Opiate cravings are challenging to get over. Some never get over them. I know on Sub for me I do not h ave any more cravings for opiates and that is an amazing thing, one I'm grateful for. I've had years of recovery before, without sub or any replacement therapy, and the cravings took me down, especially once I found myself in a bunch of stress.

What I'd also suggest is looking at your triggers of relapse, what was going on with you prior to your relapses...and see how you were vulnerable emotionally, physically, spiritually, etc. The more we get to know ourselves and why we use (mostly to deny our feelings) the more we can close those specific doors and not allow our addiciton back in.

As you probably know or heard, relapse happens long before you actually pick up and use. Our thinking changes....behaviors may even be a clue (isolation, lying, minimizing etc) and when the opportunity to use arises, or some emotional thing happens that is too painful for us, we are at risk for using. It's taken me years of meetings and therapy to understand why I used and what I have to do to strengthen myself and my recovery. Loneliness is a very big trigger and so is anger....resentments are deadly for addicts. If we don't deal with the resentments those resentments can really hurt us. We may not use but our behavior can be affected and the goal in recovery is to learn how to deal with these uncomfortable feelings without drugs and without reacting or causing more problems in our lives by uncontrolled acting out. I know a woman who I just fired as my sponsor, who has 17 years in AA. No relapses she has told us. Well, wtihin a couple of weeks I could see that she did not have what I wanted in any way, shape, or form. Talk about a dry drunk...yet she is not so "dry" imo. She drinks near beer, has a gallon of gin, half empty in her pantry, is prescribed xanax but takes it much more than prescribed...she admits to popping 10 of them in order to deal with her recent firing. She yells at people, says whatever she feels like, and is all over the board emotionally. That, to me, is not recovery. She admits to stealing supplies from her previous work, and she tries to get by with very little integrity...her word is not to be trusted.

My point, you ask? Recovery is more than just not using. It's about learning new tools and ways to deal with the feelings that we have always masked behind sex, drugs, shopping, gambling, food, or whatever. It's common to cross addict to something else especially early in recovery....and recovery is such hard work. So, don't beat yourself up for wanting heroin. Of course you will want it, right now especially. But when you give your brain a chance to heal and rewire and as that is happening and you are building new ways to live life in a more real sense the idea of heroin will soon sound horrible. You'll become more comfortable in your own skin and seriously you will be amazed at the changes you've made. I remember waking up one day and realizing I'd put together a year of sobriety and couldn't believe it! Prior to that it had taken me about 10 years in and out of AA/NA learning about myself.

It's great you are talking about it. People on this forum get it...and you will get a lot of support....as you already have. Keep closing the doors to some of the addict thinking that will pop up....surround yourself with people who have what you want in recovery, find someone trusted you can talk about your more personal issues and to have as an accountability partner. (not your husband! he will get his own "sponsor") and I completely agree with the idea in AA/NA that women stick with women, men with men...not meaning you can't talk to men but that a sponsor should be of the same sex. I've heard a ot of women say "Oh I get a along better with men" or men say "I can talk to women more easily"...well, to me that's bullshit. It's a great excuse imo. My ex used to say that....he had no male friends and had all his ex lovers emailing him, calling him. It just stroked his ego and allowed him to not have to face himself. You never know what the motive is of someone of the opposite sex in early recovery....especially as having a new relationship or having sex in early recovery is a good way of escaping the reality of life. Not saying you are doing that....just talking about why same sex sponsorship is important.

I also agree that you might need a bit higher maintenance dose of Sub for a couple of months. Once your brain gets a chance to heal you can then start to taper down to the lowest dose where you won't have cravings. Half the point of being on Sub is to not have to suffer through craving.

Good luck....and I hope you and your husband can be in recovery together...it can work and it can be a very positive thing. If,however, you find he is still using...well you'll have to make decisions about your life if that occurs...for now just focus on your own recovery because that's all you can do...change yourself.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 11:46 am 
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Hey Babydoll dude,

Something you mentioned in your last post really struck a chord with me. You mentioned how you had heard that relapses during recovery are normal, Yep, I used that same bullshit thinking to "allow" myself a couple of relapses too. It wasn't the whole reason for the relapses, but it did the first critical thing that I needed......it gave me permission to relapse, once I gave myself permission, a relapse was inevitable.

I know you want to quit "fucking up", I did too, desperately, but you're gonna have to remove that permission to relapse or permission to use just this once or whatever else you may tell yourself to justify using.

I used both of my relapses as learning experiences. I, with the help of many on this forum, figured out what was driving my relapses, learned what those triggers were and have put steps into place to prevent anything like that from happening again.

Remember, dealing with addiction is NOT a simple matter of willpower, there is SO much more to it than that!! Willpower is great, don't get me wrong, but my stubborness was seriously getting in the way of me learning from my last relapse. Thank God there are people on this forum who cared enough about me to be honest with me and they told me exactly what they thought......it hurt like hell, but I REALLY needed to hear it.

This has been my experience and I wanted to share it with you.

Babydoll, YOU CAN DO THIS!!!

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