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 Post subject: quitting sub
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 11:56 pm 
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pls dont hate what im about to say but just throwing out something i heard today from someone i met...
met a guy who told me that he was addicted to oxy for 4 yrs and was put on subutex and tried to quit sub so many times and relized it was to hard for him. he tried to get off even going down to the lowest doses and wanted off the stuff..... he wwas on sub for a year and couldnt take it anymore wanted to be drug free.....
so one day he had enough and decided to quit.... now the way he told me he quit finally was prob a way people are against but he told me it worked.....HE TELLS ME ANYWAY that he has been drug free over 8 months now....

HE QUIT by doing the following:
he jumped at .05 then the next day took a low dose of vicoden enough just to make the withdrawls adease.. took every 6 hrs just enough(unless he slept for longer) for 10 days then jumped off the vics(just short enough so he wouldnt be addicted to the vics) and then when the vics wore off he was still sick but not crazy sick just like MINOR sick symptoms and then a couple of days felt just a bit sluggish.....
no idea if this is the truth but he swears to it and says will never touch sub again.....
also he said he took craazy vitamins and drank boost threw the whole thing.......
do u think this is true or he is bullshitting. pls dont critique me as im just letting u know what he told me....... :shock:


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 12:50 am 
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oh and he said he took a valium to sleep the first 3 nites to sleep then xanax the next 3 nites to sleep then ativan the next 3. then all he needed was melatonin to slee not to get addicted by the benzos......


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:56 am 
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MES, I don't doubt that the process worked for him. There are countless ways people can detox. People go to Thailand to joint a camp where they're forced to vomit for 30 days, and some even get clean from that. It doesn't matter how a person gets clean, what matters is whether they're determined enough to do it.

What I'm trying to say is, people can get clean through all sorts of ways. Recommending that people take Vicodin to ease the withdrawal is dangerous. It may have worked for your friend, but I tell you, 99% of people couldn't control their vicodin dosing in the middle of withdrawals. It's a very dangerous suggestion, and a recipe for relapse for most addicts.

I've been watching your posts for the last few days MES, and I don't want to sound blunt, but it seems you're fixated on finding "shortcuts" to get off opioids. All opioids, including suboxone, are a challenge to get off. And there are no shortcuts! It's one of those things a person can't cut corners with, or take "drugs" to cure. As long as you keep looking for these shortcuts, or drugs to cure your addiction, especially ideas like this, IMO (and I don't want to be blunt) you're not yet at the stage in your recovery to consider getting off Suboxone. That being said, I don't know you in person. I'm just going based on the things you have posted.

All the best. And seriously, don't self-administer Vicodin to help you detox - or should I say, retox.


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 Post subject: urgh
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:34 pm 
ME-

I saw another message asking people to return to this post to let you know if you thought that 'your friends' way of getting off Suboxone was 'bs.' Tearjerker had a great response and I have to second everything he said. I also have noticed that you are looking for an 'easy,' yet very elaborate way to get off of Suboxone. The best way to get off Suboxone in my experience is to slowly titrate off of Suboxone only. In my experience, when people are gung-ho to very quickly get off the medication ASAP, these are the people that may not really be ready to do so. When people VERY slowly and comfortably as possible taper off the med, they are given a chance to reacquaint to abstinent life slowly. It's not just BANG, opioids one day, none the next, start living life completely abstinent! Suboxone IS an opioid and the major difference is that it can be slowly tapered, which is something that most opioid addicts can't do with other opioid drugs. People get on Suboxone as a very long-term or indefinite maintenance therapy or, again, because it is a medication that can be successfully tapered in and of itself (without the "help" of vicodin, tramadol, percodan, valium, xanax, ativan, etc..) This gives us the opportunity to, like I said, slowly reacquaint ourselves to abstinent life IF that is our ultimate goal. 'Your friends' method was much more complicated and probably as successful in the long run as just stopping Suboxone cold-turkey would have been, in my opinion.

