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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:06 am 
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I believe this has gone completely SOUTH. That is bullshit all this assuming, telling Romeo he is chasing women. I mean damn you don't think that a grown man knows he fucked up. You think we have to keep "bitch slappin" him. I mean really enough is enough. I will never come here for support if I slip.relapse or just fuck up. This is just terrible. I think Lattertipper said what needed to be said then everyone else jumps in and thinks it's ok to go on and on with the shit.

I encouraged Romeo because that is what I felt and I will always have encourging words here for anyone that needs it. I believe that is what I'm here for. I would think that Romeo knows all about this shit. he has been around long enough to realize WHAT COULD HAPPEN don't we all. I dont think anyone gave Romeo a PASS.

Mel :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:32 pm 
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i like this thread romeo" it's helping me a little too'.tear- brought up a very good issue! i have less the people pleasing problem now'. and it was hard to quit that shit. thinking of it in the past 'i remember how low down i would think about my self. i got MAD about it and it took some time to stop. people did not like my change , but i had to do it. i finally nip'd it in the bu- and people see me different now.
i think this problem is caused on how some children are brought up? i may do it still to day" but in a less self destructive way. and not that it would harm any one . romeo" i think you have a lot of HUMOR :lol: and we need to be very care full about it getting in the way of our problems? and don't let the girl's get in your way either? :lol:
please keep up on the good work here on the forum " and thanks every one for your help.


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 Post subject: Couple of final comments
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:43 pm 
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Wow..........somebody is actually getting defensive.......why? Look this Relapse in Progress thread as been going strong since March..........March.

All I did was called BS on Romeo and I am sick of the coddling. Yes we all make mistakes and so many people have spent a lot of time investing in Romeo but for Romeo to get better he has to get honest with himself, his family and this forum. If we screw up tell the real story not just what we want to hear. I certainly would not call what I am doing as "wildly accusations"...........Romeo knows the truth and I don't care really if that is the way he lives his life. We get sober, we start working on recovery and we get honest.

In AA the men stay with the men and the women stay with women. Seems to work better that way and less drama. Really your going to use because you loaned some money to a female in NA........I said I didn't care if you get mad at me........just get mad enough that you are tired of this and you finally do something about this. Now you can storm around and feel sorry for yourself and hopefully don't use but reread your thread Romeo.......so many people have shared what you can do.......and the dying thing is as real as Dr J says it is. It can happen and based on what you have said you have a lot of people around you that you would be letting down.

Tear- MODERATOR- first off where did I say that Romeo was a SEXUAL PREDATOR.........? I suggest you read all the way through before you start smearing me--- another member of this forum openly. Perhaps you should take your own advice and use PM instead of making false statements about me openly on the forum. I will await your PM with an apology.

Romeo you can have your thread back and I do wish you luck in the future.

Jim


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:42 pm 
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Reraise". i like what you have to say here. and it sounds in line" like things in AA NA i have been going there for year's.
what you say about AA NA men and women staying apart from each other" is the policy, but sure don't go that way.
i get more in to trouble in AA NA . what the hell is wrong with the bullshit about the falts sayings and behind closed door's.
they ramp on all to go to aa na and 1 out of 1000 make the full complete program for life!! other programs are doing much better. AA NA needs to find an other way to control this conning and baffuling des-? the book works. but the people need
to follow it. i have nothing against the BIG BOOK.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:29 pm 
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Sorry, Jim, but saying women in NA are being "preyed upon" by Romeo = Romeo is a sexual predator. That is the main thing that was so incendiary about your comments. Unfortunately, the well meaning, albeit harsh, message to get serious was lost in the anger incited by that comment.

