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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:18 pm 
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Hi all,

I'm a new user here on the forum. I've been on Suboxone for about 3 years now and life has been good. That is up until the point to where I decided to quit taking Suboxone. I read so many forum posts on the net of people taking 8, 16 and even 24 mg per day and I just do not see why a physician would prescribe that amount of medication to a patient.

Now, everyone has a different story and has been addicted to different things but I started on Suboxone @ 2 mg and am now breaking my 8 mg pills down into 1/8's. That's what I take on a daily basis.

For the record, I had problems with OxyCodone, more specifically Roxicodone, Oxycontin, Percocets and pretty much anything else with opiates in it. i.e. Lortabs, etc...

I've even chewed up a Fentanyl patch or two and done a bit of Heroin as well. Never by IV, just up my nose...

Regardless, my real struggle comes now as I try to come off of Suboxone. I've tapered down to the smallest possible dose but I just can't seem to make it through withdrawals.

Throughout my treatment with Suboxone I have had horrible trouble waking up. Sometimes I'll sleep for hours and hours not hearing alarm clocks or phone calls. I'll also not have the energy or will to answer phones or to get up and do anything. I have lost 2 jobs because of this since I have been on Suboxone. What are you going to tell your supervisors? That I am a drug addict and the medicine I take to help me with it makes me sleep alot?

I need to know if anyone else out there has had severe sleeping problems due to Suboxone use. I was never like this before I started abusing opiates.

I also would like to know if the use of Clonodine is helpful for making through Suboxone withdrawal. I have a friend whom takes Clonodine and Flexiril (muscle relaxers) to help with his withdrawal symptoms.

Any input would be appreciated and I will most certainly keep you guys updated as to how I am feeling as I begin to come off of Suboxone....

Thanks!!!

PAINguin (No pun intented on the nickname, also sorry for any mis-spellings)


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:10 am 
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If you can get down below 1mg then the withdrawal is easier. I jumped off at about .25mgs and the withdrawal was really nothing major. I didn't miss work or anything - it was no worse than having a mild cold.

I took clonidine during my taper a few times and found it helpful, though it is very sedating so that might exacerbate your problem with excessive sleeping. After I stopped the Sub I had trouble sleeping so I took ambien for a few nights and that really helped.

Have you seen a doctor about your sleep issues? Last winter I was really fatigued, kind of like what you've described but I was also falling asleep during the day and when I was driving home frome work and stuff. I thought it was the Suboxone or that I was just depressed but it turned out that my thyroid was underactive and I also had a serious vitamin D deficency. Once I got that fixed I was much better. Such a low dose of Sub shouldn't be making you that tired.

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 Post subject: Thanks for the response
PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 2:56 am 
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Diary of a Quitter wrote:
If you can get down below 1mg then the withdrawal is easier. I jumped off at about .25mgs and the withdrawal was really nothing major. I didn't miss work or anything - it was no worse than having a mild cold.

I took clonidine during my taper a few times and found it helpful, though it is very sedating so that might exacerbate your problem with excessive sleeping. After I stopped the Sub I had trouble sleeping so I took ambien for a few nights and that really helped.

Have you seen a doctor about your sleep issues? Last winter I was really fatigued, kind of like what you've described but I was also falling asleep during the day and when I was driving home frome work and stuff. I thought it was the Suboxone or that I was just depressed but it turned out that my thyroid was underactive and I also had a serious vitamin D deficency. Once I got that fixed I was much better. Such a low dose of Sub shouldn't be making you that tired.


Thanks for responding, it's funny you should mention HypoThyroidism. I had some blood work done about 2 years ago and the doc said I may have hypo thyroidism. A test 6 six months later proved otherwise, but you know how that goes. I should have blood work done again.

I just need to go to my parents house and lay in the bed for a week withdrawing. It may not be easy, but someone would be there to take care of me. As childish as it sounds, for a grown man, it would help greatly if I had some people there supporting me and understanding what opiate withdrawal really is.

I've been taking multi-vitamin's for a few weeks now. It seem to help, but I get to about 3 days into withdrawal and I can't stand it any longer and end up taking a small piece of Sub. I break the 8 mg tabs down into 1/8ths and that's what I've been taking for a while.