-Travis


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 7:34 pm 
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I agree with the above posts. You said he stopped sub at .05...that's a REALLY REALLY REALLY low dose. I'm at .5 and he was ten times lower! I've heard of people walking off a dose that low and not feeling any more that a head cold for a couple days.
In my opinion he didn't need the Vic's. it takes time and a lot of patience to get to a dose that low...have you started to taper?


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 Post subject: To Mes
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 9:05 pm 
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Hi Mes,

I have no reason to doubt your friend. I say this for two reasons:

1. Everyone has read multiple horror stories on various websites about getting off suboxone. Months and months of withdrawal followed by horrible paws. These stories seem to outnumber the easy withdrawal from sub by at least 50:1.

2. Everyone also remembers their first withdrawal, usually from something on the weak end of the totem pole like codeine or hydrocodone. So it's easy to think "hey, I know I can do the three day hydro withdrawal, but no way can I do the months long sub withdrawal."

Also, you can find multiple bulletin board postings (not on this site) about creative ways to get off sub. People have used meth (amphetamine, not methadone), dmx, darvocet, etc. Just about anything you can think of to try and get off sub.

That said, we all have different addiction histories, different brains, and what works for one will not work for everyone. I agree with the others here, why not try a long slow taper to a very low amount first? You can always look for alternative methods if that doesn't work.

My plan is to stay on sub until they invent the magic pill. The benefits definitely outweigh the negatives at this point.

Take Care
Jimmy


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 8:53 am 
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ya like every one expl- here'. we want the fire to cool off a bit". so we move our hands farther from it.
but are hands start getting to cold' so we move are hands back closer to the fire to worm them up again
with out getting burnt because we are aware of getting burnt.
are adiction makes us blind" in how we control our (HANDS).
the being on subs" we learn to be patient and try to see the lite. that is already in are site to see.
h'm am i a poet" and don't no it :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:03 am 
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hope i'm not didn't change any thing on your thread mes999? i'm just saying stay on sub's when your dam sure you don't get to close to the fire? that go's for me and every one. thanks


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 Post subject: Re: To Mes
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:51 am 
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Jimmy wrote:
1. Everyone has read multiple horror stories on various websites about getting off suboxone. Months and months of withdrawal followed by horrible paws. These stories seem to outnumber the easy withdrawal from sub by at least 50:1.


The same applies to any medication. Google any medication and there's at least 10 people complaining about how bad it is to every 1 who says something good about it.

The reason is... people who do well on treatments don't have a reason to go online and vent about it. They just go on living their life. It's only the people who have side-effects or problems that go online looking for answers, asking questions, or to just plain vent.

People who have had a negative experience are usually much more vocal & melodramatic than those who have done well.


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 Post subject: Re: To Mes
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:53 am 
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Jimmy wrote:
1. Everyone has read multiple horror stories on various websites about getting off suboxone. Months and months of withdrawal followed by horrible paws. These stories seem to outnumber the easy withdrawal from sub by at least 50:1.


The same applies to any medication. Google any medication and there's at least 10 people complaining about how bad it is to every 1 who says something good about it.

The reason is... people who do well on treatments don't have a reason to go online and vent about it. They just go on living their life. It's only the people who have side-effects or problems that go online looking for answers, asking questions, or to just plain vent.

People who have had a negative experience are usually much more vocal & melodramatic than those who have done well.

Quote:
My plan is to stay on sub until they invent the magic pill.


Don't hold your breath on that one.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:00 pm 
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I absolutely agree with Tear. It's not even just with medications. A person goes out to dinner and has terrible food and service, they will probably tell everyone they see not to go there for dinner because it is terrible. The same person goes somewhere else and enjoys their meal and has a good waitress chances are they are not going to tell everyone the run into about that experience. Look at tv, all we here about is the Lindsay Lohans of the world, do we ever hear about the celebrities that are doing good?

