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 Post subject: Re: Quitting Cig's
PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 11:55 am 
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Well, we're on vacay and the cig taper is kinda on hold. I hit 18 yesterday, I think? I have no idea where I'll end up today. As long as I remain below a pack, I'm good with that. When we get back, I'm going to hit 15 and go from there.

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 Post subject: Re: Quitting Cig's
PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:15 pm 
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Ey man. Your just proving all of the smoking statistics right!!! ugggh . Suck it up buttercup. Go atleast a week


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 Post subject: Re: Quitting Cig's
PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:17 pm 
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hope you're having a great vacation, and I just wanna say how awesome it is that even though you're on vacation, you're still here posting and providing support and encouragement to those who need it! Romeo rocks! hope you're having a wonderful time on your well deserved vacation. get plenty of r&r, :-)


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 Post subject: Re: Quitting Cig's
PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:50 pm 
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So I used to smoke clove ciggies. At the height of my habit I think I smoked maybe 4 a day. I still smoked some now and then when I'd go out with some girlfriends. And then President Obama banned flavored smokes, like those cherry flavored cigarillos, etc. Clove cigarettes were included in that ban. I was mostly happy about that because I knew I couldn't indulge in that bad habit anymore.

Fast forward to last weekend. I'm driving through New Hampshire and I get gas at a little podunk gas station that doesn't even take credit cards at the pump. I have to go in to pay and what do I see behind the counter? Cloves!!! I asked if the law had changed and he sheepishly admitted that it hadn't. I was sooooo tempted to buy a pack! But my husband and son were sitting in the car and I didn't want to take a chance of disappointing them by getting caught with a pack.

That was my recent brush with almost smoking!

Amy

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 Post subject: Re: Quitting Cig's
PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 1:44 pm 
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Way to go Amy! I guess that's what is meant by "playing the whole tape through" when we're thinking of doing something that could potentially be bad or unhealthy....? Applies to lots of potential bad choices we could make,& it works :-)


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 Post subject: Re: Quitting Cig's
PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 1:46 pm 
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Good job, Amy!!! I'll get there one day!!

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 Post subject: Re: Quitting Cig's
PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 2:56 pm 
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[quote="Romeo"]Good job, Amy!!! I'll get there one day!![/quote]

Now THAT's the Romeo I know and love :wink: Yes, you WILL get there...(one day soon!)

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 Post subject: "Cutting Down" cigs...?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:30 pm 
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Did you see what I did there for you?^^^^^^^^
Update please! How goes the taper caper?

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:38 pm 
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ButterFLYING! wrote:
Did you see what I did there for you?^^^^^^^^


You were nice to me for a change?

K, back from vacay and on track for 14 today!!

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 Post subject: Re: Quitting Cig's
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:57 am 
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I hit 15 yesterday!! I think that's the first time I hit 15?

Today I'm going to start skipping some two hours blocks and see how low that gets me. 15 or less is my goal for today!!

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 Post subject: Re: Quitting Cig's
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:25 am 
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you can do it Romeo! :-)


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 Post subject: Re: Quitting Cig's
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 3:55 pm 
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Skipped a couple of two hour blocks today. Should be able to fly in under 15. If I hit 14, that'll be half of what I was smoking just a few weeks ago. No wd symptoms that I'm aware of. Yippee!!

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 Post subject: Re: Quitting Cig's
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:56 am 
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Chiming in late hear and have yet to read entire thread, so forgive me if I cover any ground of which someone else has already contributed.

It's best to quit, but I post this information for harm reduction purposes. Also, switching to additive-free tobacco and carbon filters might help with cutting down, if ("if" is used only as I don't know for certain, even though I would lay all my money down on a bet, if conclusive evidence could be obtained somehow, that proves whether or not American cigs intentionally include additives that are known to increase their addictiveness) some of the additives in American cigarettes are intended to make them more addictive (its very odd that Big Tobacco isn't required to list the ingredients on the packaging of their tobacco products, unlike what is required for food and medicines),

Quote:
Smoking and lung cancer risk in American and Japanese men: an international case-control study.

