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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:43 pm 
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Is there anyone here that is/was a heavy heroin smoker? I want/MUST get off this junk now! I am scared of p/w. I plan to wait as long as possible (15-24hrs) then induce on just 1-2 mg of sub. at first. I am curently smoking half to a full gram of H a day and I have been doing this 7 months straight, no break. Is the 15-24 hrs going to be long enough to avoid P/W? TJ? How about you? Any good info for me? Any info, advise or encouragement welcome. BTW, I do not have a doctor at this point. I have around 32 mg of sub left over from my last time and I will find a doctor after if I decide to stay on it for any length of time. Please don't judge.... Sincerely, k


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:01 pm 
I can help ya a little. I've made the switch before. Depending on how quick it takes you to start feeling the sickness. That's when you should induct subs. It's going to vary for each person so i don't like the timeframe that's given for starting sub. Use it as a reference point. As individual mileage may vary. 15-24 hours in my opinion is perfect amount of time to wait. I know i'd be getting really sick 12 hours in.. Put it this way. The worse you feel and more you wait, the better then sub is going to help. Good luck, it's going to be bumpy for the first two or three days transitioning to subs. But give your self time to get used to it. oh.. And you have the right idea taking about 2mg of sub. Then if you need to. Take a sliver more every 2 hours or so untill you feel ok.
Put it this way. When you wake up and yawn tearing streaming down your face... Go to the bathroom and go number one and two at the same time. All while puking into the bathtub next to you simultaneously. THAT is when you take subs... Eck...


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:15 pm 
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Hi sweet16,
Are you the same sweet16 that was here doing a taper a while back (different avatar, same name)? Either way, welcome or welcome back. I'm glad you have made the decision to get back into recovery. I'm not a heroin smoker myself, but I can recommend googling the COWS (clinical opiate WD ) scale to rate your withdrawal. I believe it it recommended to score in the mid-twenties on the scale to avoid precipitated WD. Good luck and let us know how it goes.
Lilly
Ps. You might remember I taperd off Sub a little while before (or after?) you. I relapsed and am back on Sub now. So you're definitely not going to get any judgement here. I just hope you are OK.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:40 pm 
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HEY Lillyval, yes its me, Same girl different avatar. I changed it for privacy reasons. My other one was just too clear of an image that anyone would recognise me. Now that I relapsed, I would rather be annonymous for now. I am sorry to hear you relapsed. Man this opiate stuff is really no joke. I actually DO remamber your taper and when you jumped. Wow.. I have a lot of catching up to do. I really do not feel that bad. Well, I DO BC I have Bronchitis and I really dove DEEP into my addiction, but honestly I am so happy to be getting back on track and doing all the things I enjoyed doing before I re-started enjoying heroin... I have learned some great stuff from this relapse and I have grown in a lot of ways. So not ALL is lost. How long before you relapsed Lil? It took me only 3 weeks.....Thanks Lillyval, I appreciate you.
Will430... LOL THANK you... I was hoping I would not have to wait till I was "that damn sick", but I know Its for the best. My body metabolises in about 10-12 hrs. My aim is 15-24 hrs. I am certain I will not make it the 24 hrs. My habit is, like I said, not small. I do get yawning, goosebumpy flesh, tears, and gutwrench right about 12 hrs...BUT I will wait as long as I can. I DO know the longer I wait, the more relief I will get from the sub. THANK YOU very very much for your wisdom.
I will certainly be using the COWS as a guide. Ahhh the things we do to ourselves.
This aint my first rodeo...but boy am I glad to be getting off the damn bull.. That sucker really beats a body up.... THANKS GUYS!!!!


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:53 pm 
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Hey sweets and welcome back. I like the new avatar. It's got some attitude. Is that a paper tube hanging from your mouth?

It's been a while since I transitioned from heroin -> Sub. But the main thing is to be experiencing moderate withdrawals. 15-24 hours should be ample. Clinical guidelines say 12+ hours, but it'd be wise to add a lil bit more to that to be safe, esp given you're running a decent habit. Try and be around someone in recovery to keep you motivated during that period, or even post-regularly here. Because it can seem all too easy to "put it off" another 15 hours, if u know what I mean.

