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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:18 am 
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My son and I started taking Suboxone over a year ago. No reason really, just made us feel a little better and since it is intended to help people get off of opiates, it must be pretty innocuous right? WRONG! Before some of you start to jump on me for misusing subs, just remember the reasons aren't so very different than the reasons any of us started anything. Anyway, had no idea it would be a problem until trying to quit. I have been reading your stories for 2 months now and just became terrified of quitting. The first part of January a guy named blueindian posted about his relatively easy detox and mentioned Kratom. Shortly after this, I had to move suddenly and lost my internet connection but not before ordering some Kratom. I have only just today been able to write to thank him for the information.
All of you suffering through Suboxone withdrawal, need to look up, order and start taking Kratom. It allows you to sleep, eat and work. My son and I have not missed one day of work and it has been thirteen days since our last dose of Sub. My son was taking 5-6 mg. and day and I was ususally taking about 3.
I know a lot of you are not going to like what I have to say especially since I wasn't taking it for the intended reasons, but I have dealt with addictions of one sort or another most of my adult life. Suboxone is an evil, nasty, insidious, highly addictive drug. These doctors who prescribe it are either unaware or totally irresponsible. My son's friend who is on it said her doctor told her she will be on it (24 mgs./day) for the rest of her life.
Anyway, I hope some of you suffering through this will listen and do yourselves a huge favor. Blueindian helped us and I'm just trying to pay it forward.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:33 am 
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I hope you come back and update us when you decide to quit Kratom. From what I know, Kratom is addictive too.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:38 am 
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Lindah wrote:
My son and I started taking Suboxone over a year ago. No reason really, just made us feel a little better and since it is intended to help people get off of opiates, it must be pretty innocuous right? WRONG! Before some of you start to jump on me for misusing subs, just remember the reasons aren't so very different than the reasons any of us started anything. Anyway, had no idea it would be a problem until trying to quit. I have been reading your stories for 2 months now and just became terrified of quitting. The first part of January a guy named blueindian posted about his relatively easy detox and mentioned Kratom. Shortly after this, I had to move suddenly and lost my internet connection but not before ordering some Kratom. I have only just today been able to write to thank him for the information.
All of you suffering through Suboxone withdrawal, need to look up, order and start taking Kratom. It allows you to sleep, eat and work. My son and I have not missed one day of work and it has been thirteen days since our last dose of Sub. My son was taking 5-6 mg. and day and I was ususally taking about 3.
I know a lot of you are not going to like what I have to say especially since I wasn't taking it for the intended reasons, but I have dealt with addictions of one sort or another most of my adult life. Suboxone is an evil, nasty, insidious, highly addictive drug. These doctors who prescribe it are either unaware or totally irresponsible. My son's friend who is on it said her doctor told her she will be on it (24 mgs./day) for the rest of her life.
Anyway, I hope some of you suffering through this will listen and do yourselves a huge favor. Blueindian helped us and I'm just trying to pay it forward.


To me, that is just not fair to say and makes no sense. You and your child started taking a controlled, prescription medication that you did not need so that you could 'feel better' and you are angry at doctors. Are you kidding me? And now you are coming on and suggesting that people start take Kratom, which can be habit-forming and isn't supervised by any doctor. C'mon.....it's just a ridiculous argument and I hope what you and your son take from your experience is a lesson in personal responsibility. It is your body and your fault. Sorry to be so blunt, but you need to be assuming responsibility for your decisions and actions. And you shouldn't be advising people to do what you are doing. How do you feel without the Kratom? You are most likely now dependent on the Kratom, FYI. I guess when you run out you will be saying how nasty and insidious it is.

I think it would be more helpful to say "I took medication I did not need and didn't care to even find out what it was before I started taking it or if it was even safe. BAD DECISION!!! Don't do that." That would be helpful advice.

Maye this was just flaming....and I'm falling for it, lol.