People open up here and talk about some pretty personal stuff, stuff that may be at the very root of their addictive behavior. We leave ourselves pretty vulnerable when we do that - but at the same time there might be someone else reading who is thinking/feeling/doing the same thing we are. So getting this shit out helps not only the poster but the whole recovery community IMO. So let's not stomp the shit out of someone for putting themselves out there like that.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:11 am 
Wow....I can't even believe the turn this thread has taken! There's been way too much judgment flying around! Judgment of Romeo....presumptions of his motives for getting involved in NA, presumptions that because the man obviously has deep-seated maternal abandonment issues, therefore seeks attention, affection, and care from females which can and has gotten him into a bit of trouble, that makes him someone who is preying on women?! I'm no psychiatrist, but it's pretty obvious to me what the issue is. He's probably just seeking out people, perhaps especially women, to give him what his mother didn't and what his sister did, but died at an extremely critical age in Romeo's development in his attitudes and expectations of women. That stuff would shape nearly anyone's psyche! He's used drugs as a coping mechanism almost all of his late teen and adult life. That's what filled that "God-shaped hole" for him, or in his case that Mom-shaped hole. It probably allowed him to interact with people, be more social and get along in life when he believed that in and of himself he was not good enough to form healthy relationships. Again, I'm no shrink, but this seems pretty clear to me.
The other thing that comes to my mind is the old saying....."Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." Come on guys, we're all a bunch of sick people! And some are sicker than others! Some respected members here are as hypocritical as they can be. They come on here and tell us all the answers....just do this or do that and you'll be all better. I particularly love Helmuth's response....something to the effect of "just suck it up or man up or whatever...don't do drugs...it's that simple." Well, maybe in your world it's that simple. But all I've got to say is that your world must be a hell of a lot simpler than most of the rest of ours....certainly it must be simpler than mine.
I remember Dr. Junig himself saying that those of us with higher IQs, or a little more intelligence are the group that seem to have the hardest time with recovery. I firmly believe that. I don't think Romeo is a simple man, nor unintelligent, therefore this thing is difficult for him. As it is for a lot of us. He's not a child.....He doesn't deserve to be treated like an idiot and chastised and get a bunch of finger wagging from us. He's here for support and to be honest and to try to help others learn from his own mistakes. He certainly isn't here to get a rash of crap from people who feel they're entitled to pass judgment on him.
I don't believe at all that offering support and encouragement after a lapse, relapse or whatever the hell you want to call it, is placating or giving him a "pass" to go do it again. I was told in rehab that the average number of lapses/relapses of an opiate addict was 7 (seven) before the addict was able to achieve a year or more of complete sobriety. Romeo is well within that average. Now, all of you who are on therapeutic doses of bupe can pat yourselves on the back for having 6 months, hell, 6 years of sobriety with no relapses. But really? Is that fair? I think not. You're still loaded with a very powerful opiate....no wonder you don't relapse. All you've got to do is take your Sub every day and you're golden, right?
So what I have to say to those of you who have chosen to essentially crucify Romeo, or have even gone so far as to tell him he'll be next to die.......is "Let's talk about this after you've managed to get off Suboxone. Let's see how easy all this is when you're no longer loaded with bupe." Because until then....do you really have the right to pass judgment?
I said before and I'll say again....What about those who are on way more than enough Sub and are still on benzos or still smoking pot or drinking? Are you in a position to advise someone like Romeo on what's best for him?