Excerpt:

Rates of lung cancer in American men have greatly exceeded those in Japanese men for several decades despite the higher smoking prevalence in Japanese men. It is not known whether the relative risk of lung cancer associated with cigarette smoking is lower in Japanese men than American men...

[...]

The odds ratio (OR) for lung cancer in current United States smokers relative to nonsmokers was 40.4 [95% confidence interval (CI) = 21.8-79.6], which was >10 times higher than the OR of 3.5 for current smokers in Japanese relative to hospital controls (95% CI = 1.6-7.5) and six times higher than in Japanese relative to community controls (OR = 6.3; 95% CI = 3.7-10.9). There were no substantial differences in the mean number of years of smoking or average daily number of cigarettes smoked between United States and Japanese cases or between United States and Japanese controls, but American cases began smoking on average 2.5 years earlier than Japanese cases. The risk of lung cancer associated with cigarette smoking was substantially higher in United States than in Japanese males, consistent with population-based statistics on smoking prevalence and lung cancer incidence. Possible explanations for this difference in risk include a more toxic cigarette formulation of American manufactured cigarettes as evidenced by higher concentrations of tobacco-specific nitrosamines in both tobacco and mainstream smoke, the much wider use of activated charcoal in the filters of Japanese than in American cigarettes, as well as documented differences in genetic susceptibility and lifestyle factors other than smoking.

_


source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11700268


*


So, as I'm sure anybody reading this knows, one can make their own filtered cigs with a machine (there are hand held ones for under 10 bucks, and fancy electronic ones that will spit out a pack in a matter of minutes that probably cost near $100 or more, and in between, some hand crank machines that work well, and cost about as much as a carton of cigs), using additive-free tobacco, such as American Spirit (which also includes a certified, organically grown, additive-free version), which is available in bags or cans, and carbon filter tubes. I feel safe in saying that anybody who does so, will they'll likely be healthier in sense of harm reduction, can save one money too by making their own, and might help with cutting down as well, as I strongly suspect some additives in premade American cig brands, are intended to increase the dependency liability for the smoker.

These are the best brand for carbon filter tubes, imo. Made by Gizeh in France. They also don't have the "fire safety" chemical added to the paper, like American cigs are required to have. If your local tobacco shop doesn't carry the Gizeh Carbon/Charbon filter tubes, ask if they will for you, or, order them on the internet, from a site such as this one (or wherever you can find the best deal):


Quote:


Gizeh Silver Tip, Carbon ("Charbon" in French) filter tubes: http://www.ryosupply.com/gisitipchcht.html

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Okay, more about "Fire safe cigarette" chemicals on the paper:


Quote:
Fire safe cigarettes create even more lung damage



Unfortunately, there is no good news. The other bad news is that the "safety rings" are made of an ethylene vinyl acetate copolymer emulsion based adhesive (carpet glue), which causes severe irritation of mucous membranes and the upper respiratory tract. Symptoms of this damage include a severe burning sensation, laryngitis, shortness of breath, headaches, nausea and vomiting. In other words, the speed bumps aren't only useless, they are compounding problems for smokers.

Of course, there currently are no regulations (and probably never will be) on ingredients in cigarettes, including ammonia and carpet glue. After all, who really cares if the "safety rings" are made with toxic glue, since everyone is already aware that there are 4,000 chemicals legally mixed into every cancer stick? In other words, what does it matter if cigarette manufacturers mix in a few more lethal chemicals, right? That just makes the grand total 4,010.

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/035880_fire_ ... amage.html




Anyway, the Japanese smoker study, cited in the beginning of this post, is very interesting, in that it seems to also be suggesting a possibility - unless I misread it (stats are not my forte) - that statistically, Japanese males who smoke, have less incidence of lung cancers, than the general population of males (including smokers and non smokers) in the USA? At very least it almost seems like it wants to conclude that one population (male Japanese smokers) have a much lower incidence of cancer, that the other population (males American smokers). I tend to doubt the mentioned speculation on a genetics factor as a cause, really, as they haven't had smoking in their culture for a very long time compared to the West.