LT

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:30 pm 
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Cmon now ladder, us folks that are NO LONGER in active addiction or ACTIVELY seeking know what this is...this is DENIAL in it's biggest form. Usually, though, an addict doesn't blame the pills, they blame stress, work, family, kids, emotional issues, worry, etc, etc, etc...

But I guess in some cases, the person actually does blame a pill. Maybe if people would go to a doctor for their medicines instead of acquiring them through "other means" they would find out ALL of the information on the drugs they are taking.

Self-Medicating and self-diagnosis are two of the leading causes of addiction.

So it's not surprising to see someone who has diagnosed themselves and now is self-medicating, or has been self-medicating..


I should add:

BTW, I appreciate your INSIGHTFUL review of Suboxone, original poster. It's folks like you that give us reasons to continue being under a doctor's care instead of deciding for ourselves what is best and writing our own ticket(s). THANKS AGAIN.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:40 pm 
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Oh, and since when do you take a Class III controlled substance that's a partial opiate agonist for:

"No reason really, just made us feel a little better and since it is intended to help people get off of opiates, it must be pretty innocuous right?"

And then, on top of that self-medicating, you come to a website with THAT medicine even in the NAME...and supposedly try to "warn" people here who use the meds PROPERLY UNDER A DOCTOR'S CARE????

Ok..we thank you.


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 Post subject: WHAT
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:28 pm 
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Although I don't agree with what she wrote...A WHOLE BUNCH of the people here got HIGH on Rx pills that were prescribed by a DR under a Drs care TO JUST FEEL good. Yes that is what you did don't be so self righteous. That Drs care argument is irrelevant.

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TAKE their advise that you SHOULDN'T BE GIVING MEDICAL ADVISE TO ANYONE!!!


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 Post subject: Re: WHAT
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:53 pm 
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Dana D D wrote:
Although I don't agree with what she wrote...A WHOLE BUNCH of the people here got HIGH on Rx pills that were prescribed by a DR under a Drs care TO JUST FEEL good. Yes that is what you did don't be so self righteous. That Drs care argument is irrelevant.

Original poster
TAKE their advise that you SHOULDN'T BE GIVING MEDICAL ADVISE TO ANYONE!!!



YOU should take a step back, because not everyone here had scripts. I never ONCE possessed a script for Oxycontin in my entire LIFE..but I put a gracious damn plenty of them up my damn nose.

Nobody's trying to say they're any better..but we're not the one's running around the internet and forums preaching that Suboxone is evil either.

So back-up and go at it again...take another pot-shot.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:35 pm 
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Most people take buprenorphine to treat a life-threatening condition. The people who boast about 'getting off Suboxone' are excited about the short-term; I would be more excited for them, if I didn't see so many of them a year or two later, after severe consequences from relapse.

I wish the best for anyone and everyone who is ready to take the serious step away from treatment. But boasting about it, as if the medication was the problem, is silly. We ALL know people who have died from opioid dependence.

Get real, Lindah.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:50 pm 
Lindah wrote:
My son and I started taking Suboxone over a year ago. No reason really, just made us feel a little better and since it is intended to help people get off of opiates, it must be pretty innocuous right?


A drug thats designed to help people get off some pretty serious shit!!, "Innocuous"?? No Way, surely you werent that naive?

Lindah wrote:
Before some of you start to jump on me for misusing subs, just remember the reasons aren't so very different than the reasons any of us started anything.


Thats a fair enough comment, but I could think of some far better drugs to "misuse" than sub. It doesn't even get you high

Lindah wrote:
Anyway, had no idea it would be a problem until trying to quit. I have been reading your stories for 2 months now and just became terrified of quitting.


You knew Suboxone was an Opiate right? All Opiates are hard to quit, most a lot harder than sub

Lindah wrote:
The first part of January a guy named blueindian posted about his relatively easy detox and mentioned Kratom. Shortly after this, I had to move suddenly and lost my internet connection but not before ordering some Kratom. I have only just today been able to write to thank him for the information.
All of you suffering through Suboxone withdrawal, need to look up, order and start taking Kratom. It allows you to sleep, eat and work. My son and I have not missed one day of work and it has been thirteen days since our last dose of Sub. My son was taking 5-6 mg. and day and I was ususally taking about 3.