I've been around this forum for a long time. I know how some of our members operate. I've been the butt of the joke myself. I lost my moderator status because another Moderator decided early on that she did NOT like me.....I believe in God, I'm a Christian and I pray, and she didn't want any of that kind of talk being "spouted" around on her forum, so she got rid of me. And it really hurt for a while. But now, after this far out, it doesn't bother me at all. I know what this person is and I know what I am....a quality person with a lot to offer in terms of education, support, empathy, and advice. But because this person decided I didn't 'belong'....I was publicly embarrassed by one day being a moderator and the next day not....with no real explanation, mind you. It took me a little while to see the blessing of it all. I don't even want to be in the same category of most of these moderators here. What a joke....as long as you agree and don't make any waves and for heaven's sake don't mention that perhaps God might be able to heal our brokeness, you'll enjoy your moderator status. Other than that...not so much!
As far as I'm concerned those of you who came down so hard on Romeo should be ashamed of yourselves. And some of you I consider friends. But seriously, you've crossed the line. All this hard-core, puffed-up, you-just-don't-get-it and what-the-hell-are-you-doing crap, and especially the "you're gonna die" crap....seriously unnecessary! If anything, I've known of a couple of people who have intentially overdosed because of feeling so hopeless after being raked over the coals like that. Now how therapeutic is that?
I know I've just stepped on bunches of toes and if I get banned for it, so be it. But if you all can get away with some of what's been said on this thread, I don't think I've crossed any line either.
Romeo knows darn well that I am concerned for him and that I take this stuff real seriously, but instead of telling him how wrong he is and how pathetic he is....I listen to him and I hear what's said and what isn't said and hear the pain in his voice when he's hurt and confused. I know that he is trying and I believe he will ultimately get it. If he doesn't, he will go into rehab. And I believe he's smart enough to know when or if that time comes. But good grief, he's had a few brief lapses. He hasn't gone off the deep end, disappeared for weeks and been found on the street with a needle full of heroin in his arm.
Another truth that I feel is worth mentioning is that all this condescending talk about how Romeo doesn't get it....Well maybe some of you don't get it. Have you ever thought about that? You're not sober on Suboxone. There are a whole lot of you who probably quite literally take Sub like any other opiate....dosing as needed, switching doses around, trying to get a buzz or some energy or whatever. You're just as addicted to it as you were to your former drug of choice...it's just that this is more legit....you're not stealing anymore, you're managing (maybe) to hold down a job and keep your family together and that's great. But your still loaded to the gills on an opiate. Harm reduction.....abslotuley and that is great and dandy. But in my opinion, you don't have the stuff to tell someone who is in abstinence-based recovery how to run their recovery.
I know I sounded harsh in a lot of what I said, but so have a lot of the others. I just felt the need to speak up, not just for Romeo, but for myself and so many others, who wanted off bupe....wanted our 'real' lives back, not our bupe saturated lives! Are there some who need bupe forever? Of course and that's just peachy. But for the rest of us, it simply is not an option that we are comfortable living. I'm tired of being dependent on a damn substance and I'm tired of being concerned about a coming time when we may not be able to get this drug any more and I'm concerned about these high doses of this very potent drug are doing to my body and my mind long-term. That's why I'm off and I don't plan to go back. It's not been easy. It's been an off and on thing to get here. But as of now, I've had more days bupe free this past month than I've had days with doses of bupe. I'm not great, but I'm feeling 'real' again. I guess it just depends on the addict. But me, personally, I know I've got what it takes to do life without opiates and that's what I'm going to do. The rest of you, I hope for the best for you. We all have to "pick our poison" so to speak.
Just please, don't berate those of us who struggle with our true sobriety by having a brief slip/lapse/relapse. It's very normal and it doesnt mean we're going to die.Just offer constructive criticism and support and if you can't do that, maybe it's best to let that thread go without saying anything, becuase God forbid, you could hit someone at a really low point and in their already fragile state, bring on a hopelessness to that is too much to bear. Just take it easy.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:57 am 
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I agree with a lot of what people have been saying - reraise, hatmaker, lillyval, setmefree. There's a lot of quality advice going on now.