If you wait until your withdrawals are strong enough, even if you do experience a lil bit of PW its symptoms won't be nearly as severe as the withdrawal you're already feeling, so you'll still feel like Sub has relieved your sickness anyway. Then over the next day or two as you gradually increase your dose you'll feel more and more normal.

Make the first dose 1-2mg like you said. If it takes the edge off your withdrawals a bit, then you know you can take some more. If it doesn't help, instead making you feel speedy, anxious, jittery kinda withdrawal symptoms, then I'd def hold off taking your next dose until those symptoms subside, then proceed cautiously and listen to your body.

Depending how strong the gear is where you are ... you may end up needing a higher dose of Sub to manage your cravings. Let us know how you go.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:20 am 
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Ha ha TJ Thanks for the welcome back. Yes my avatar is a photo from me in a halloween costume. I was sort of a cheerleader/rollerderby girl. ANd the "tube" is of course a part of the costume. :lol: Thanks a buncha Teej' you definately gave me some useful info. I am glad I now know what symptoms PW might feel like. I have never really expereinced any major WD. I've always made sure to keep myself stocked way up in case. I'm like that with canned food & water and apparently my drugs too.. Curently I am sitting at less than a gram. I drop my kitty off at the vet to get spayed tomorrow and then I plan to "use" for the last time around 1:00pm-ish. That way I sort of hit my 12hrs. at 1:00am, while I am sleeping (w/ the help of a little extra xanax to make sure I sleep thru as much of it as I can.) If I can, I will take my son to school at 7:30am.(less than a mile away) That will be a good enough distraction, then when I get home, I expect I will induce if I feel bad enough. If not... I will wait..... till I am, as Will430 put it, and I quote, "yawn tearing streaming down your face... Go to the bathroom and go number one and two at the same time. All while puking into the bathtub next to you simultaneously." Not to mention I have the COWS thingy right next to my bed.. I am sure I will know. I guess like all of us, I am wishing for a easy as possible transition... It definately has its pro's and con's, having to wait so long to induce. I guess if it were easy, we would all be going back n forth like a marry'go'round...(or does that go round'n'round?) Anyway you get my point I will for sure keep posting here. I am a TOTAL closet user. None of my friends know, I do not hang out w/ druggies (like myself), I lead a seemingly healthy lifestyle. For those of you who do not know me, I am a massage therapist (yes certified) and do holistic skin care. I have a private concierge clinic here at the beach. I am truly blessed.. I am done throwing it all away for H. My teeth are showing signs of smoking it. (greying) My face is looking sunkin in. It does not help that I just came down with a horrible case of bronchitis.. I eat a strict organic vegetarian diet and often even vegan. I do all home remedies and here I am smoking heroin off tinfoil.... real healthy.
I will keep ya all updated and for the record, TJ, YES I know exactly what you mean putting it off for another 15 more hrs... Ive done that the last 7 months...... Goodnight & many blessings.... Sweets


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:55 pm 
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I don't think you should worry too much about p/ws. I could be wrong but I remember taking a suboxone when I was still just smoking H and I was fine. In fact, I may have even felt buzzed. I wasn't intentionally inducing, I was desperate and didn't want to feel crappy so my friend gave me one of his pills. I only waited about 8 hours or so. I would always recommend waiting as long as you can, but that was my experience. When I induced for the first time it was after years of injecting and and that wasn't as easy. My final induction was from methadone and that was brutal. Don't do what I did, stop this in it's tracks.

Regardless, you're doing the right thing. If you stop using H it can only get better, if you continue using H it will only get worse.