Lifestyle is mentioned, and I can see that as a factor, in that their diet, which includes lots of seafood and more fruits and vegetables (anti-oxidants, etc.) than the average American eats, contributes to them having healthier immune systems to fight off cancer cells, which we all have in our bodies, just like we all have various germs that the immune system is always battling and cleaning up after.

And finally, their apparent use of cleaner tobacco - additive-wise - and their widespread use of carbon filters.

So, whether actively cutting down with the aim of stopping, or no immediate plans of stopping, please take the above information into consideration for harm reduction, and/or to possibly assist with stopping, as a switch to additive-free tobacco that might very well be less 'addicting' (<--- term used loosely; more like "tobacco with a lessened physical/mental dependance factor")

Edit: Clarification about general populations, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Quitting Cig's
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:00 am 
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Another study from pub med, to supplement the above study:

Quote:

Differences in the influence of tobacco smoking on lung cancer between Japan and the USA: possible explanations for the 'smoking paradox' in Japan.


Abstract
OBJECTIVES:

The prevalence of cigarette smoking among Japanese men has been consistently high compared with males in Western countries over the past 30 years. However, during the same period, the incidence and mortality rates for lung cancer have been consistently lower in Japan than in Western countries, which has been termed the 'Japanese smoking paradox'. The odds ratio/relative risk of cigarette smoking for lung cancer mortality and incidence for the same number of cigarettes smoked per capita in Japan have been lower than those in Western countries. This difference in the odds ratio/relative risk is likely to be the main reason for the Japanese smoking paradox. The aim of this study was to clarify the reason for the difference in the odds ratio/relative risk between Japan and the USA.

STUDY DESIGN:

Literature review to compare environmental, hereditary and other factors that may be related to lung cancer in Japan and the USA.

RESULTS AND CONCLUSIONS:

The main factors likely to have brought about the difference in the odds ratio/relative risk between Japan and the USA (and perhaps other Western countries as well) are: lower alcohol consumption by Japanese males; lower fat intake by Japanese males; higher efficiency of filters on Japanese cigarettes; lower levels of carcinogenic ingredients in Japanese cigarettes; and lung-cancer-resistant hereditary factors among Japanese males.


I suppose its a possible factor, but, I still tend to doubt the genetic hereditary factor, simply because the West has been exposed to and used tobacco products significantly longer than Asian Japanese populations.

---

Also, some google searching about Native American smokers (a population which had been using tobacco extensively, long before they introduced the West to tobacco) and lung cancer, turned up this essay, which cites two studies:

Quote:
Before leaving this subject, i.e., studies which don't bear out the smoking/lung cancer connection, it's worth mentioning a couple of studies that involve Native Americans. Some of the heaviest smokers (and drinkers) in America are to be found among the Native Americans. In fact, a 1992 study by the CDC showed that 39.5% of American Indians smoked, as opposed to 25.6% of the general population. Knowing this, I have been looking for some statistics on lung cancer among Native Americans.

Turns out there have been at least two such studies. The first was conducted by J.M. Samet, et al, of the University of New Mexico School of Medicine and published at Am J Public Health Sept., 1988, 79(9) 1182-86. The study dealt with both Hispanics and Native Americans. The authors concluded that in the study \ period (1958-82), "[in whites] age adjusted mortality rates from lung cancer and from chronic obstructive pulmonary disease increased progressively in males and females. Mortality rates for both diseases increased in Hispanics during the study period, but the most recent rates for Hispanics were well below those for Other Whites....in Native Americans, rates for both diseases were low throughout the study period, and did not show consistent temporal trends."

The second study was conducted by M.C. Mahoney, et al., of the New York State Department of Health, using data from Native Americans in upstate New York, during the time period 1980-86. It is published in the Int J Epidemiology, June, 1989, 18 (2) 403-412. The authors came to the same conclusion as Samet, et al. They stated that the principal causes of death among the Native Americans were TB, diabetes, pneumonia and cirrhosis. However, "fewer than expected malignant deaths occurred among both Native males and females [and]... A deficit of deaths was observed for colon and lung cancer deaths among Native males and for colon and breast cancer deaths among Native Females...".