The sad thing is, a lot of it is ending up lost because we (me included) have been letting our opinions get in the way of helping someone in need. I agree that Romeo has gotten quite vulnerable by opening up as he has. The last thing we want is Romeo fearing opening up because of all the drama that can follow.

Setmefree. While I sat here nodding to you post for a while... it started to get personal. Telling people they're not sober while they're on Suboxone is just as damaging as the opinions you're objecting to. If someone vulnerable on Suboxone were to believe that ... it can make relapse a lot easier to justify.

Let's rein all this stuff back in, and get back to the main topic, that is.. helping Romeo to maintain a healthy recovery. Keep it respectful, free of rudeness, abuse & swearing ... and definitely free of imposing our opinions on others.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:13 am 
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Wow you really hit the nail on the head SMF. I too find it funny that all these responses to Romeo are coming from people who are still on Suboxone. It is easy to sit on your high horse and preach what exactly it is that Romeo should/shouldn't be doing while your opiate receptors and still saturated. I would love to see all of you attempt get off suboxone successfully let alone come back in 15 months or however long Romeo has been off and let us know how it went.

As far as I am concerned Romeo you have done a helluva job and accomplished a lot. 4 relapses in 15 months? Thats not too bad if you ask me. Getting off suboxone in itself is a huge feat. I don't agree with coddling either, but focus on the positive. You are ALL NATURAL. Yeah you are still struggling a bit, but fuck get back on the wagon and keep putting in the work. Every good addict knows his limits. Death is always a possibility, you re not slamming dope as far as I know, so the risk of that is much less significant. I am not condoning using, just saying the scare tactics are slightly overboard here. Yes you had a scare with the Opana, but you sure as hell learned that lesson. Just keep fighting the good fight man and be careful!


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:50 am 
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i'm not sure. but did i say anything wrong here? weather it was about romeo or any one ? i think the problem stereo type- i second was not to do with romeo or any one really? but just because its hard to understand me . maybe were all in the same fucking boat , and no one here is trying to dump any one off. i'm afraid that we all are going to end up in romeo's place some day? because we all have the same fucking problem????????? so i'm not doing to well ? i hope that don't mean i need to shut up and sit down. who the fuck on this forum really knows when were all going to get completely well? keep your head up high
in your spirit romeo.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:17 am 
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Johnboy. You said nothing wrong.

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i'm afraid that we all are going to end up in romeo's place some day?


Imagine if we all ended up at party @ Romeo's place. :lol:

***must..refrain..from..inappropriate..funny..comment***


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:15 pm 
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I don't know the correct way to handle this situation. Romeo is my friend and I'll always see him as such. I also don't want to watch him self destruct. I can't stand the feeling that something bad is likely to happen and not saying anything to try to stop it. So, the post that I put up above and this one come from feeling desperate to help Romeo before it goes too far. Supposedly, he has left the building and won't even read this, but maybe he will. We probably won't be speaking anymore because I will always ask the hard questions, and he has the right to not want to hear it. However, he's been a very good friend to me and a ginormous part of me getting through Sub tapering, and I'll be eternally thankful. And he asked me the hard questions, which I appreciate.

I've been 'watching' Romeo relapse for about a year now. I'm scared for many reasons. For one, Romeo believes there have been four relapses. He does not remember any different, and I know because I recently asked him. He wrote about four on this forum, and it has become real to him. There have not been only four. It began with cough medicine and graduated to Lortab and then to Opana. This is following a trajectory that could have terrible consequences. What comes next? Someone tell me.

Last week, I listened to a rundown of how he'd be managing his Opana use, i.e. not more than so many days in a row and only this often, etc. That does not equal having learned a lesson from Opana, at least in my book. I got off the phone and just said 'goodbye' in my heart, because of how intoxicated he was, how nobody in his life draws boundaries for him, how he doesn't lose anything so he minimizes it. When you can be in that state and your family kinda looks the other way, you are in trouble.

I won't look the other way, because I believe it is morally wrong to do so. That is not being a friend. I'm being a better friend by not being willing to be a friend at all IMO. Romeo is very good at walking a fine line, where he can keep his job, his finances in order, his family, his status, etc. His concern is on what people know/think, not what is really happening. Maybe you guys disagree with me, but I do believe that lies and secrets are what kill an addict. It's easy for lies to become real if other people buy into them. So, he is the guy who will have the great job and great life, but then he'll be dead and everyone will be shocked and saying "Oh my, I never knew...!" This is the sort of alcoholic I was. It's very dangerous because you are good at never hitting your bottom until it is too late. I'm so lucky my family drew the line with me and brought my bottom up. Otherwise, I would have kept going, my liver function probably would have kept getting worse, I probably would have crashed my car and killed someone else or myself or both. I'd probably be dead now. I do believe that. I'm thankful for those pains in my ass that helped me get serious and scared. I'm being a pain in Romeo's ass to try to help him and to bring it home for him.

