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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 12:12 am 
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Hi guys, I'm new here, but not new to opiotes. IMy last shot of heroin HAS to be tomorrow morning, so if someone could please read this and reply like ASAP so I'm not totally screwed and wondering what to do I would REALLY appreciate it.

A little background...

Started with oxycontins 4 years ago, about 2 1/2 years ago switched to heroin. Went to residential treatment for 30 days about 7 months ago. Was doing great, got a job, new girlfriend, living in an oxford house, etc. Wasn't active in meetings/didn't get a sponsor, eventually I got the itch to get high "just for this one night", well the one night turned into an everyday thing again. So I've been back on heroin for about 4 months now, with a 5 day break where I went to Detox but relapsed within hours of being released. I really, REALLY need to quit now. I have to get a job because I am staying at home with my parents but am susposed to be out by the end of this month. If I find a job I MIGHT be able to push it back another month, regardless very soon if I don't quit heroin/find a job & place to live, I will be homeless sleeping in parks etc. and really don't want that. I'm also just fed up with this lifestyle, even if I had a place to stay permanently and could use if I wanted to, I don't want to continue this shitty life... excuse my language. I have a 2 year old boy that deserves a better Dad and just a multitude of reasons but I am more than ready to quit this demon of a drug that's completely ruined my life.

Anyways, here's the deal. I have 6 8 MG subutex and am going to use these to quit. I'm not interested in long-term suboxone or subutex use, I'm just trying to do like a week long rapid quit deal. Maybe eventually if I get insurance to make sure I stay off the heroin I will consider getting on subs thru a doctor long term, but right now I don't have that option, I just have the 6 subutex.

Basically my question is, what would be the best way to do what I am trying to do?

My current plan is to wait about 18-24 hours after taking my last shot of heroin (I shoot it up) before taking my first dose. I was planning on making my first dose 16 MG, then waiting 24 hours and taking 12 MG, then Day 3 taking 8 MG, Day 4 taking 4 MG, Day 5 taking 4 MG, Day 6 taking 2 MG and Day 7 taking 2 MG. Some questions/concerns:

- My tolerance to heroin all of a sudden over the last 2 weeks has shot up ridiculously. I went from being able to get a good rush off of a .1 (of a gram) to now I have to shoot .25 or .3 to actually get high and not just well. And I have to do that 3-4 times a day, so whereas I used to have a $20-$30 dollar habit a day now it's a gram ($85-$100 depending on who I get it from) habit everyday which is just unfeasable considering I have to steal or hustle to get everything I get basically. I'm from Portland, Oregon and we are known to have really good dope (the best in the NorthWest and some of the best on the West Coast at least). Considering all this, I'm thinking I'm gonna need 16 MG of Subutex to not be sick. What do you guys think? Too much? Just right? Obviously everyone is different and you won't know exactly but a guess works here.
- After taking each dose, do I wait 24 hours before taking the next dose, or is it longer? Or even shorter maybe?
- Should I take my daily dose all at once, or space it out over the day? For example, if I want to take 16 MG one day, should I take it all at once or should I take 8 MG in the AM and 8 MG in the evening?
- If I make it 7 days without doing any dope and stick to this plan, will most of my withdrawals be gone and I can just go without anything everyday and feel alright?

If you guys could either answer my questions or just tell me the best way to rapidly quit heroin with 6 8 mg Subutex ASAP I would appreciate it vastly. To be honest I'm scared shitless and really just want to do this the best possible way so I can quit this awful awful drug, get a job, avoid being homeless and start going back to NA meetings and do things right this time around. Thank you guys SO much, I know I'm new here and I'm not trying to be demanding at all I just REALLY need some help. Hope to hear back soon.

Also, if I posted this in the wrong section I'm really sorry, I didn't know where to post it.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 7:23 am 
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Hi socopro and welcome to the forum. As you seem to be aware, we don't really recommend people playing their own doctor with suboxone as you plan on doing. It's just more addictive behavior. We addicts are really good at thinking we can be our own doctors. That said, I know I can't change your mind, so I'll help you out as much as I can.

First, Google the COWS worksheet. That will help you to determine when you should take your first dose of suboxone to avoid precipitated withdrawals. You need to be in mild-to-moderate withdrawals.

Second - 16 mg might be too much. I'd suggest you start out with something like 4 mg, wait and see how you respond, then take more if you're still in withdrawals. Suboxone is VERY strong, you'd be surprised. Keep taking more until your withdrawals are gone. That's the dose you can start out with. At least that's the way it's done at a "normal" induction. This way you work your way up to the proper dose, instead of starting out with a high dose when it might be too much.

Yes, you can dose once daily, meaning you can wait 24 hours between each dose.

When you use suboxone short term for detox purposes only, you still need to taper down, just rather quickly. Suboxone is still an opiate and you're essentially using it to be able to wean yourself off opiates, because it's pretty much impossible to do that with your DOC.