Good luck getting off Kratom, youll need it.

Lindah wrote:
I know a lot of you are not going to like what I have to say especially since I wasn't taking it for the intended reasons, but I have dealt with addictions of one sort or another most of my adult life. Suboxone is an evil, nasty, insidious, highly addictive drug. These doctors who prescribe it are either unaware or totally irresponsible. My son's friend who is on it said her doctor told her she will be on it (24 mgs./day) for the rest of her life.


I don't really think anyone here would be too upset by what you have to say, actually most here would probably FEEL for you more than anything else and hope that you get the help you need before its too late. Perhaps one day you will get on to a good doctor and commence proper treatment using Suboxone the way it was intended.

Lindah wrote:
Anyway, I hope some of you suffering through this will listen and do yourselves a huge favor. Blueindian helped us and I'm just trying to pay it forward.


Your intentions are probably good, just very very misguided. Suboxone has saved thousands of lives, used properly it is an amazing tool in combating opiate addiction.
All the best.

Subie


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:45 pm 
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subie wrote:
Lindah wrote:
Lindah wrote:
Before some of you start to jump on me for misusing subs, just remember the reasons aren't so very different than the reasons any of us started anything.


Thats a fair enough comment, but I could think of some far better drugs to "misuse" than sub. It doesn't even get you high



apparently when your opiate naive or on very LOW dose like 1-2 mg and you take lets say 8mg you will feel some of its opiate effects...

but nothing like a full agonists


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:00 pm 
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The reason I deleted Lindah's last thread is because it's nothing but advertising. There has been a lot of spamming about Kratom recently by some usernames with only a few posts under their belt. And all their posts have only been pushing Kratom in some way or another. It's a bit suspicious when people offer little support to the people here, and only pop up when there's an opportunity to push Kratom.

Everyone here (for the most part) posts to support each other and their recovery. But you can only question whether this people post with the same motivation.

It's also a shame that these posts push Kratom in a negative way, at the expense of other proven viable recovery tools like Suboxone. IMO what's going on with all this Kratom stuff in here has a very stinky aroma.


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 Post subject: I agree
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:08 am 
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it seems like advertising. But on a broader point, I wish our "leaders" would take a more progressive approach to addiction, and allow research on any and all chemicals that my help in the fight against opiate addiction. For example, why do other countries have the open-mindedness to allow step downs with codeine or other weak opiates? Who do some countries allow heroin maintenance? Why do some countries have no penalties for possession of anything? THe US is very backwards in its approach to treating addiction and criminalizing drug addiction.

My ambien fueled rant is now over. Thanks for listening.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 7:03 am 
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subie wrote:
Lindah wrote:
My son and I started taking Suboxone over a year ago. No reason really, just made us feel a little better and since it is intended to help people get off of opiates, it must be pretty innocuous right?


A drug thats designed to help people get off some pretty serious shit!!, "Innocuous"?? No Way, surely you werent that naive?

Lindah wrote:
Before some of you start to jump on me for misusing subs, just remember the reasons aren't so very different than the reasons any of us started anything.


Thats a fair enough comment, but I could think of some far better drugs to "misuse" than sub. It doesn't even get you high

Lindah wrote:
Anyway, had no idea it would be a problem until trying to quit. I have been reading your stories for 2 months now and just became terrified of quitting.


You knew Suboxone was an Opiate right? All Opiates are hard to quit, most a lot harder than sub

Lindah wrote:
The first part of January a guy named blueindian posted about his relatively easy detox and mentioned Kratom. Shortly after this, I had to move suddenly and lost my internet connection but not before ordering some Kratom. I have only just today been able to write to thank him for the information.
All of you suffering through Suboxone withdrawal, need to look up, order and start taking Kratom. It allows you to sleep, eat and work. My son and I have not missed one day of work and it has been thirteen days since our last dose of Sub. My son was taking 5-6 mg. and day and I was ususally taking about 3.


