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 Post subject: Really Need Help
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:47 am 
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I'm a 3 year Subs patient, never relapsed, had surgery Tuesday, on percocet for pain, ready to go back into my "48 hour waiting period" before Subs again, but after about 4 hours the WD is so bad I cave and take another perc. Have to go back to work Monday! I know the answer is on her somewhere, but I'm so twitchy I can't even focus. I only take 4 mgs of Sub a day btw. Do I have to wait 48 hours? Thank You


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:08 am 
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No, you most certainly do not have to wait 48 hours!!

Your surgery was Tuesday. So you were on perk's part of the day Tues, all day Wed, all day Thur, then today?

I'm gonna say you could take a low dose of Suboxone (1mg or 2mg) when your wd gets bad. A low dose like that is usually not enough to precipitate wd.

Check out this link too, it's the COWS(Clinical Opiate Wd Scale), it will help you decide when you can take your Suboxone.

http://www.naabt.org/documents/cows_ind ... _sheet.pdf

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 Post subject: Thanks Romeo
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:55 am 
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I really appreciate your reply. I *Thought* all of the Perc had to be off of your receptors to prevent WD? Your plan sounds like a good one. Thanks for being there


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:27 pm 
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It's a common misconception that all of the previous opiate has to be off the receptor before induction. Most short acting opiates take about 3 days to clear out of the body, but no one waits 3 days to let a short acting opiate clear the body before taking Suboxone.

It has more to do with tolerance, but I always have a hard time explaining it. I'll give it a shot, though.

Think of your perk's as being able to get you 100% high, think of Suboxone as only being able to get you 10% high. If your tolerance or level of "highness" (sorry, can't think of a better word. lol) is at 50% and you take Suboxone, the Suboxone knocks the perk's off your receptors (which are providing you with a 50% high) and the Suboxone drags that "highness" level down to 10% instantly.....that's precipitated wd.

You've only been on perks for a short time, you haven't really had time to raise your tolerance or potential highness up too high, so you should be able to get back on Suboxone without having to wait too long.

OMGosh, I told you I wasn't good at explaining it. Did any of that make sense?

Anyway, we had a person on here a week or two ago, in about the same boat as you. They were also very worried about starting Suboxone again. They took a dose of Oxy at bedtime, tried to get through the night, took the Suboxone in the morning (about 8 hours later) and they had no problems.

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 Post subject: wow
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:44 pm 
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Romeo,
Actually I totally got your explanation, and I also understand "highness" lol. I'm going to do the exact same thing she did. I'm down to just taking bites of a Perc to stave off the crazyness. I am dumb as a bag of hair when it comes to this receptor business, but I totally got it. Will let you know how it turns out. Thanks for your help....so much....Beth


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:41 pm 
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Hey Beth,

Just checking in to see if you got back on Suboxone OK? Update us when you get a chance.

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 Post subject: saturday 10 pm
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:05 pm 
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Hey Romeo;
Trying to wait until tomorrow am; been chipping away at some Xanax & Ambien but still a rough ride. I'm not a fan of Xanax (or trust me I wouldn't have any from a year ago lol---they were my Mom's when she died)
Any problem with starting in the a.m. With Benzos in the system? Thanks for checking on my old twitchy ass
Beth


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:10 pm 
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Benzo's will not affect you when it comes to Suboxone induction. Neither will Ambien. Only opiates throw a wrench into Suboxone induction.

Good Luck tonight and I hope to hear from your old twitchy ass tomorrow!! LOL, you cracked me up when you referred to yourself as an old twitchy ass!!

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:02 am 
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Romes is a twitchy middle aged ass so it's good that he has an example of what to look forward too. ;)

Amy

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:34 pm 
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Dearest Romeo;
I hate when people don't follow-up with these stories, but you were such a tremendous comfort and source of fantastic suggestions that I want to summarize my experience as I'm sure you won't sleep until I do (all sarcasm intended).