So, do you think that I should ask my doctor for Clonodine to aid with the withdrawals?

Thanks,

Dave


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 3:46 am 
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That's why your not a doctor. So I wouldn't worry about how many mgs other people are taking. Take care of yourself and don't judge people


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 2:43 pm 
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Dude, you do not need to lay in bed for a week to detox. Quit psyching yourself out. In fact, lying in bed is probably the worst idea because all you will have to do is think about feeling shitty.

Like I said above, get down to at least a half a mg before you quit. If you look in the Stopping Suboxone section of the forum I have a long detailed thread about how to get your dose down low enough to quit without a lot of withdrawal symptoms. You've been on Sub for 3 years, you can wait another month or so to get your dose down to a low enough point that you'll be able to manage your withdrawal easily. Just be patient and stop telling yourself how hard and impossible this is, because it really isn't.

Clonidine helps with some withdrawal symptoms like sweats, chills, insomnia - basically things that are caused by your sympathetic nervous system being out of whack. But it's really sedating so I only took it a few times. The things that helped the most were exercise, hot baths, kombucha tea, and laughing. And staying busy is good too.

Try to keep a positive attitude about tapering. It's good practice cause you're gonna need a good attitude to stay clean when life hands you lemons.

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 Post subject: You're Right....
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:55 am 
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You hit the nail on the head... Years ago, before I knew exactly what withdrawal was, I came off of Oxy's with very little problems. I was taking about 160 mg/day on average. And when I thought that it was time to stop I did, I had the shakes, couldn't sleep, sweating, muscle spasms, etc, but I did it.

Today, however, I have built this up in my head so much that I have destined myself to fail. It is all in my mind...

I have actually been taking 1 mg or less for about 9 months now. Sometimes I will take a crumb more but that's it. I basically am breaking my 8 mg tablets down to the point to where it turns to powder.

Should I just quit taking Suboxone now that I am at that level or should I take it one day and not the next for a week or so?

I am ready to get off of Suboxone, I know that it IS causing my sleeping problems. It may not happen to everyone but it is happening to me and I am going to lose everything I have in life if I cannot get my sleeping problems in check.

I'll be checking the forums frequently. Look forward to your response.

Dave


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 2:15 pm 
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You could just try not taking your dose and see what happens. If you go a day or a day and a half or three days and you totally feel like you just can't handle it, then take a dose. If you feel like you'll be allright then just don't take it.

When I stopped I hadn't done the every-other-day dose. But I knew that if I needed to take a dose I could, and that was comforting. It just wasn't that bad so I never took it.

You never know, you might be suprised by how well you do. Just know that if quitting from the dose you're on now proves too difficult, then you can just skip days until you're ready. I know people who stopped using that method. They just stretched the time between doses longer and longer until they were ready to stop. And if it doesn't work, then you can try getting your dose lower by the liquid method.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:51 pm 
I was just going to add real quick - I had my regular Subox doctor appointment today and we discussed tapering and discontinuing Sub. I told him that I had reduced my dose to 4 mg/day. He was fine with that but cautioned me to really take my time. I've been on Sub for a little over 4 months. I reassured him that I'm not in a hurry, that I just don't want to take any more medicine than I really need, and since I had no significant trouble with the reduction I'm good with it. He agreed.
He was on Suboxone himself for about 3 years. He said he was on 32mg/day for the first two years. Wow - big dose, huh? Anyway, he said he had no trouble getting down to 8mg/day, but slowed way down after that and took a year to do the rest of the taper. He said he got down to about 1mg/day and from there he did exactly what DOQ suggested above: he skipped days here and there. He told me he had no specific 'plan' just did it as his body/brain directed him until all of a sudden he realized he hadn't needed anything for a couple of weeks, at which point he said he figured he was done!
I thought that was a pretty good story! I think for me, that type of taper will probably end up being the best. Otherwise I fear I'll psych myself out and feel symptoms just because I think I should!!
Anyway, I'm just gonna chill out on my 3-4mg/day, enjoy the holiday season and when I get to my six-month point, think about trying another dose reduction. I've got a pretty good thing going and I don't want to mess it all up by getting in a hurry!
Painguin - If your goal is to be off Sub, you can do it if and when the time is right! Don't pressure yourself unnecessarily! That's what my good doc told me and it was good advice!