In short, Native Americans smoke more than the general population but suffer from less cancer and, in particular, less lung cancer.


In the interest of fact checking, I found the two studies cited in the above essay, that make mention Native-Americans smokers:

The "J.M. Samet, et al, of the University of New Mexico School of Medicine", study:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3407816

The "M.C. Mahoney, et al, of the New York State Department of Health", study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2767854


Last edited by no_boop_shoo_be_doop on Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:12 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Quitting Cig's
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:07 am 
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That's a lot of carrying on^, but I like some science to back up my contentions. Quitting smoking is difficult, so while trying to do so (or if not), in the interest of harm reduction, I think its safe to say that using additive-free tobacco and carbon filter cigarette tubes, will reduce risks associated with smoking. One will have to make their own cigs, to use the products I have recommended, but doing so will likely not only reduce harm, but also save money.


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 Post subject: Re: Quitting Cig's
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:25 am 
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All of the above is intended for anybody who reads this thread. Sorry, don't mean to hijack your thread Romeo. What you are doing is great. But perhaps making your own (assuming you don't) might help you cut down more, since it's not as easy as just buying a pack of premades and pulling one out. AND, additive-free tobacco might help you with tapering down, since it seems obvious the devious tobacco companies add stuff to them, to make them harder to quit/more addicting.

Now that I've been on my soap box since discovering this thread, time to shut my yapper down (or more accurately, keyboard) and read the entire thing, next time I log on (I would now but lost track of time!)
I have to try to crash for about 5 hours and get up,.. have a dental app't in the early AM for a toofus cleaning!


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 Post subject: Re: Quitting Cig's
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:52 am 
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Boop, thank you so much for all that info, I read every word of it. I'm now thinking of moving to Japan. :wink:

Thanks for the tip on the "safer" tobacco and the carbon filter cigarette tubes . I'm going to look into it and see what I can find.

My brother in law is a farmer and one of his crops is tobacco. When they bring the tobacco to market, the best tobacco goes to some market I can't remember and he said the tobacco for cigarettes is basically what they sweep off the floor. When you stop and think about what you're inhaling, it's sickening, yet I still do it. Addiction!! And yes, I've read the cig companies use ammonia and other chemicals in cig's to increase the rate at which nicotine is absorbed into the body and the efficiency in which it's absorbed.

Anyhow, I hit 15 yesterday. Aiming for that or lower today.

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 Post subject: Re: Quitting Cig's
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:08 am 
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I forgot to mention this; since cutting back on cig's and eliminating my cig or two before bed, I sleep SO much better. Previously, I used to wake up through the night and had to get up and eat a bit before I could back to sleep, now I sleep right on through the night. Woo-Hoo!!

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 Post subject: Re: Quitting Cig's
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:51 pm 
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SO SO SO SO proud of you Romeo! 15 is a great deal less!!! Go Go Go!!!

Yeah, keep reading and learning as much as you can about cigarettes, cigarette companies, and what cigarettes do to your body. That should help keep you motivated and "knowledge is POWER!"

(Happy to see the mod's have not changed your thread name btw....I think they want you to "quit cigs" also!! :) )

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 Post subject: Re: Quitting Cig's
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:55 pm 
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Romeo wrote:
I forgot to mention this; since cutting back on cig's and eliminating my cig or two before bed, I sleep SO much better. Previously, I used to wake up through the night and had to get up and eat a bit before I could back to sleep, now I sleep right on through the night. Woo-Hoo!!

YES!!! Get that shit OUT of your BODY so it can FUNCTION properly!!!! SO happy you are already getting positive results!! Keep going!!! Who knows what "else" might start functioning even more properly next? (OK, now I didn't mean it THAT way. Geesh...you and JI always have your minds in the gutter! Grow up boys! LOL)

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