How are you doing today?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:33 pm 
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Since you asked.....I think around 3 1/2 weeks I took some hydro just because I was tired of dragging, and it didn't do anything. So of course I then tried some Percs, which also didn't do much - it wasn't a full out relapse. But then maybe 2 months down the road I got a script, then another - all very unsatisfying. I was working the program and my sponsor was strongly suggesting I consider in-patient - so of course I was like, fuck that, because I was barely using. Then I compromised and signed up for an out patient program, which I thought would be good because I wasn't working much and it would give me somewhere to be every morning. Well, of course, there was a wait period, so I used the fact that I was going to treatment to go all out, snorting heroin & the like (I even smoked some crack and I'm normally an opiate purist). So the full out relapse happened at about 4 months - but, yes, I was dabbling from just a few weeks in. *sigh*

I'm always very hesitant to post stuff like this because I feel like anyone thinking about it might think - hey, they went out and came back OK - they used and then just jumped back on Sub. No big deal. But I really don't look at it that way. Personally, I put myself in some dangerous positions and I'm lucky. Also *this is important*. I never really experienced euphoria. It's like after 2+ years on Sub the thrill was gone - the drugs just didn't work like they used to. I was left with only one option - the needle - and thank God I just didn't want to go down that path. There's NOTHING out there for me (or any of us) anymore.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:04 pm 
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I've started before 8 or so hours after 200mg of oxy.

No p/w in sight

I would take TJs advice though on the H train.

Just my random opinion. > your profession has a lot of similar cases sweets. I've got a..close family member who is a LMT. They hear & see it all the time.

Tips make opiate addicts, Haha.

Hoping your induction goes well!

-WTBF


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:46 am 
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Well, OK guys... I went past my 1:00 "last use" goal and actually last used at just before 7pm this evening. I had some work I JUST HAD to get done. Rent is due and I have been unable to work this past week due to bronchitis. I actually thought "I should just push it off (my induction) untill after I get my rents paid" (I have 2 rents. My apartment rent & my office rent... both due on the 1st)....Then something TJ said about it being so easy to just "push it off" another 15 hrs... And then I thought about all the wonderful things I will do once I stop smoking dope.. #1, I want to be pretty again. (yes I know thats vain, but I dont want to look strung out like I'm starting to, especially BC I am also bronchitis sick,, greatly due impart to smoking H off tinfoil), I want to feel healthy again, I want to travel. In fact, I have a 30 day trip to Thailand PAID FOR in September. I MUST BE CLEAN to do that, unless I smuggle my drugs up my wahoo. Then run the risk of running out early.. How rediculous right?... (it HAS happened, believe me!) I am anxious to go camping. Go out with my friends and enjoy a happy hour. (though i dont drink & dont want to start) Enjoy Hiking, FINALLY Have a normal bowel movement. (TMI) I want to be available to meet some nice gents, maybe go out on dates, go for walks, go to the beach, do yoga, take road trips, SAVE MONEY!! I gotta be clean for these things...So No more drugs now guys. I am gonna take extra xanax tonight before bed. Get some good rest, wake up at 7am, (12hrs post use) take my boy to school, take more xanax, crawl back in bed w/ some movies on netflix & my baby kittys. Untill I am feeling like the dead and then I'll induce on 1mg of sub, at first, then another in 30-60 min. if I need more I'll take another 1mg. This is my plan and I AM sticking to it! Today as a ritual, I tossed all my tinfoils, my scale, my smoking straws, all my stash bags and even cleaned out the drawer where I kept my stash. I vaccumed eral good in my closet. Where I use... I told ya I am a closet user... LITTERALLY. Even the past few times I smoked, and I smoked ONLY when I was feeling too yucky to work, I got neaseous. I would tell myself this is nasty.. AND IT IS.. I cleaned the soot off my doors where I opened them w/ fingers that had black soot from the burned foil. I kinda cleaned it all up and threw it all away. I know what to do. By thi time 7AM rolls around I know I will feel like shit, but I can still make my boy breakfast and drive im to school I am gonna wait til I am really hurting. The loose bowels is something I am looking forward to honestly. I have been constipated for 7 months now. Not a normal or remotely soft bowel. I havn't even had a menstral period in 7 months. I guess natures way of preventing a special needs child. I will be able to orgasn again THATS A BIGGY FOR ME!... Wow... thats gonna be nice.. So I am off to lala land ya'all. WISH me luck God bless you all... Im not religeous not a Christian, but I have been listening to gospel and praying for strenth. I AM CHANGING the course of my LIFE!!!!!! I'm so happy & look forward to feeling like shit. BC I know it iwll only be for a little bit and then its smooth sailing from there on out.. Thanks for reading and bless you ALL and especially the oneds that responded. XOXOXOX Kimberlly


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:04 am 
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I wish you the best - it sounds like you have your eye on the prize, and I KNOW what a determined person you are. You will succeed!