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:04 am 
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Hi there, and for my 2 cents...Take your time, if your doing fine then why is it everybody wants to get off so bad? I'm happy that I have suboxone, it truly saved me, and i'm taking my time with it. My taper will be a natural one, since I've never been good with rules I'm just going to do what my body tells me to do. And be careful, try going on to the "members" part of this forum and scroll down the list and take a good look at how many people joined, and never posted, or maybe posted 1 time. Where did they go? Back to using? Away from treatment? My point is be careful, and don't worry about it too much, if your ready then it should be easy, right?

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 Post subject: A response...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 11:59 pm 
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For all of you posting I really appreciate it. :D
Keep em' coming!!!

To answer the question of "why" I wish to come off of Suboxone I will tell you this. I have been on Sub for about 3 or so years now. I have always been an excellent patient having never failed a drug test or missing an appointment. It is to the point now to where I walk into my docs office with no appointment, say "Hello, how's it going?" and let him know I need my meds. Most of the time I don't even have to go in, he will just call it in for me.

I have been on the same low dose of 1 mg to 1.5 mg /day for about a year now.

I kind of got off track there but the reason I want off of Suboxone is because it is causing me to sleep through alarm clocks, phone calls, etc. I've lost 3 jobs in the past 2 years due to this problem and there is nothing I can do about it. Sometimes I can go to sleep at 9:00pm and still not wake up until 7:00pm the next day. This happens at least once a week. The problems are that I have lost 3 jobs in 2 years and that the house could be on fire and I wouldn't even hear the smoke alarm.

I have 2 extremely loud alarm clocks in my room. Sometimes they will go off for hours until someone else comes in my room and turns them off.

This morning, I woke up at 10:30 am (which is freakin' early for me) because I had to go to a third interview for a new job. If I get the job I will end up losing it if my sleeping pattern does not improve. But, back to this morning, it was sooooooooo hard just to get up out of the bed. I barely had the energy to do so... It is Suboxone that is causing the problem, I know it is because I have experimented with it to see if it was why I was sleeping so much and it was.

My girlfriend (last years girlfriend) was put on it by my doc and she started sleeping the same way I did. When you stopped taking it (cold turkey) she didn't sleep that way any longer.

I think that the method of tapering mentioned in the previous posts may just work for me. I have 5 x 8 mg suboxone tablets left in my script. I can get them filled and then try the taper. If I keep the mindset of knowing I CAN take a dose if I NEED to then perhaps I will not psych myself out. Which is what I have been doing, psyching myself out...

Thanks again all and please keep the responses coming. Opinions are always welcome, rather they are good or bad. I believe you can learn something from everyone, even if they do not agree with you...

I'll post again soon!

PAINguin [i] :?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:07 am 
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Testing, testing.... How do you like the avatar? :lol:
I really do give a damn though... :wink:

PAINguin

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:12 am 
I love the new avatar! Gave me a good chuckle when I woke up this morning!


