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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:31 am 
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Howdy Folks. Need some quick and well needed insight. Huge amounts of appreciation for those that can shed some light. I am about to cold turkey about 4.5 months of Suboxone use. I got on Subs.. AGAIN to get off dope for the 3rd time. I was a good clean boy from January of last year til July then opened Pandora's box again. I have kicked Subs cold turkey before after 3 months use and in my opinion it was much worse than dope withdrawal. But I havnt cold turkied with the extent and length of my use this time. First 3 days are brutal. No sleep, can't look anyone in the eyes, weak, lethargic, mental anguish etc... I would drag myself to my Gym to steam,sauna and hot tub for at least an hour after the first couple days. I could only go at night as to not be around society in such form. Sweating it out cut time off substantially and helped with sleep. Anyways, I need some much appreciated and needed insight. This is the longest I've been on subs(4.5 months of sporadic use while doing dope here and there, I know, pathetic.) and is about to go cold turkey tomorrow. I would usually do 4-6 mg a day. Never ever a full 8 throughout this past stint. Just this past month I moved down to about 3mg-4mg a day all depending if I had a long work day then I would take a little more. The reason for my absurd intake format was because I was prescribed by my primary physician who didn't have full knowledge of Buprenorphine. He doesn't feel "comfortable" prescribing anymore which is fine anyways because I want and need to be done really bad. I have 3 mg left and the next Week off of work. Time to get down to business. Although I have done this dreadful process before, I need some insight on going cold turkey after 4.5 months with the dosage previously explained. I know I should have tapered lower but there's no time. .Should I try and get a clonidine patch if possible?(had it one time before, amazing for blood pressure and restless legs). I have access to a solid amount of Klonipin and also the wonderful liquid Immodium in my arsenal. I know chronic masturbation is pretty key as well. Any advice and support is huge. Im in a pretty rough spot mentally. Not suicidal or anything like that. I know how good it feels to get back to normal after going through this hell. It's much like having food poisoning. Have a terrible stomach ache that brings you to your knees and puts years in your yea that it's so painful. But once you take that last dump you feel comfortable and at ease.. Absurd analogy I know. You guys seem awesome and so insightful from the brief stories I read. No judgement. Just really nice getting support from someone fighting the same fight. When I am clean I am a healthy, confident individual who works out everyday. I have a gorgeous and amazing girlfriend who comes back from going abroad to Sevilla after being gone for 2.5 months and would love to be sober for that. It'd be an awesome surprise for her. She's unbelievably support-full and I'm stunned everyday that she has put up with my crap. Despite my usage I was a pretty functional addict. I've only had a few slip ups the past couple years after long time of issues. I have depression but without a doubt I am happy with managing natural, normal depression as opposed to this spun out synthetic dread. Subs make me lose all confidence. Music and movies don't sound or feel as emotional anymore. Songs don't get me amped up whilst driving or working out. Getting off work after a 16 hour shift has no fulfillment like it does when I'm clean. No excitement or sex drive whatsoever. I am literally an emotionless, extremely depressed zombie. The worst part of doin this process again is awaiting the impending doom. Especially with the long half life of these subs. I tend to mentally psyche myself out about going through withdrawals, who doesn't? and almost make things worse. Whoever reads this fully you have no idea how much it means to me. I can't talk to really of my close friends nor do I really want to. They just don't quite get it. I have a good core group of close friends but I know that you guys seem like a solid support system that knowledgable. The other night I was feeling particularly crappy and almost started to cry. But because These suck every drop of emotion out of me I could even shed a tear. which sucks because a good cry feels damn good sometimes when going though W/D's. Thank you very much for listening. I always feels pathetic and vulnerable posting because I know my problem seems minuscule to many others. It is what is though. Really excited for feedback. Take care.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 10:03 am 
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Welcome to you Saintsmall. Nice to have you join us!

Your story is quite common, and you seem to know what is expected, and what is to come. That's definitely to your advantage. Jumping from 3-4mg a day you know the symptoms may not even begin for several days. The Clonidine is certainly very helpful, as are the Klonopin and Imodium. I would just say to remember that yor getting off drugs, so try to limit the use of other drugs for that purpose. I always tried to gut it out as hard as possible, and for as long as possible before giving in to the Clonidine, or others.