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:06 pm 
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How are you doing sweet?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:20 pm 
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Orgasms > Heroin

You've got this :)


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:23 am 
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Hey guys, just a quick update. I know this is definately not part of my origional game plan, however I have decided to taper off my DOC. I know, I know, it sounds like an excuse to keep using.... And I am still using. Thats true. For the record, I have reduced my use by at LEAST 75%. I was using a half to a gram a day. Now, I am down to just a few hits when I am feeling bad. Just enough to be able to function during the day. I stop any use at 5 ishPM, when I no longer need to function at work. I do not use till I wake up sweating and cramping all to hell usually 3-6am. WHY do I not just induce onto sub you ask? Well, the way I figure, I will have to taper off the sub at some point BC I KNOW I do not want to stay on sub. long term. Even though I know many of you believe I need to consider sub maintainance. I have (considered) and I just do not want to go back on sub maintanance. I believe in my heart I can and WILL get off of heroin. I have done it before and remained off for years and years and years. I know what I want and I AM a determined woman. I have overcome LOTS of trials and succeeded. I know in my heart of hearts I can and WILL overcome this too. Second reason I do not want to go back on sub is, I have a trip to Thailnd in Sept. and I am NOT going to be on ANY opiates while in a foreign land. Anyway I know I will get lots of opinions and I totally understand AND VALUE all of your input, I just want to try to get off H this my way. It has been a challenge to not use when I have my DOC stareing me in the face, but I am managing to follow thru with abstaining from using recreationally, for the most part. Anyway, my goal is to jump off my DOC by Feb.14.. My Valentines day gift to myself. If I fail, then I will have to go the sub route. Right now, I feel strong. I feel determined and I am up for this challenge. I have resumed juicing daily and walking to the beach. My diet had changed dramatically. WHile using all that crap, I was eating tons of sweets. Since I have reduced my use by so much, I have had a very small appetite. I am eating only fresh fruits & veggies. No snacking in bed at night. I am surprised how fast my body has ajusted to this teeny tiny amount of H Ive been using. I do have stomach cramps and anxiety everyday. My back does hurt a lot. I have been taking advil & Tylonal for the pain. I take xanax (my normal dose) to help me sleep. In fact once I jump off the H. I have cough syrup w/ codine I will use if I feel the need to take the edge off. I understand the odds are against me. I am not kidding myself. I know what I am up against and I KNOW I can do it. I am also the kind of person that isn't afraid to throw in the towel when I am defeated. Anyway, I just wanted to let you all know what I am doing. I have not posted BC technically I am still using. This forum is for those who choose suboxone, methadone or abstinance. So I will keep ya all posted and please do not judge me. Feel free to give your honest opinions ( I DO value each and every person who gives me advise) If I make it off heroin, YAAAAY for me.. If I don't then you all can say " I told ya so" and I will....get my ass on suboxone once again.... Thank you all for being supportive.. Sincerely, Sweet16...


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:37 am 
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Sweet, this isn't your first rodeo and seeing as you've already cut your daily H by 75%, I'm behind ya. You sound like you're being honest with yourself and us and I understand the thought process you're using about having to taper of Suboxone anyway.

If I may suggest, how about some regular updates here on the forum to help keep you in check? Would you consider that?

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:14 pm 
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Hi Sweet!

I am so glad you are back!

I am sorta uneasy about your plan. Being on sub is better than being on heroin. I mean heroin could kill ya. You dont really know what you are getting.

Whatever you do keep us updated. We want to know how you are doing and we will support you. Be careful!


