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 Post subject: Rapid Taper
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 5:40 am 
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Hello All.

I am currently taking anywhere from 1 to 2 mg of Suboxone daily. Days are a little rougher when I take only 1 mg. However, it is imperative I am completely off the drug my the middle of August. I was thinking of starting tomorrow, dropping down to maybe 200 to 300 mcg of Suboxone. (I have 8 mg pills, and the liquid taper method is not an option for me, so my plan is to break my 8 mg tabs into 2 mg pieces, and just break it into roughly 8 pieces, which would be approximately 250 micrograms per piece. I would like to stay on this 200-300 mcg regimen for about 2 weeks or so, and then jump off completely. My question is, how painful does everyone think this will be? I am definitely expecting some pain, I know for a fact I'll have some insomnia and the unpleasant body aches, but I think this would be much less painful option than just jumping off cold turkey. Am I right to think this would be unpleasant, but doable? I just need to functional throughout the day--as long as I can get some work down and exercise a little during this rapid taper, I am willing to go through with it. Any opinions on this?

(BTW, my plan for breaking the 2mg pieces into 8 pieces, is just to crush the 2mg piece into a powder, and divide it into 8 piles. Otherwise I know it would be near impossible to break it cleanly into 8 pieces without it just crumbling up.)

Thanks for the help!


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 7:04 am 
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hi sunatback! i herd that sub pain patients, take from 60 2 100 mcr grams of bupe a day!! i think dr. junig said this?
i'm johnboy on 16mg 14 or 15 months. i think your on the rite track." others on the forum will help you out!


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:02 am 
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You didn't mention a few minor details...like why such a rush to stop and what your doctor has to say about the process.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:15 am 
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6 weeks is not a very long time to taper from Suboxone, mainly because of its long half-life.

Go to YouTube.com and search for Dr. Junig's videos on stopping suboxone...you will learn a lot.

Stabilize at 1 mg before starting to taper...jumping from 1 to 2 mgs in the Sub world is A BIG DIFFERENCE!!! I believe it was in one of Dr. J's videos that I heard him say that 4 mgs of Sub is equal to 10-12 small Percocets so you can see the difference in 1 mg and 2 mgs of Sub.

For me, the physical w/d has not been bad...it is the mental/emotional aspect of tapering that has been the hardest for me.

You didn't say how long you had been on Subs and how long you had been addicted to your DOC prior to Subs....all of this makes a difference in the taper, as well.

Are you under a doctor's care? If so, is he able to assist you through this fast taper with comfort meds?

Good luck to you and keep us posted as to how you do


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:02 am 
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I have to agree with clearaqua. Rushing a taper like you're planning will most likely cause you more withdrawal discomfort than if you slowed your taper down some. The slower and lower the taper is the less severe the acute and post-acute w/d will be. And like moman asked - is there a reason you need to be off so quickly? Most people who have the most success with a taper are the ones who are flexible and listen to their bodies. Setting a taper schedule in stone just doesn't seem to work as well.

Regardless of how you do it though, definitely try to get some comfort meds from your doc. Most specifically, you should try to get some clonidine. It's a BP med that's quite often used to treat some of the symptoms of opiate w/d. Many people say it helps a lot.

Again, I agree that how bad your w/d are will depend a lot on your overall addiction history. A faster taper like you're describing might cause you worse withdrawals, but yes, in my opinion it is doable. Suboxone withdrawals are said to last a bit longer than full agonist w/d, but aren't quite as bad. People w/d'ing from full agonists tend to stay in bed, not even able to type on an online forum, whereas people w/d'ing off sub are often able to get up and about, go to work, etc.

I'm not sure if any of this will help you or not, but I hope it does. Feel free to ask any questions you may have. GOOD LUCK!