Obviously, women are an issue for Romeo. The first relapse story was not about a woman at work. That was about me. The attention is like a drug, and I do think it is the equivalent of switching addictions. It's a big deal, because once again, it's all about concealing it and not facing the underlying issues. It has gone way too far, not with me, but with other women. It matters because that creates more crap for Romeo to carry around and fuss over. It requires more smoke and mirrors. It leads to more and more lying. Also, it has escalated, just like the drug use. Someone has to cry 'foul' on this, because it could result in huge losses that I'm pretty sure he could not handle.

I was hoping Romeo would come on here and pull his own covers, so to speak, and just be totally honest. You need to have one place you can be honest, or you just cannot be free. He doesn't have that anywhere, and now he won't be being honest with me. How do you guys think that will work for him? How do you think that will work for his family? I evidently see this whole thing as far more serious than some other people on here. When an addict says they don't believe they could be the next one to die, even though they have just relapsed on Opana and have not had any further treatment, that is a bad sign.

Some of you guys may think it's crappy of me to post this, but I've been watching how other people's reactions on here affect how Romeo sees his own situation. If he gets what he sees as a green light on here, he'll believe all is well. This is true whether or not what he posts on here is completely true, and the reactions he expects influence what version he decides to post on here. The reaction he gets from other members dictates what he decides to tell them in messages. I do think many of us addicts are like this. It's not until we realize that lying is truly going to do us in that we decide to let it all hang out and get some accurate feedback that we can actually use. Right now, anything that will upset the image is out, be it total honesty on here or in meetings, going to meetings where someone may spot him and know he's got a problem, going to rehab.....all those things are out. If someone truly believes that they have a deadly disease and that it may kill them, do they take so many options off the table?

Romeo is one of the kindest people I've ever known, and that is the truth. He has a million reasons to not use. He's highly intelligent, goofy, compassionate, thoughtful. All those things are genuine qualities. Then, he's also exceptionally good at manipulating and he is a chameleon. This is how he's been having his cake and eating it too for his whole adult life. I really don't know of a more dangerous set of circumstances than to be an addict who is so good at manipulating, who has a family that buys into your explanations and won't hold you responsible, who then buys into the reflection of those manipulations, and who would rather quit breathing than embarrass themselves or anger someone. This situation can easily spin out of control and explode, because there is are no brakes. I'm not whatsoever labeling Romeo as a 'bad' person, because he certainly is not. That's really the whole point. If I didn't see so much in him, this would not be so tragic. He's screwing himself over and hurting himself and his own chances at finding that happy, sober life. That is the bottom line. He is the one who will pay the price for it.

Please don't accuse me of being on a high horse. I'm not. I drank for many years and did a million stupid things. I started drinking when I was 11 or 12 and stayed pretty intoxicated until my late 20's. I'm just as guilty of being an asshole as the rest of you. I should be dead or in jail, but I won the lottery in that sense. It makes me shiver to think of how many times I drove around wasted, even with my kids in the car, and sometimes couldn't remember how I'd gotten here or there. I'm not puffed-up and don't think I'm better than anyone else because I'm not on Sub anymore. This is not finger-wagging or passing judgment. This is saying to Romeo that he will not be able to continue this indefinitely. This is a last ditch effort to help someone by ruining their high and holding up a mirror.

I do take issue, SMF, with your current stance on Sub treatment. I've questioned the validity of it myself many times, but watching this play out has been a wake up call. Obviously, the best scenario is to be off opiates and Sub and living an entirely drug free life. However, what if this is not working? I think it's dangerous to be vilifying Sub as an option, because the most important thing is to save someone's life. I'm not saying Romeo should go back on Sub, but I am saying that he should have that option and shouldn't feel like it makes him a failure if that is what he needs to do to live. I'd support anything he decides to do to save his own life.

