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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:51 pm 
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setmefree wrote:
I'm with you Lillyval! I'm appalled at how Romeo's confidence has been broken so blatantly! I'm sorry, Laddertipper, I think you're probably a pretty great person, but if you think that what you posted is going to help your "friend" Romeo, you couldn't be more wrong, in my opinion. I am so very serious right now! I know what it feels like to have yourself "busted" publicly (I'm not talking about this board at all)....I'm talking about when my addiction was discovered in my workplace. The thoughts of everyone I worked with, had relationships with, who I respected and who respected me in return, knowing what I had done....that I was a friggin drug addict....came damn close to killing me! Literally! It was bad enough that I was having to face how sick I was....that I was cut off from drugs cold-turkey....facing a near certain loss of a 20 year career....facing disclosing all of this to my family....But add to that, the fact that I knew that all these people were talking about me, speculating about me, knowing what I had done, talking crap about me, probably joking about me, etc. nearly drove me to want to end it all! I had NEVER in my life suffered from depression, anxiety, or any mental disorder at all, much less even considered the desperate measure of ending my own life. But the public way that my 'secret' came out was just about more than I could bear. Only by the grace of God and the knowledge that His forgiveness was there for me and that because of my beliefs I had a shot at redemption...did I survive that experience!
To disclose Romeo's private conversations and personal relationship with you is the epitome of betrayal! It's about as far away from "love" as you can get! Furthermore, relationships are a two-way street. Are you going to portray yourself as completely innocent in this whole deal? Were you not able to discern that things might be going too far? Seriously, if you are so confident now in disclosing that you were the reason for his first relapse.....that your relationship with him had gotten so out of control that he turned back to drugs.....how can you feel that you have no responsibility in that? Are you not also a married person? Do you not know how to set boundaries in your relationships with other men? That's what Romeos' problem is, right? So how does your behavior play in to this scenario?
I'm a friend of Romeo's. We've spoken several times over the phone and exchanged emails, even photos of ourselves and our families. Granted I'm a little bit older than he is, but I'm a young-looking, size 2, reasonably attractive woman. I managed to keep our friendship appropriate....completely appropriate. As I mentioned in an earlier post...It was obvious to me in the first few conversations that I had with him that he was a wounded soul.....a man with fairly serious problems setting boundaries in his relationships, especially with women. I didn't see him as predatory at all. I saw him as a man who needed help with some deep issues with which he had suffered forever. I certainly made sure to not let our friendship cross any boundaries or get too personal. People with issues like that have a very difficult time with setting those boundaries on their own. So how healthy or helpful is someone who will play into that? You can call it manipulation if you want....but we can only be manipulated to the point that we allow ourselves to be.
I'm just stunned. If anything bad does happen to Romeo, there will be a few of you who will have a hard time sleeping for a while and I won't be one of them! I better stop for now. But I have more to say. I'll save it. Unbelievable!


I'm going to try to answer this in a general way. First, this is an anonymous forum. It is not at all the same thing as a workplace.

Second, am I going to portray myself as completely innocent? You mean with his relapse? You mean with my relationship/friendship with him? Not sure what you mean by that. I have nothing to hide with regards to my relationship with Romeo. I never did or said anything indecent or let it get to an indecent level. Zero, zip, zilch. Yes, I am married, and yes I know how to set boundaries very well. I don't think my behavior played into it, but if it did, then I need him to explain how and I am willing to listen, because (for the record) I never believe I'm perfect. What I know for a fact played into it was me setting boundaries that were difficult for him. So, then he said he needed to not be friends with me to protect his sobriety, and I respected that. Then, I read about his relapse on the forum and assumed that the girl at work was the cause. It was not until later that he let me know I was the girl at work.

If something happens to Romeo, it will not be my fault, which is what you are insinuating. I'd really be careful about saying such a thing too. Do you want him to feel like "yeah, she did this and that caused my relapse. It's not my fault."? You are suggesting that my post may lead to a relapse and him perhaps dying, correct? Well, he has already been relapsing. It would be convenient to blame me and justify a relapse, but I won't take that blame for something that has been happening anyway. Sorry. That is just not fair.