Once you're stabilized at say, 12 mg, stay there for a few to several days, then you want to start dropping your dose. Continue doing this until you're done. You might still have some withdrawals, just know that.

There are no standard set of rules or instructions for short term detox tapers - everyone is different. But I hope this helps you some. Feel free to ask if you have more questions. GOOD LUCK!

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:58 pm 
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Hi Socopro,

How you doing? Hat covered alot of the things I was going to say. So if you are really planning on using the 6 x 8mg tabs then if i were you i would take 4mg when you are in withdrawls. I too am a heroin addict and for me my withdrawlas have kicked moderately in after about 18 hours. So take 4mg and see how it makes you feel after about 30-40 minutes. If you are then feeling comfortable i would wait another 12 hours then take the next 4mg. maybe if you found the first 4mg wasn't holding you then take the next 4mg ealier than waiting 12 hours.

it really depends on you and your body and what level of tolerance you have.

So take as little as you need to be comfortable, and perhaps because of the long half life of suboxone, then wait as long as possible in between doses (if you've only got the 6 tablets to play with).

I really feel for you and totally get what you are going though. Heroin is the f**king devil and i wish i had never stumbled across it.

Hope you get through this and perhaps when you feel a little straighter you may be able to get to see a doctor for long term treatment. i live in the UK so i don't really know or understand much about drug services in the states, but if I am honest i know I wouldn't be able to kick my habit with just 6 tables of suboxone. The easy part for me is taking the tablets and that sorts out my sickness, sweating, anxiety, yawning vomiting etc. they do help the craving to some extent. but i am still fighting everyday to not go out and score some gear. you know what its like. I find I have a few weeks or so where i am really good and stay clear of H, and then i end up slipping and go through a few weeks of using a day here and a day there. i hate it so much. but you just have to keep going.

anyway please come back and let us know how its going.

good luck x C x


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 Post subject: short taper detox
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:30 pm 
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hi Socopro--

I read your post the other day and actually have been wondering if you have started your detox yet and how you are doing. My sub doc (a psychiatrist who is also the medical director of a rehab center) has told me that she has helped many heroin addicts detox using suboxone for about 4 days. But I have no idea what kind of dosing she recommends for that kind of short-term detox. I do think it would be better if you had a doctor to advise you, but since you don't, I hope you will be able to succeed on your own anyway. As Hatmaker mentioned, buprenorphine is very strong. It sounds like you have a fairly high tolerance to heroin now, but I want to tell you that in my experience, even less than 1 mg of suboxone (literally just a crumb of a tab) keeps me out of withdrawal, at least the physical effects. Since you only have 6 tabs, if I were you I would try to take as little as possible. About how long to wait after your last use of heroin before trying the sub--the important thing there is that you should be experiencing moderate withdrawal--there is no exact number of hours on that. Waiting at least 24 hours is a good idea, or at the very least 12 hours, but the main thing is that you must already be in withdrawal, otherwise the sub could set off precipitated withdrawal, which is said to be absolutely hellish--much more sudden and intense than regular withdrawals, and there seems to be nothing for precipitated withdrawals other than to wait it out (usually 24 to 48 hours, but sometimes longer). Please be aware I'm not a doctor or other kind of medical professional, but if I were you, I'd try to wait at least 24 hours after my last use of heroin, and then I'd try taking somewhere been 0.5 and 2 mgs of sub. Then wait to see how you feel in about an hour. If you are still suffering withdrawal after an hour, I'd take another 1 or 2 mgs of sub and then wait another hour, and I'd keep doing that up to 8 mgs. I really bet that 8 mgs would be more than enough to take care of the withdrawal. Sub also lasts a long time, so, if i were you, I'd try not to dose again until I started feeling withdrawal symptoms again, and then, I'd try to dose at least a little LESS than whatever it took to cover the withdrawal symptoms on the previous dose. Honestly, you might find that you could feel fine with only a very low dose taken every 2 or maybe even 3 days. So that is what I'd try to do if I were you, stretch it out at very low doses and also try to get by on less and less at each subsequent dosing. You just might be surprised at how well sub really works. This is what I've found anyway, but the problem for me is that at too low a dose I still get really powerful cravings, and also, in order for sub to have the effect of blocking other opiates, you need to be above the ceiling level. That is one reason why a quick detox doesnt' work for everyone. but if you are really seriously done with using heroin, I think it is worth trying anyway, since you have the 6 tabs of subutex and you really want to quit using. I wish you luck. But...if you find you can't stay off heroin, I hope you can find a way to get yourself into sub treatment with a doctor who can help you either try again to do a short term detox, or consider going into longer-term sub treatment. It's way better than continuing to use heroin, that's for sure.
Whatever happens, I'm hoping you'll post again soon and let us know how you're doing. Again, good luck!


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 7:26 pm 
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i went through this type of switch about 17 months ago.# 1 is good. #2 is good. but i think autononymous is on the spot!
i would pick #3.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 10:57 pm 
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If it were really possible to kick heroin with 6 pills, don't you think everyone here would have done it?


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