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:28 pm 
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Ladder - I commend you for having the courage to say what is in your heart. I don't think you're on a high horse or are saying anything inappropriate. It's obvious that you care deeply for your friend, Romeo and that's where this is coming from - your affection for him. I hope Romeo hears your words and takes heed. I think you said what he needs to hear.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:12 pm 
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Ladder What a great friend you are. I have one friend like you and that is my dad. He loves me enough to be honest with me.Weather I want to hear it are not. We all need a friend like you.
Like I said before honesty takes courage and strenth.
Mel :wink:

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:14 pm 
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I have had a busy couple days and just now got up to date on this thread. I am shocked at the anger and insults being hurled at each other here. Romeo came here for help and advice. When you lay your problems out there on a public board (which I commend by the way Romeo) you are going to get different responses, whether it be understanding, harshness, comfort, disapointment, etc. Also most likely everyone is going to have a different view of what you need to help correct the problem you are seeking advice for.

The last 2 pages of this thread has turned into telling other members that their advice is wrong or some people have more of a right to post advice than others. How is any of this bickering helping Romeo? Every member has the right to post advice as they see fit. It is up to Romeo what he chooses to take and chooses to ignore. Most posts aren't even directed at Romeo, they are directed to other members. If you feel the need to tell other's why you are smarter or how you've been wronged, then start a "I know more than you thread" and anyone who feels the need to continue this crap can do so in their own thread. Why is it adults can not have different points of view without respected that difference?

Romeo,
First I want to apologize for the turn your thread has taken and for not posting sooner. I did not see all this until just now, I will give you a call in a bit. I just wanted to post in your thread to show you some support and to try to address the mess this thread has become. Talk to you soon!


Last edited by Breezy_Ann on Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:05 pm 
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romeo'. every one loves you here. please don't fuck up'. or i'm going to have to kick your arse :lol: thanks laddertipper i was not aware that all of this was happening to romeo? evey fucking time i no some one going to meatings, there having
a greater problem. my very close friend tim came to my studio and we jam'd together. it was great and were going
to continue. tim went to AA NA for years . he stoped going about 15 years ago, but he has been sober now for 26 years.
LADDERTRIPPER/ TEAR/ breezyann/ please go to the phone and leave romeo messag- if you have to
please bug the hell out of his phone!


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:24 pm 
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Now we are talking about Romeo in the third person as if he weren't even here, or worse, like he is a child? Ladder, I know you are good person and your comments are coming from a place of love and genuine concern - but publicly posting personal information that was entrusted to you in a PM or a private phone call? And not only about drug use but about personal relationships? I'm literally sick to my stomach right now. This thread has well over 12,000 views. It's unfathomable. I can think back to some of the very personal issues I have shared with people in PM's and I can't imagine someone making it public. I'm also under the impression that several people here know Romeo's real identity, and by extension, that of his wife...

I'll stop now but I hope a moderator sees fit to remove that post. Please copy it into a PM and send it to him directly if you feel that strongly about it. Up until today I thought this forum was a caring, supportive anonymous support group where it was safe to talk about private issues dealing with our addictions. The posts and PM's I've read in the last 24 hours have completely disillusioned me.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:40 pm 
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Lillyval wrote:
Now we are talking about Romeo in the third person as if he weren't even here, or worse, like he is a child? Ladder, I know you are good person and your comments are coming from a place of love and genuine concern - but publicly posting personal information that was entrusted to you in a PM or a private phone call? And not only about drug use but about personal relationships? I'm literally sick to my stomach right now. This thread has well over 12,000 views. It's unfathomable. I can think back to some of the very personal issues I have shared with people in PM's and I can't imagine someone making it public. I'm also under the impression that several people here know Romeo's real identity, and by extension, that of his wife...