Good luck getting off Kratom, youll need it.

Lindah wrote:
I know a lot of you are not going to like what I have to say especially since I wasn't taking it for the intended reasons, but I have dealt with addictions of one sort or another most of my adult life. Suboxone is an evil, nasty, insidious, highly addictive drug. These doctors who prescribe it are either unaware or totally irresponsible. My son's friend who is on it said her doctor told her she will be on it (24 mgs./day) for the rest of her life.


I don't really think anyone here would be too upset by what you have to say, actually most here would probably FEEL for you more than anything else and hope that you get the help you need before its too late. Perhaps one day you will get on to a good doctor and commence proper treatment using Suboxone the way it was intended.

Lindah wrote:
Anyway, I hope some of you suffering through this will listen and do yourselves a huge favor. Blueindian helped us and I'm just trying to pay it forward.


Your intentions are probably good, just very very misguided. Suboxone has saved thousands of lives, used properly it is an amazing tool in combating opiate addiction.
All the best.

Subie


I was going to break it down this way when I first read it, but my wife was sitting beside me and wanted to shop for baby swings...so I couldn't take all that time to respond to each point she made...but I DEF saw the opportunity to break her post down and tackle each "piece" of intelligent works.


I'm glad the doc chimed in...

He actually responded to a post with a video reply on the blog, back on Jan 19 I think it was, where I said I had been on Sub for 3 years and using it long-term.

I, for one, can't understand why others get so worried about what everyone else is doing with THEIR suboxone. I don't care what any of you guys do with your suboxone..take it, don't take it..ween off of it...I'm doing what I prefer to do with MY suboxone, so I can't worry about what other people decide is best for them. It's up to each of us to decide what's best for us, I can't influence someone to see my views on it..nor would I want to.


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 Post subject: SORRY IF I OFFENDED YOU
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:26 pm 
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jonathanm1978 wrote:

YOU should take a step back, because not everyone here had scripts. I never ONCE possessed a script for Oxycontin in my entire LIFE..but I put a gracious damn plenty of them up my damn nose.

Nobody's trying to say they're any better..but we're not the one's running around the internet and forums preaching that Suboxone is evil either.

So back-up and go at it again...take another pot-shot.


I wasn't trying to take a pot shot at you. Sorry if you feel that way. I just get tired of people preaching here. If you didn't have an Rx then you bought, sold, traded or possessed an opiate for abuse all of which were criminal offenses. Most of us here committed some type of crime during our addiction whether it was possessing H to buying or selling Rx (some of which were felonies), stealing to support our habit, etc. I said a whole bunch, not all, being all inclusive to particularly you. Understand where I am coming from? It was not an attack on you personally. Sorry if you took it that way. I just get tired of people trying to defend one RX while they abused others. Oxy was made for a specific purpose and so is the Sub. Abuse of one or the other is no different. I know that people here have a special place in their heart for Sub. I SURE AS HELL have a huge space in my heart for sub. It saved my marriage and MY LIFE, just as the Doctor said. Do I wish that people wouldn't abuse it DAMN right. Just like I wish people didn't abuse all other RX(Soma, Ativan, lortab, oxy, which gives it a horrible name). I didn't even approach the subject of her comments "Suboxone is an evil..." about Sub because they are absurd. Anyone who reads them will find a million other comments here on the way Sub saved their lives. Some people take longer to wake up than others. I just hope the thread starter (Lindah) gets HELP. Plus I HOPE to hell that no one follows her advise. People PLEASE!! PLEASE SEE your Doctor and don't take any [b]medical advise from ANYONE (including ME) on THE F@$KING INTERNET. [/b]

I am here for friendship and to get help, Sorry if I offended you that wasn't the intention.
Dana


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:17 pm 
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I dont know i was under a Dr care and have much anger towatds suboxone. The only difference is im the dumb fuck who believed my Drs and stayed on it for four years. Theres no one else to blame but yourself. Sure my Dr told me things would get better which they never did but he never once held my mouth open and made me take subs.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:27 pm 
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FWIW- I really don't care what other ppl do with their subs, either-
they can shove it up ther buts if they so choose to- LOL
(actually, I'm pretty sure that practice is called "plugging)...

