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 Post subject: Receptor activity
PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:45 pm 
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Hi all....couldn't find out any information re this issue through search engines so I thought I'd throw it out. My last post (also my first) spoke of my intent to try and minimize sub w/d with 10mg hydrocodone tabs three times daily and decreasing.

It was suggested that I might prolong w/d by simply substituting one opiate for another..

Let me toss out my thinking and I welcome you to shatter (or agree) with my reasoning, or rather, rationale for doing this.

Knowing sub w/d is protracted due to long half life and affinity for receptor sites, I'm hoping that using an intermittent opiate (hydro 5-10 mg) every 8 hours OR LESS, and this would still allow withdrawal to continue with periods of relief from low dose, particularly at night with sleep. Also understanding that stepping off the low hydro dose after 7-10 days would produce minimal w/d

Now what am I missing....? I know something? Am I going to prolong sub withdrawal? With the hydros compete for receptor sites and bounce residual subs?

I tend to complicate things....unlike all of you, I have a low tolerance for pain and m looking for a way to minimize (being facetious of course)

Appreciate this site being here. For the 10 minutes it took to type this, I didn't think about w/d symptoms! Ha!

ADDITION. Just wanted to share status. It's July 4th. Last dose was last Saturday so it's day six for me.


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 Post subject: Re: Receptor activity
PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 8:03 pm 
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IF you can lower your tolerance by using Hydro's carefully, then technically, your wd would be shorter. But that's a big IF with the Hydro's. Most who try that route crash and burn because they lose control of the Hydro's.

The trick here is lowering your tolerance. Tolerance is a huge part of wd. High tolerance = M'fer of wd. Low tolerance = weak wd (usually).

What you're attempting to do reminds me of the story of the scorpion and the frog. Both the scorpion and the frog wanted to cross the river. The frog could cross no problem, but the scorpion asked if he could ride on the frog's back. Naturally, the frog was very suspicious. The scorpion PROMISED not to sting him while crossing because if he did, they'd both die. So, the frog said "hop on" and off they went. Right in the middle of the crossing, the scorpion stung the frog. As the frog was dying, he asked, "why did you do that, now we're both going to die" to which the scorpion answered, "I'm a scorpion, it's what I do."

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 Post subject: Re: Receptor activity
PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 8:22 pm 
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I'd go with something like Kratom instead of hydros, if you're insistent on using another opiate to get through acute stages. Kratom technically isn't an opiate, but hits some of the opiate receptors, and carries some risk too, of just replacing one drug for another, but I think much less of a risk than hydro if one is able to use it judiciously, like just enough to take edge off before sleep.

You might want to try Neurontin/Gapapentin as a better alternative, if you can get some. Lots of anecdotal evidence of it helping with withdrawals, with some claims of it eliminating nearly all of the symptoms.


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 Post subject: Re: Receptor activity
PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 8:32 pm 
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Appreciate the suggestions. I did review Kratom months ago with first jump attempt but no access to that or the other suggested compounds.

Still wondering if my thinking is flawed with the belief that the subs will continue to leave receptors while hydros compete? In the end I'm just looking for some validation (or not!) of my rationalizing.

Thanks and happy 4th to you all!


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 Post subject: Re: Receptor activity
PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 8:46 pm 
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Richie1027 wrote:
Appreciate the suggestions. I did review Kratom months ago with first jump attempt but no access to that or the other suggested compounds.

Still wondering if my thinking is flawed with the belief that the subs will continue to leave receptors while hydros compete? In the end I'm just looking for some validation (or not!) of my rationalizing.

Thanks and happy 4th to you all!



I don't think you're rationalizing really, as in looking for an excuse to get buzzed on hydros, but more of a way to make WD easier, which is understandable, but like Romeo said, it can be risky business. Everyday is a struggle for me with the damn oxy I'm using for pain (bike accident after nearly a month clean from subs, resulting in broken arm, inside rotater cuff). What primarily keeps me in check is fear of knowing the new level of hell I'll go through if I up my prescribed dose (rather than trying to taper it as I'm doing now) and then run out, and have to go through withdrawals on top of the pain from my injury, which would be magnified by the WDs.

Happy 4th back @ya!


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 Post subject: Re: Receptor activity
PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:55 pm 
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Oh, I realize I didn't address your primary question. After a 3 days off of sub, the dose of hydros you're speculating on using might have some effect, but probably not pronounced. Only reason the oxy I am taking works at all for pain is I was off subs nearly a month, and even though it is not nearly as strong as buprenorphine, it is a full agonist.

Like Romeo, I strongly recommend against it. He told me I should throw my painkillers in the toilet as soon as I started them. The pain was really intolerable though, and I also am diagnosed with bipolar as a bonus. No sleep plus extreme pain might have set off a dysphoric hypermanic episode, as I was unable to even formulate a coherent thought, my only reality in the brain was pain, and was pacing around in circles biting on rolled up hand towels to keep from screaming until I got some relief. Still, I almost wish I had at least semi-listened to his advice at times, and tossed them after a week or so maybe, as physical habituation set in fast, even though I haven't gone into full blown reactivation of addiction behavior (gobbling them up beyond prescribed dose until I felt high, than either suffering terribly in the aftermath from increased tolerance WDs, and possibly seeking out drugs on street until I was able to refill them again). Only time I've felt buzzy from them was first few days after morning dose, and it was minor, I think I felt more buzzed sometimes after taking the daily 2mg dose of subs I was steady at for awhile , I'd nod out on sofa for a couple-few hours sometimes, with a half finished cup of coffee gone cold, on coffee table.


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 Post subject: Re: Receptor activity
PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:09 pm 
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Richie1027 wrote:
Still wondering if my thinking is flawed with the belief that the subs will continue to leave receptors while hydros compete? In the end I'm just looking for some validation (or not!) of my rationalizing.


The Sub's are most definitely leaving your receptors, but you're replacing the Sub's with Hydro's. An opiate for an opiate. The question is, is the stimulation at the receptor lower now than when you were on Sub's.

You could switch from Sub's to morphine or Sub's to oxycodone or Sub's to codeine.....you're still switching an opiate for an opiate. Again, tolerance (stimulation) is the key here.

If you went from 2mg of Sub to 12mg of codeine, you would be dropping your tolerance and that's what you're trying to do with the hydro's. I'm not sure of the Sub to hydro equivalency, but I'm guessing that the amount you're taking is a bit too much.

Technically speaking, you could most certainly go from Sub's to hydro's and keep lowering your tolerance and make your wd easier, but I don't know the exact doses you should be aiming for?

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