Make sure to stay well hydrated, certainly with lots of water, but also with things like Gatorade to provide electrolytes and energy. Hot baths/showers, maybe some melatonin and/or sleepy time tea to hopefully get some rest. Staying as busy as you possibly can is key. Any exercise to help pass time and build endorphim output also helps. Music can also be your best friend through this. But the one thing that makes the most difference is TIME. It's going to take time to let things settle down. Once you get through the initial symptoms, the days get better and better.

You just have to want it real bad. More than anything else. You can do it, and many here will help you along the way. All the best to you and keep posting all the thoughts you have. Posting helps more than many people realize! :D

Karen


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 3:45 pm 
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Hi Saintsmall,

Welcome! You got a great response from Karen already, she is always full of great advice and is a very ardent supporter of those who are tapering. You know what to expect, and as hard as it is to say, there's really nothing else we can tell you that you don't already know to help you be more comfortable. But, we can be here to cheer you on and encourage you. :D

Maybe you could make a list of all the reasons you want to quit taking the suboxone and post it in a prominent place to keep you focused on the goal when times get tough. Be prepared for those weak moments and have a plan in place for how you will get past them. The real battle isn't making it through the WD. You know that it will get better over time, pain is only temporary even though it feels like FOREVER when you are in the middle of it! The real battle is preparing yourself to stay clean after the sub WD is over. What are you going to do to prevent a relapse in the future? The only thing worse than failing at a taper and not getting off the subs, is to make it through the acute wd only to relapse later and have to go through it all again!

Get a plan in place and work it! You can do it saint, if you want it bad enough!

Good luck, and keep us posted on your progress ok?

Qhorsegal2

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No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. ~ Eleanor Roosevelt


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 Post subject: Update
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:28 am 
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Just an update all. Once again please read though this initial manic introduction to understand my questions on the bottom...So I got one more 8mg strip that I've made last from my first post until now. I have about .4 mg left I'm going to take tomorrow. I needed that extra suboxone to get me through work. Now I have this entire week off to get clean after I take my last dose tomorrow. For those of you that don't know my history, please read my first post as to advise me better if you have any insight. Like I mentioned in my first post I'm really involuntarily psyching myself out about this upcoming withdrawal. I'm wayy inside my own head too much. I have a lot to look forward to upon being clean, but the road to that destination looks dreadful. I know it's only about 4-5 days of hellish conditions. I've done it before and I'll manage it again. I'm just pathetically scared to do it. To give up my comfort, relaxation, and sanity for a few days that seem to never end. After a full night of tossing and turning, the darkness seems to help a little bit with the discomfort, but when day breaks and the brightness plows into the windows I always cringe. I hate daytime and sunlight during the brunt of the withdrawal. Every time i go through withdrawals it seems to get exponentially worse. Shame on me again and again.. Anyways, all that non sense aside, I have Klonipin and a 24 hour gym to sauna and hot tub at late at night. From past experiences, sweating it out in the sauna and soothing soreness in the hot tub not only helps with sleep, but also cuts substantial time off the withdrawal due to pushing out the suboxone quicker via sweat. In my own experience at least. Other than my own little arsenal of remedies, any other last advice would be hugely appreciated. What other remedies or medicine should I pick up? How can I make this withdrawal a lot more "comfortable". Any non-opiate "cheat codes", so to speak. Anything to help sleep?? I can't keep living like this. Please help. I'm excited to get back to normal. Thank you all.

-Small


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:55 am 
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Also thank you Karen and Horsegal. Moral support helps immensely from those who know the deal. This recent stint with the suboxone was the worst "hiccup" I've had in a year or so. The relapse purely happened because I acquainted myself with an old, very terrible of an influence friend, and ended up moving in with him for a bit. That's over now. Once I'm done with this withdrawal I have non stop work and was recently promoted. I start school in a couple months and have too much on the line to do this dreadful process again. I've always tried to do this all by myself and deal with sobriety like a lone wolf.. How foolish I've been. This time I plan on going to meetings and hopefully procure a sponsor of some sort. Between work, school, sobriety meetings, and going to the gym, I hope it keeps me busy enough to stay good. Relapse prevention is my biggest concern. After the withdrawals and getting seemingly back to normal, it's so easy to get bored, get some cravings that grow with prolonged thought, see an old friend, and succumb to using again. You tell yourself "withdrawals aren't that bad. I've done it before I can manage it this time. I'll only do it once". Then your sucked in. I can't do that again. If I slip up again I am moving to a different state for school again. It was the only time I quit for a long period of time. I was surrounded by positive people, positive things, and didn't have access to the drug resources like I do in my hometown. I may even move before I slip up again.. I'm new to all this and feel bad just rambling on like this so I apologize if I am misusing this resource. For those that listen I appreciate it a lot and will reciprocate the assistance in any way as well. Thank you all.
-Small