As far as disclosing being the epitome of betrayal, I see it differently. I been holding my tongue and watching him pretend he's far more okay than he is when he posts on the forum and I've watched that help him keep feeling okay with how his recovery is going. How is it not betraying him to know that and not call him out on it on the forum, when calling him out on it privately has not done anything? There is nothing left for me to do. I did not call his work, his wife. I did not post copies of emails or messages or include any specific details. Actually, I do feel like I've been playing into it by playing along with the whole thing. So, yes, I do have some culpability in it.

You can question my motives all you want, but I know that I'm scared to death for Romeo and don't know what else to do to help him, other than to try and stop the games. You can say I'm not his real friend or that I'm to blame or whatever else you'd like to say. You have the right to your opinion. For the record, though, I believe you are completely and entirely wrong. And the right thing to do is certainly not always the most popular.

laddertipper

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First you take a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes you. ~F. Scott Fitzgerald


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 7:20 pm 
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Oh man this is just getting straight up WEIRD. You guys actually talk to each other on the phone and exchange pics and then go and put somebody on blast? Man I guess Im missing out on a lot these forums have to offer LOL. Apparently Suboxforum has become the new EHarmony for addicts.. I don't know if I am the only one but that sounds a bit crazy to me.

Marie.. I think I am going to stay out of this craziness and watch from a distance from here on out. All I have to say is I am sorry for your losses. Its not worth arguing over as we could go back and forth and this thread has already gotten a bit off track.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 7:51 pm 
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Wow! I am not even sure what to say. Ladder I believe whole heartedly that you care for Romeo and posted because you felt it was what you needed to do. However with all due respect I feel it was the wrong decision. I fear for him as you do and know the truth as you have written it but now what? Exposing personal conversations to a bunch of strangers on the internet is going to some how make him realize that he needs to do more? In my view probably the only thing this has accomplished is to take away the one place he could go and felt he had people who understand his struggle.

This is a support forum not a you have to tell the whole truth so help you god forum. I know he has not posted every detail and truth but that does not make him a liar. I do not post every problem or mistake I have made. Nor do I post every detail of my life. I think Romeo has been quite open about his drug use and humble, sure he hasn't posted every detail but isn't that up to him? I do not see how exposing things he told you in confidence will help him one bit. If he is truly as close to the edge as you think he is, I would think kicking him while he's down is only going to add to his problems.

I totally supported your 1st post, but I have to say the 2nd post likely succeeded in nothing but taking the forum away from him. Privately telling him I also support but to post all of this for everyone to see was a very wrong move in my book.

As I said when I started I believe you care and believe you struggled with your decision to do this, I just wish you had decided the other way. What is done can not be undone so now we just have to wait and see what happens. I hope your right and this will spark something in him but I think it's more likely you've just put out his fire.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:15 pm 
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Where out thou Oh Romeo............so it turns out he has not been truthful with us. He never shared a picture with me.....My point to Romeo if your reading this or not is that you just have to get honest with us so we know how to help you. Don't go off on Ladder for doing what she only knows is the best thing for Romeo. If you re-read this entire thread you will see he has not been honest for awhile.

We are all savvy addicts on here and some off can see right through our own BS. SMF don't come on here and protect Romeo if you have the relationship you say you do take your size 2 and call him up and help him and stop living in the past about not being a moderator anymore. This is not the workplace. I do not know Romeo.........I don't know anything except what he writes and I can read right through it..........I am an addict. With all the women on here in defense of this guy when did he have time to do any type of recovery...........it's always poor Romeo. I also think that if Ladder did not set boundaries with Romeo that it would have been more of a problem. Once again we are assuming what was there instead of taking her word for it.

I will sleep OK tonight because I was honest ............and forthright and didn't hand hold Romeo I gave him the truth. I don't want him to die and his daughter to find him. He has learned nothing. And no offense SMF but where in the world did someone say you could have 7 relapses.......what!!! Seriously did you read that in a book? And Romeo i only average because it was 4 times. Where is he??? All you girls that have been talking to him and sharing pics and recipes and what not call him up and tell us how he is doing or tell him to make an appearance so we can all move on..........