I'll stop now but I hope a moderator sees fit to remove that post. Please copy it into a PM and send it to him directly if you feel that strongly about it. Up until today I thought this forum was a caring, supportive anonymous support group where it was safe to talk about private issues dealing with our addictions. The posts and PM's I've read in the last 24 hours have completely disillusioned me.



There are some good, valid points that you bring up, Lilly. FWIW, I certainly would not want my personal issues paraded
about on this forum for everyone else's seeming entertainment.

-ex-


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:01 pm 
I'm with you Lillyval! I'm appalled at how Romeo's confidence has been broken so blatantly! I'm sorry, Laddertipper, I think you're probably a pretty great person, but if you think that what you posted is going to help your "friend" Romeo, you couldn't be more wrong, in my opinion. I am so very serious right now! I know what it feels like to have yourself "busted" publicly (I'm not talking about this board at all)....I'm talking about when my addiction was discovered in my workplace. The thoughts of everyone I worked with, had relationships with, who I respected and who respected me in return, knowing what I had done....that I was a friggin drug addict....came damn close to killing me! Literally! It was bad enough that I was having to face how sick I was....that I was cut off from drugs cold-turkey....facing a near certain loss of a 20 year career....facing disclosing all of this to my family....But add to that, the fact that I knew that all these people were talking about me, speculating about me, knowing what I had done, talking crap about me, probably joking about me, etc. nearly drove me to want to end it all! I had NEVER in my life suffered from depression, anxiety, or any mental disorder at all, much less even considered the desperate measure of ending my own life. But the public way that my 'secret' came out was just about more than I could bear. Only by the grace of God and the knowledge that His forgiveness was there for me and that because of my beliefs I had a shot at redemption...did I survive that experience!
To disclose Romeo's private conversations and personal relationship with you is the epitome of betrayal! It's about as far away from "love" as you can get! Furthermore, relationships are a two-way street. Are you going to portray yourself as completely innocent in this whole deal? Were you not able to discern that things might be going too far? Seriously, if you are so confident now in disclosing that you were the reason for his first relapse.....that your relationship with him had gotten so out of control that he turned back to drugs.....how can you feel that you have no responsibility in that? Are you not also a married person? Do you not know how to set boundaries in your relationships with other men? That's what Romeos' problem is, right? So how does your behavior play in to this scenario?
I'm a friend of Romeo's. We've spoken several times over the phone and exchanged emails, even photos of ourselves and our families. Granted I'm a little bit older than he is, but I'm a young-looking, size 2, reasonably attractive woman. I managed to keep our friendship appropriate....completely appropriate. As I mentioned in an earlier post...It was obvious to me in the first few conversations that I had with him that he was a wounded soul.....a man with fairly serious problems setting boundaries in his relationships, especially with women. I didn't see him as predatory at all. I saw him as a man who needed help with some deep issues with which he had suffered forever. I certainly made sure to not let our friendship cross any boundaries or get too personal. People with issues like that have a very difficult time with setting those boundaries on their own. So how healthy or helpful is someone who will play into that? You can call it manipulation if you want....but we can only be manipulated to the point that we allow ourselves to be.
I'm just stunned. If anything bad does happen to Romeo, there will be a few of you who will have a hard time sleeping for a while and I won't be one of them! I better stop for now. But I have more to say. I'll save it. Unbelievable!


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 Post subject: UMM, REALLY??
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:19 pm 
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6 Months or More
6 Months or More
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Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:43 am
Posts: 190
Rmac, you said-

"Every good addict knows his limits."

Do you really believe that EVERY addict whom OD's, means to kill themselves?


You also stated-

"Death is always a possibility, you re not slamming dope as far as I know, so the risk of that is much less significant."

I've lost over ten people in the last yr 1/2 (some good friends, a couple family members, and several were associates).......NONE of those people died from shooting up. Just because you're not "slamming dope", dosen't mean you're safe from overdosing.