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 8:09 am 
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Hey Small,

Lets just say I hear ya loud and clear. I was you at one point in my life. You have a good idea of what's to come, but I think you also know there's just no easy way out of this sometimes. We beat our mind and bodies up so bad using, stopping, using, stopping, then expect symptoms to make it so easy on us when we attempt to repair the damage. You have to WANT IT more than anything else in the world, and it takes TIME to get back to any kind of what normal use to be.

Saintsmall5134 wrote:
If I slip up again I am moving to a different state for school again. It was the only time I quit for a long period of time. I was surrounded by positive people, positive things, and didn't have access to the drug resources like I do in my hometown. I may even move before I slip up again.
That's all nice and sounds great right? You use again, you move, find another school, and your on the right path....or so you believe. I can promise you it doesn't work like that Small. It wouldn't take long before you meet the "right person" that knows another person, and the madness begins yet again.

We can't MOVE away from drugs....they are EVERYWHERE! If you can't find THEM...They will find YOU my friend!

I think you have to consider the possibility an extended stay on Suboxone may be right for you. Was it really so bad taking it each day? I know to some that may sound hypocritical of me because I stopped taking subs, I'm off. But I was on it over 3+ years, and I was READY to be off. I no longer am interested in drugs. I have been offered a full bottle of Vicodin, and handed them right back to the person. I refused them in the hospital a while back, refused a script for them too. I no longer want that lifestyle. I'm also attending NA meetings, and seeing a therapist all to keep me on the right path. I believe I'm doing all the right things to keep me from using. And the biggest factor is - I JUST DON'T WANT TO USE ANY LONGER!

Is it possible for me to relapse again? Of course it is. I'm not naive enough to believe it couldn't happen again, I've relapsed so many times I can't count them all. I have said here many times, this is my last shot at it. Should it happen again, I'm going right back to bupe, and stay there the rest of my life. No questions, just going to do it. But I honestly believe I'm in the best position possible right now, for ME. Yes, the odds are stacked against me, yes this disease is much stronger than both of us, but I have fight in me, and I plan to live the rest of my life without using again. Are you at that point yet Small?

Just think it over carefully. Give it your best shot if that's what you want to do. But don't forget you have a pretty good friend in the bupe. Best wishes and good luck. Keep posting, it really does help!

Karen


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:40 pm 
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Hiya Saintsmall5134! I have a list of a few things that helped me with my withdrawal symptoms and the $$$ do add up but I can assure you that everything does work. You already know about sweating it out, that does help but you are losing a lot of good stuff along with the bad! If you don't take one already, take a multi-vitamin everyday. The brand name One-a-day has one specifically for men that I recommend and costs about $10 for a bottle that will last you a month. Make sure to drink plenty of water (base your intake on your body weight -I was told 40 ounces of water for 100 lbs) I mix mineral water with bottled water so I can get all of the extra minerals possible and that cost me about $15 a week. Gatorade or something like that will work too but can get really expensive. Milk Thistle helps flush everything out - I take a 175 mg capsule three times a day and a bottle of 90 was around $10. Passion flower helps with the crazy jumpy legs at night which is THE WORST for me - I bought mine at GNC for $12 in liquid form with a dropper and I put 1 drop (not dropper full, just 1 drop) in every bottle of water I drink. Valerian root is one of God's greatest gifts to the world, I LOVE IT! Known as "Nature's Valium" it helps with anxiety, helps keep my mind from racing and lets me relax and when I take a higher dosage helps me sleep. I bought a bottle of 90 capsules of 100 mgs at Target for around $10 and to get that valium/xanax feeling I take 300 mgs and to sleep I take another 300 mgs. Last but not least to help sleep I take 3 mg of Melatonin at bedtime which also runs about $10 for a bottle of 60 pills. That is my withdrawal arsenal and I hope you try some of it if not all of it - my withdrawal from 23 mg of methadone was lessened with the help of everything here. If I was forced to pick one that helped most it would be the Valerian root so if you get nothing but that it alone will help you immensely! I wish you the best of luck!


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