For whatever reason we as humans tend to be the loudest about the bad. I am the type that researches every med or procedure before I decide to do it and the stuff I come across winds up scaring the shit out of me. My Dr told me I have to be careful because of this and I am not getting the whole story, mainly the bad.

Sorry for the rant, this is just a subject I feel strongly about. It upsets me to think how many people could decide against a life saving treatment because they only hear the negative.


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 Post subject: Re: quitting sub
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:10 pm 
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MES999 wrote:
pls dont hate what im about to say but just throwing out something i heard today from someone i met...
met a guy who told me that he was addicted to oxy for 4 yrs and was put on subutex and tried to quit sub so many times and relized it was to hard for him. he tried to get off even going down to the lowest doses and wanted off the stuff..... he wwas on sub for a year and couldnt take it anymore wanted to be drug free.....
so one day he had enough and decided to quit.... now the way he told me he quit finally was prob a way people are against but he told me it worked.....HE TELLS ME ANYWAY that he has been drug free over 8 months now....

HE QUIT by doing the following:
he jumped at .05 then the next day took a low dose of vicoden enough just to make the withdrawls adease.. took every 6 hrs just enough(unless he slept for longer) for 10 days then jumped off the vics(just short enough so he wouldnt be addicted to the vics) and then when the vics wore off he was still sick but not crazy sick just like MINOR sick symptoms and then a couple of days felt just a bit sluggish.....
no idea if this is the truth but he swears to it and says will never touch sub again.....
also he said he took craazy vitamins and drank boost threw the whole thing.......
do u think this is true or he is bullshitting. pls dont critique me as im just letting u know what he told me....... :shock:


I would so not recommend this method. I stopped Sub a full two months before having surgery and then went on painkillers for a little over a week following surgery. I didn't take a high dose, other than the IV pain meds. However, it really set me back. My w/d symptoms, which had mostly disappeared, came back in decent swing after I stopped the painkillers. It was incredibly odd and fairly uncomfortable. Also, in between doses of painkillers, I started getting w/d symptoms. It was like my brain had been thrown a crumb and then threw a whole bunch of stuff at me to try to convince me to take more. I hated it. I don't know how short-acting opiates can help anything at all. Suboxone is way, way easier to stop taking, so long as you have the key ingredient: patience. You can taper as low as you want and you are not up and down all the time. The whole experience freaked me out to the point that I canceled elective surgery I was supposed to have not long after this non-elective one. I don't want anything to do with any painkiller/opiate whatsoever for a good while. Stay away!! That is my advice. Stick with the Sub and stick with it and you'll be fine. There truly are no short-cuts and the long way is much more pleasant. We don't need no stinkin' painkillers.

laddertipper

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First you take a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes you. ~F. Scott Fitzgerald


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:30 pm 
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Breezy_Ann wrote:
For whatever reason we as humans tend to be the loudest about the bad. I am the type that researches every med or procedure before I decide to do it and the stuff I come across winds up scaring the shit out of me. My Dr told me I have to be careful because of this and I am not getting the whole story, mainly the bad.


I did exactly that before going on Interferon... and wow did it just stir me up. I was having sleepless nights before I even started treatment. There were sites specifically done by people preaching how it should be banned, how it's inhumane, of how many people it kills.

Some guy who had a bad experience on Interferon has made it his life's mission to scare people off it, and compiled all these stories. Check this out: Interferon.ws

I've had some of those side effects, incl depression, manic psychotic symptoms, psoriasis, addiction relapse (though I'll take responsibility for that decision), even suicidal ideation at times. Yet the treatment has been the best thing I've done for myself for years. It's somehow affirmed to me the lengths I'm prepared to go to stay alive and to recover from the damage of addiction. Those sites nearly made me refuse treatment.

One thing sites like that refuse to show is how many people have been cured. It's all very one sided. And you're right, it angers me how many people considering getting treatment get stirred to a frenzy unnecessarily, and need to be talked down rationally.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:20 am 
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i have been reading some of them. and there not as in the negative about suboxone as much as they use to be.


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