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 Post subject: when to quit Sub.
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:28 pm 
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Well the answer is there is not one. Everyone is different. Everyone knows their time. I firmly beleive that one needs to be on sub for an equal amount of time that they were previously addicted. Today is Day 9 for me without sub. I was on it for 4.5 years. Had a doctor that didn't care if you were on it the rest of your life and truthfully i can see both sides of that story. Anyway, I was told initially to take as much sub as i needed to not feel any w/d's and that would become my dose. Unfortunately, my doctor started me out at like 12mgs. 4.5 years ago when i started there was maybe ONE site out there with a forum for sub users; it was brand spankin new in the states or new enough there was little chatter yet. One of the overwhelming beliefs of many users at that time was "less is more". Don't take anymore than you have to was constantly stated. So i heeded the advice and was quickly down to 10mgs in a few weeks and then 8-10mgs a few months later. I then stayed at 4-8mgs for the next three years. The last year working my way down to 2 mgs a day and then a few months at 1-1.5 mgs and then the final month at <1mg then about .5mg the final week, and then stop. The last drop was pretty hard. Tons of fatigue and sluggishness. Here i am at day 9 without. Still having issues with fatigue but it gets better seemingly a little everyday. Days 2-5 are the worst. The restless legs and arms are horrid lyng there at bedtime. Its almost this overwhelming feeling of needing to strtech but you cant. Lots of fatigue, demotivation, and general malaise, but its not as bad as i thought it might be. It sucks but it does get better. Get to .5mg for the fiinal week and then jump. A slow taper is defintely the key.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:32 pm 
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Where did you get that avatar? is there a site or did you design it yourself?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:56 am 
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Yes, again, thanks for the replies... I quite enjoy logging on to the forums to see what everyone is thinking or has said since I have not been online...

Today was another bad day, I was supposed to drive back down to Charleston but I slept until about 6:00pm. At that point it was already dark. I didn't go to bed until 3:30 am or so last night but none the less. When I was younger I could stay up late and get up whenever I needed to.

Suboxone may have saved my life in one aspect, but it is destroying it in another. That is why I find it so imperative for me to come off of it. I came off of it once before without putting any thought into it. Now, as we have talked about before, I have psyched myself out to the point to where I dread even thinking about coming off of it.

I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired, yes, a phrase we all have probably heard. Going on Suboxone was trading out one addiction for another. The difference? At first it seemed like I switched from one opiate that produced euphoria to one that simply leveled me out and prevented withdrawals. If you're going to be on a drug why not just take the one that makes you feel good?

Well, because Suboxone does not sedate your CNS nearly as bad as Oxycodone or Heroin would.

I believe I am going to try and stop this Monday. I am going to use the 10 mL of water to 1 x 8 mg Suboxone taper trick introduced here on the site.

I'm going to take myself down to .5mg and jump off the deep end at the end of the week.
If that doesn't work then I will try this approach a bit slower...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

About the avatar, I used to use it on a forum I was a member of some time ago... There is an entire site with thousands of avatars in it... But, if you go to google and type in "Don't Give a Damn Avatar" then you will be able to find several sites with it.

I'm glad you all like it, I think it's pretty damn funny. Lol :D



PAINguin

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:15 pm 
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So, I'm going to try and quit taking Suboxone this Monday. I'm down to 1 mg or less so I'm just going to try it cold turkey. I've done it before but I did not have it built up in my head to be so bad. This time, I'm going to remain positive and if I can make it for at least 5 days I think I will be home free!!!

What do you guys think of me doing this? Bad Idea? Good Idea?

Tell me your thought....

Sincerely,

PAINguin

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 Post subject: Today was my first day.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:05 am 
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Well, today was my first day without sub. Didn't really have any issues concerning withdrawals but it's only the first day. I'm quitting after being on about 1 mg for 2 months or so. Having trouble sleeping tonight, but will probably pass out soon. Just have to see what happens, I start a new job next Monday and I cannot be in withdrawal for that so hopefully I'll be good to go. If not then I will do what I have to do, Suboxone is not a bad thing I just would like to be medication free.

Although, with this new and exciting job ahead of me I may find some peace in my life and having something to do everyday certainly makes life easier.

I'll keep you guys posted as I go.

Later!

PAINguin

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 2:45 pm 
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You can do it!


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 3:56 pm 
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Hang in there Painguin I'll be cheering for you. The biggest thing that has helped me in the past while in withdrawal is try to keep moving and keep a positive attitude as difficult as it may be. I really think DOAQ has a point about how powerful our minds can be in determining how we feel. Let us know how you're doing :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:55 pm 
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Painquin, I also think you can do it!! I have tried jumping before twice. My symptoms did not hit until 3-4 days after the last dose. I am going down to .25 then .25 every other day this time. Ask your physician if there are any medications he/she can prescribe you to make the jump as comfortable as possible. There are several can achieve this. Best of luck! Positive thinking.


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