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:46 pm 
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Kimberly,
I'm glad you posted - I've been checking back a lot to see what's going on and I was getting a little concerned. I don't think any of us here are in a position to judge you, or say I told you so if your plan doesn't work out . You're a big girl and I think you know the beast you're dealing with. Any time we cop or use H it's a gamble. Stay safe and keep your little one safe. And I don't believe you have to to be clean to post here. Just like in NA they say, the only requirement for membership is a DESIRE to stop using. I think you got that.
Stay safe,
Lilly


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:22 pm 
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Hey Ya'all. HAPPY Valentines Day!!! Yes it was a happy one indeed BC I am not filthy dirty!!! I am not 100% clean, but I have managed to cease using heroin on a daily basis. At first it was pretty simple BC I only really needed to use every 6-8 hrs. to stay out of WD. But then as I went along, I would "reward" myself for doing so good. Or, I would allow myself a hit to have enough energy to make it thru my next 3 clients, or I would get pissed at someone and use to make myself feel better. After a few days of this, more like a week, I was getting closer and closer to my STOP date and I realised I am not gonna make it if I keep allowing myself rewards. Me being a determined person and wanting sooooo badly to feel good, look good, have a normal life once again, I got back on my wagon and got serious about getting off that shit. I mean to be honest it IS easy in many ways. I just only used when I felt miserable. Then it got less and less till I was going an entire day without using. I could go a few days without feeling like I HAD to use to get thru my day. The craving part is the absolute worst part. And I don't fall asleep in a split second anymore. I do have xanax but I am doing my best to not get my tolerance thru the roof. Instead of my regular half mg at bedtime, I am up to 1 mg at bedtime. I do get a bit of anxiety, but I do not have loads of energy so I just dont go many places yet. It is not all that hard to go about my daily activities without using. I do not feel AWSOME, I am a little tired, I do get emotional, but the good things are that I can have orgasms again!! YAAAY and quite easily..but I have no partner, sooo they aren't all that fun...ha ha...Seriously that is the #1 best part...lol. Another GREAT thing is that I am saving a ton of money and paying down my credit cards. I do have to push myself harder than when I am using. I have to PUSH myself to get my ass out to walk... but that is what I WANTED, to get my ass out to walk.... I have to push myself to go to work, but I MUST work... So all in all, I am doing good. This is why I am not saying I am CLEAN I do slip here and there. I am not gonna lie, I do use occasionally so I am not COMPLETELY clean. When I do use I only use a tiny tiny bit. (not that its not equally as bad) At some point (VERY SOON) I AM gonna stop that all together. I have gone 4 days at once without using. Then I will use once or twice in a day then stop for 3-4 days. By the end of the month I will NOT do this anymore. I just wanted to let you aLL know where I am and that it isn't impossible to taper off heroin. I am not 100% YET, MORE LIKE 95%. I AM on my way and I will let ya all know when I am there.... LOVE Sweet16


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:14 am 
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Just KEEP FIGHTING GIRL :P :P :P

THATS ALL YA CAN DO!!!!!!

and NONE of us, judge you,,,, I know I speak for most of the regulars when I say that anyways.....

I don't think there isn't ONE OF US, that has NOT been in your "shoes"
one way or the other....


anyways,
thanks for the update, you do sound like your doing better..... just keep fighting, eye on the "prize"
YOU
CAN
DO
THIS

and we're here for you!!!!!!!!

lots of love and strength to you my friend :wink:

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:23 pm 
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Thank you Amber, I love you too su=ister... My point is that IT IS possible to taper off your DOC. If you have determination. Staying off is the hardest part. It is a daily struggle. We all just want to feel good. Find something to replace the good feeling of being high.. There are natural endorphins that feel exactly the same AND they LAST LONGER! SO run, walk briskly, ride a bicycle, play volleyball in the sand on the beach, have orgasms.. (tee hee) All those things create endorphins to release into your system and it feels good...........(just takes longer to get there VS getting high).... These are my alternative activitys... I also attend a drum circle whic feels great too......Good luck EVERYBODY.... YOU CAN, I CAN, WE ALL CAN! Blessings to all......


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