Jim


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:33 pm 
I'll try to clarify some things I said, Laddertipper....Do I think you hold any responsibility for Romeo's relapse? No. That was entirely his choice....his poor choice of coping with pain. What I do believe you hold some responsibility for is with the fact that you let your personal relationship with him even get to the place in which he could become so deeply wounded by it. You said it yourself in one of your last posts...."hundreds and hundreds of emails, hundreds of texts and phone calls and hours and hours of conversations." And you don't see that as a problem with boundaries? I can't imagine spending that much time communicating privately with a man who was not my husband, or perhaps my father, brother or maybe a male friend I'd known all my life. I just can't imagine that one would get that close to someone they met on an internet addiction recovery forum and not feel like they were asking for trouble. With that much communication you would have to have known at least fairly early on that Romeo had some issues. You surely sensed long before you drew the line in the sand (so to speak) that caused him such upset that he felt he had to end the friendship, and go into such a tailspin as to lead to a relapse. Maybe you didn't, but I do question that.
If something bad were to happen to him, I don't believe I said that you would be responsible for it. I believe I said you and some others might have a little trouble sleeping at night.....Not because you caused it, but because you might then question the wisdom of how you've chosen to attempt to get him "straightened out." That's all I meant. We are all responsible for our own choices.....Period.
I also must agree with what BreezyAnn said about the forum regarding it not being a place that is "I swear to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God." I have a pretty good suspicion that if we all took a polygraph exam about whether we EVER embelished anything, sugarcoated the truth, or outright lied about something here....the vast majority would come out as "deceptive" in their answers if they said, "Yes...I've always been 100% honest about everything I've ever posted on this forum."
I completely believe that your motive is good, but I just can't agree with your method this time.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:54 pm 
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Talk about a messed up topic. All this personal stuff should be spoken in a personal setting, truth or not. To have this for all to read is horrifying. If it was me and not Romeo I'm not sure I could ever hold my head up here again.

I know everyone's intention is to help him, but he's been wounded far too deep.

Not even 2¢ worth.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:19 pm 
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I have messaged Romeo to see what he wants to do about this thread.

At this time, I am deeply uncomfortable with the turn this thread has taken. While I think that confronting our friends or calling them on their b.s. can work or be of some help at times...I'm not sure this is the best medium for it.

Much of the nuance of communication gets lost on the internet. It's too easy to misinterpret what someone has written, there's no body language or eye contact or tone of voice to round out the fullness of meaning. There's also none of the instant-feedback that you get in face-to-face communication, where you can see immediately if you have crossed a line and hurt someone - just too much of the give-and-take of an actual conversation is lost. And those things are profoundly important when you're having this kind of conversation with someone you care about and are scared and worried for. The absence of all of these things just makes it too easy to unintentionally hurt someone, and when that someone is in a vulnerable place it makes it that much more troubling.


I think it would be best for everyone to take a step back from this thread for now, so I am locking it until I hear from Romeo. You can PM me if you have any questions.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:53 pm 
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laddertipper wrote:
You need to have one place you can be honest, or you just cannot be free.


That's very true. It seems that you were that place for Romeo, or at least a lot closer to that place than most here. I don't think you did the wrong thing. People may overlook the compassion because it wasn't directed to Romeo, but to the wider forum.

Laddertipper, if he perceives anything as a green light to relapse, that isn't him manipulating the people here. It's him manipulating himself. The thing about these forums, is that we can only work with what we know, and do our best.

I don't feel betrayed at all by any of this. Romeo, if it's these are the behaviours that bring you undone... don't go back on Suboxone. Get your ass to rehab. The harder the rehab, the better. Suboxone subdues the need to partake in these behaviours, and they can often come back post-taper. Rehab and lots of hard work can actually help you change yourself.

There have been heaps of time in my addiction when I haven't been comfortable revealing the "full story". Eventually I would come around. Laddertipper's right about the one place. For me, that is here. I can reveal more to you guys than anyone, probably because of how disconnected it is from my wider life. I like the fact I'm half way across the world. Maybe Romeo you've gotten too involved with some people here, thus making it harder to reveal truths.

I've also known for some time that you confide more in the women of this forum. If women are a path to self-destruction for you, it's not something to be ashamed of. Each and every one of us have our own defects that can unthread our recoveries. People using the opposite sex to fill that emptiness is really quite common.

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Apparently Suboxforum has become the new EHarmony for addicts.. I don't know if I am the only one but that sounds a bit crazy to me.


:lol: Very true. There's a whole hidden layer of codependency going on. This place is resembling NA more and more each day.


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