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 2:42 pm 
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If you really do have to be off by Aug. here's my thought. First go to 1.75, 1.5, 1.25, then 1. ( don't just go from 2 to 1). Then instead of tapering down to those minute amounts, with those tiny piles, I would consider trying to increase the time between your 1 mg doses. So if you usu. take your dose in the a.m. take it a couple of hours later each day until you end up skipping a day. Then continue until you skip 2 days. I think once you can skip 3 you are done.
I have no data to back this up. I do know that one poster's doctor recommended this approach - and it is what I plan on doing. I'm sure others will reply with other methods and suggestions. Ultimately you will have to just do what you think is best. BTW if this is for a job, Sub isn't detected with standard pre-employment screens.
Good luck,
Lilly


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 6:22 pm 
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I am not under a doctor's care (so comfort meds that aren't OTC are out of the question)--I'm using my giant stockpile of suboxone from back when I had a doctor but never took them. Last year, I was taking 2 mg every other day, and jumped off, and almost made it through but finally cracked towards the end. My new plan, which I started this January, was to switch to 2 mg a day and then taper down that way, thinking it would be psychologically easier to start lowering my dose if I was taking it daily. Big mistake. Maybe I could switch back to 2 mg every other day, and then jump off that way? The withdrawal wasn't too bad. I want to get off by August because I'll be starting a new job, and I'm partially worried about a drug test, but more than that I'm just tired of being a slave to this tiny orange pill. I want my freedom back.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 8:05 am 
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I hear you that you want to be off by the time you start this new job. About the drug testing, like someone said, traditional employment drug screens do not look for suboxone. In order to test for sub, they have to specifically be looking for it, and I've not heard of any normal workplace screens that do so.

You might want to consider slowing down your taper to avoid some of the withdrawals. The reason I say this is: I'd hate for you to push yourself to get off it too fast only to start a new job and still be in withdrawals. Wouldn't you rather be doing a slow taper than be sick during your first couple weeks of work? Obviously you are the only one who can decide what you need/want to do, but I just wanted to point out a different perspective.

I hope you don't mind if I ask you a question. You said that you want your "freedom" back and that you're "tired of being a slave" to the little orange pill. I've been on suboxone for over two and a half years. I don't feel that I'm a slave to suboxone or for that matter to any of the other medications I must take.

Please understand that in no way am I trying to be argumentative - really, I'm not. I'm just trying to understand your point of view and what you mean. Because I don't feel that way, I'm having a hard time grasping what it means to you. I've heard others say the same or similar things and I guess i didn't get it then either.

Do you mind taking the time to explain what that means to you? I'd really appreciate it. If you don't want to, I respect that, too. I only want to understand a perspective that seems to be pretty common. Thanks.

And whatever you decide to do with your taper, I wish you luck. And please do keep us updated on how you're doing. :)

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:11 pm 
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I appreciate all the responses. I guess the slow taper seems more practical. I'll just have to try to stick with it.

To Hatmaker: It limits my decision making. I don't like anything to make my decisions for me. If want to stop taking suboxone, and have not been able to. It forces me to take it, like a slave. That is what I mean when I say I would like my freedom back.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:36 pm 
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I thank you for explaining that, but I must admit, I'm still confused. I won't ask you to try to explain again though. It's just that for me, my suboxone is no different than any of the other many meds I take, so I don't feel any of those things for it or for the beta blocker I take either. Hmmm, but I find it interesting, as I've heard others describe it that way, too. Again, thanks for replying.

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-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 5:27 pm 
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Hey man I was on Suboxone for 5 years anywhere from 16 to 32 Mgs over that time frame for pain and addiction. Well just recently I switched to methadone and had to taper off suboxone to do so. I did a very quick rapid taper and can say it sucked but I went without sub for a few days the first couple days were a living hell but the last couple days leading up to my 1st methadone dose I started to fell ok but my pain ruined that. I almost thought how nice it would be I didn’t have pain issues and just bite the bullet completely and stop all meds meaning that’s how much the WDs lessened up. I think if you did the taper you are talking about in your post you would not have any problems what so ever really. I mean you would def have some WDs but not really that bad at all. I wish you the best of luck and def keep us updated please.


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