What surprised me the most is that I didn't know there would be withdrawal involved any way you slice it. I currently am without a Doctor because I take temazepam at night due to a sleep apnea implant I have in my chest...(long story...not enough payoff to get into it). I was able to get away with it for 3 years based on knowing when my pee tests were coming off etc. My sleep Doc said it was okay, Subox Doc said No. ANYWAY I had managed to stockpile a few strips in case anything like that happened....skipping a day here and there etc. Plus my Subox Doc was an idiot anyway.....always trying to give me more than I needed. I was lucky enough to have a nurse friend in the field, who told me to stop 48 hours prior to surgery etc, and everything worked beautifully....was only on Percocet 3 days then settled in for 48 hours pre-Suboxone when all hell broke loose. I got my friend on the phone, (who was amazingly comforting but has never been an addict) and she said "Well you're in for some WD's no matter what." I had just assumed it would be like the 48 hours BEFORE the surgery...uncomfortable but manageable. Not so. At this point I was a week without Subs and now off the Percocet...took about 4 hours before I was in serious trouble and that's when I first posted. Took a bite of a Perc while waiting for a reply...and kept chipping. Kept trying to find someone to say "oh you only need to wait a few hours" and then your reply came in (Thank You GOD!) I had 3 Xanax, some Temazepam and seroquel but remembered the Doc 3 years ago saying "NO BENZOS!!!". Of course, on the internet, if you look long and hard enough you'll find the answer you're looking for (this was before your reply about the benzos) but at that point I didn't care what happened to me. Laid on the couch all night and logged about 6 thousand miles on my imaginary stationary bicycle (jesus the LEGS!)....and I also had a stomach full of stitches to add to the fun. Even the joyous news of Kim Kardashian and Kanye West having their baby didn't make me feel better (extra helping of sarcasm)

My poor precious husband is a 'normie', so he was just there for me, 100% wonderful & supportive and me feeling like a jackass, but as you know there's not a lot someone can do except BE there, which I highly recommend.

I THEN got the WORST idea of my LIFE and took 100 mgs of Seroquel. Kicked the WD's into complete overdrive. I had read it was helpful for some, but it made things 100 times worse for me. Found some Xanax, and it helped a bit.

Anyway I wanted to try and get one more day in to get those receptors cleaned out. Last night (Saturday night) was rough, then today about 10:30 am (36 hours w/no opiates) I took 1/4 of a strip. An hour later I was fine so I took another 1/4. Did that til the 8 mg strip was gone and I am back to myself, Praise Jesus.

I'm sure I will get some grief for taking Xanax and Temazepam, but they're not drugs I like, or I assure you I wouldn't have still had some a year after they were prescribed. (Hubby takes them when he flies cuz he's scared of flying).

My mistake was assuming the 48 hours without Subs PRE-surgery would be the same POST surgery, but I guess by that time it had been 7 days without subs and when the Percocet stopped coming my receptors panicked. If I ever have to do this again at least I know what I'm in for and will take a few Xanax. That's just me. Anybody else want to climb up on the cross, have at it.

I have also found that when my idiot Doctor started me at 32 mgs...at the time I had no insurance, and I figured out that going down to 4 mgs a day has the exact same effect on me. So for those without Insurance, I'd suggest trying half a strip---you may surprise yourself and then you've got twice as many and don't have to cash out your 401K every month. I think it's something about a ceiling effect--and I'm sure there are others who need more. Merely a suggestion, take it or leave it.

There's my story....Romeo...you saved me buddy. Thank You so much. If you would mind kicking the asses of anyone who wants to give me a rash for this or that, have at it. I've zero interest in getting into a war about this or that. This is only my opinion, experience and suggestions.

You're the best! (As are the many, many kind and smart people who are there on these boards every day providing guidance for so many....Priceless)

LV B

PS) Love the humor...SO important!


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:22 pm 
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Yes, I've been checking in on this thread throughout the day, hoping for the best. I'm glad you updated it!!! I'm a little pressed for time right now, so for now I'll say YIPPEE, I'm glad you got back on Suboxone without precipitating wd!!

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