Anyway- there ARE other forums on the internet that ARE "kratom-friendly"...
I don't think I'm allowed t o mention their name on here- but it is not that
difficult to find...

A Very Satisfied and Content Sub Patient of Almost 7 Years-

-ex-





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 Post subject: THIS!!!
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 5:19 pm 
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I am absolutely amazed at this reaction. I expected some but not this.
I first came to this forum in an effort to get off suboxone. I was very suprised to see how many people are having such difficulty quitting a drug that was supposed to help them with their addiction problems. Yes, I made a mistake. I had no addictions when I started taking it. It never even crossed my mind while I was taking it. Like suboxone, I had never even HEARD of Kratom before I saw that post from blueindian. I'm not part of a drug scene and never was with the possible exception of the pot and acid in the 60's and 70's. The prescriptions I have been addicted to in the past were always prescribed by my BLUE CROSS APPROVED doctors for years before I knew there was a problem. AND yes, I eventually started getting more from other people because my prescriptions weren't enough JUST LIKE THE REST OF YOU.
Prescriptions from doctors started back in the day when I was prescribed valium, nembutol, seconal, parest (methaqualone) etc. because I had anxiety attacks or a little trouble sleeping. These were prescribed by THE DOCTOR WHO DELIVERED ME.
It was never a case where I was out prostituting myself for drugs. This was back in the 60's & 70's. I went through years raising a family with NO drugs (except alcohol) after this. Then I had some problems after my children were grown and started seeing a psychiatrist who started with the benzos, remeron, trazadone, librium and so on. Went to rehab at one point but detoxed myself eventually. For the past five years there was never anything except an occasional xanax or hydrocodone. AND BTW Laddertipper my CHILD is 32 years old --not in utero.
Maybe some of you do need to be on this drug forever but there are are millions of people who have been addicted to this, that and the other and who have successfully gotten off and never gone back. I was just extremely surpised at the addictiveness of the drug and how incredibly powerful it is. Even though I may not have the same problems as the rest of you, I still think it's a dangerous drug. This kratom is helping us get rid of something we never should have started in the first place. I wanted to share this information the way it was shared with me. I hope someone who has run across this site will take my information and run. I watched this site for months looking for some kind of help and I finally got it.
What a bunch of hypocrits you are.
Disect this!


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 Post subject: PS:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 5:35 pm 
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There have been occasions in my life where opiates have been prescribed for fairly long periods. I have had cancer, divurticulitis and some rather serious back problems. Yes, I liked them very much but I have always been able to quit by myself. This drug is a whole different animal. And no, (to whoever asked), I didn't know it was an opiate. Why would you give an opiate to an opiate addict?


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 Post subject: Re: PS:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 5:58 pm 
Lindah wrote:
And no, (to whoever asked), I didn't know it was an opiate. Why would you give an opiate to an opiate addict?


You really know absolutely nothing about Suboxone do you. Any way, goodluck with your Kratom, I hope it works for you.
Cheers
Subie


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 6:11 pm 
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Lindah,

Do a google search for Kratom and read the Wikipedia article. Kratom (or its alkaloids) have been shown to stimulate the mu-opioid receptor. The mu-opiod receptor is the same receptor that regular opiates (pain pills, Suboxone, Heroin) bind to and activate.

I hate to say it, but I'm pretty sure you've just swapped one opiate for another, even though Kratom isn't labelled as an opiate.

You might want to google search Kratom withdrawal too, there's lots of information out there about Kratom withdrawal and it's not too pleasant.

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