You then went on to say-

"I am not condoning using, just saying the scare tactics are slightly overboard here. Yes you had a scare with the Opana, but you sure as hell learned that lesson."


Learned his lesson?!? Unless Im forgetting something, or didn't read Romeo's post correctly......this last lapse was on Opana too!
How much of a lesson did he really learn? The third lapse (according to Romeo) nearly killed him. And, just a couple months later he uses the exact same drug.

I don't understand your thought process Rmac. I really don't.



I love Romeo. He is an amazing person, and has helped and supported so many people on this forum.
I truly hope that some of what was posted in this thread sinks in.
No, relapse dosen't always=death. But, addiction IS a progressive, fatal disease. And, left untreated......it CAN kill you.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:19 pm 
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Lillyval wrote:
Now we are talking about Romeo in the third person as if he weren't even here, or worse, like he is a child? Ladder, I know you are good person and your comments are coming from a place of love and genuine concern - but publicly posting personal information that was entrusted to you in a PM or a private phone call? And not only about drug use but about personal relationships? I'm literally sick to my stomach right now. This thread has well over 12,000 views. It's unfathomable. I can think back to some of the very personal issues I have shared with people in PM's and I can't imagine someone making it public. I'm also under the impression that several people here know Romeo's real identity, and by extension, that of his wife...

I'll stop now but I hope a moderator sees fit to remove that post. Please copy it into a PM and send it to him directly if you feel that strongly about it. Up until today I thought this forum was a caring, supportive anonymous support group where it was safe to talk about private issues dealing with our addictions. The posts and PM's I've read in the last 24 hours have completely disillusioned me.


I respect your opinion and can see exactly why you would say that.

Still, I stand by what I said and I hope Romeo will take it to heart (if he does read it) and not disregard it because he thinks I shouldn't have posted it. I'm speaking in the third person because I am replying to you, Lilly, and because I am under the impression that Romeo is not currently participating on this forum. As far as treating him like a child, well, he is absolutely not a child. Can he not speak for himself? I'm willing to take whatever criticism comes my way, even from people who I like and respect, because I do believe it was the right thing to do. I agonized about it for a long time beforehand. I did not give out any identifying information whatsoever. The statements I made were very general. I did not recount the details or frequency of relapses or include any names of anyone else or descriptions of anything that happened. Nothing. I was very careful about that. If I did include more details, then you would probably feel as strongly about it as I do, but I'm not willing to do that. You say you think I'm a good person, so then you must suspect that if it was not that serious, I would not have posted about it.

This was not an easy decision to make, by any means, and I know it means I've lost Romeo as a friend and perhaps the respect of many of us guys on here, but I'm 100% willing to pay that price. I have tried every other way I can think of to help Romeo over the past year. That has meant hundreds and hundreds of emails, hundreds of phone calls and texts, and hours and hours of conversations. Yes, I have emailed all this to him. I've also said all this to him. If that worked, I would have never posted any of this. However, it has not been working. I've been carrying around what he tells me. Then, I read on the forum what he says and how everyone responds and how that affects him. That has been making me literally sick to my stomach for a very long time, but I have kept my mouth shut and watched it continue. It's become a vicious cycle that feeds into his addiction and is all part of the game that is keeping this person sick and in the dark as to the severity of his own disease. I don't believe in 'outing' people. At some point, though, you feel like nothing else has worked and you are willing to do something you would never normally do, because you are talking about someone's life. I do believe his life is hanging in the balance, and that is a good enough reason for me. So, I'm sorry, but I refuse to carry this around with me and continue to read replies about how he's doing a pretty good job, when he is struggling so badly and giving it a quick face lift to make it seem less serious. I refuse to carry it around, because I may later read that he did overdose, and then I would always have to wonder if I turned a blind eye and didn't make him uncomfortable enough in his addiction that he would want to truly put his whole self into getting into recovery.

laddertipper

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First you take a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes you. ~F. Scott Fitzgerald


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