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 Post subject: Quitting after 3 months
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:25 pm 
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This is my first post on the suboxone forums although i have known about and frequented this website throughout the duration of my suboxone use.
Ill start out by explaining my Suboxone story.
I am 19 years old and used Heroin and OC 80's heavily for roughly 2 years before seeking help from a suboxone doctor. I was started out on 32mg of Sub daily for the first week-2weeks (which i believe was way too high), and have now tapered over a 3 month period to roughly 1-2 mg daily. In the beginning i loved suboxone and felt it had given me my life back but now i am sure that i want and need to get off due to the negative side effects it has brought into my life. The main one being serious depression and lack of interest in anything! All i do (besides work a few days a week) is watch tv and sit around the house. Nothing is fun or exciting anymore. Other but less serious side effects are Tooth damage, Headaches, And extreme difficulty breathing which has occured since the first day. But besides attending NA since i was started on Subs i feel i have grown alot as a person and am less unstable and less likely to relapse if i quit bup today than i was before. I am of course still very afraid of a serious Relapse but i have weighed it out and i think with the way my life is going it is worth quitting Suboxone. So i took my last 2 mg this morning and plan to sit it out old fashioned style and bear through the withdrawals Cold Turkey.

I plan to post everyday on how i am feeling and any new changes in physical and mental side effects. Anyone have a similar experience quitting? (Dosage,Duration,ETC?) I have heard everything from worst w/d ever to hardly affected me what so ever so i am skeptical to believe anything but i am very very scared for what may come, but i feel it is crucial to my life that i take this step right now before i sink any lower into this depression black hole sub has put me in. I am open to any comments or advice on helpful tips as far as nutrition/mental health and anything to get me through the hell that is sure to follow.

Thankyou so much
Austin


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:01 pm 
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Austin,

Well......good luck to you in this endeavor. I hope you do post about it every day. Some people have good experiences and some bad. I have to say that I am a bit concerned for you based on your post. Even at 1-2 mg that is a pretty high dose to jump off of. You say you are depressed or that you lack interest in anything. I have been there on suboxone. I am not sure it is actually the suboxone causing that. I mean.....something caused you to use in the first place. 3 months isn't really enough time to get to the heart of the problem and fix it. You also say that based on how your life is going you feel capable and ready to quit. My guess is that you feel that way BECAUSE of the suboxone and BECAUSE it is working. I don't know of any tooth problems that suboxone causes so I am not sure about that.

On the other hand, trying to quit isn't a bad thing. I did it and I learned a whole lot from it and my life has been a whole lot different since then too. From my experience, I will recommend that you have a plan in place where it is easier to go back on sub than to get high. If you don't, you could easily go get high and overdose and die which would not be a good thing. There is no shame in learning that it was too soon to go off of it and you should keep an open mind. If things work well, then this is wonderful. If they don't, allow yourself to accept that you have a disease that isn't curable overnight. It isn't your fault.

Let us know how it goes.

Cherie

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:28 pm 
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Welcome to the forum Money. I am glad that you have decided to not only read but to start to post along with us. Like Jack, I must say that I also have great concern over you stopping Suboxone so soon after starting it. I do not at all question whether or not you are feeling the way you are feeling or whether or not you are having tooth problems. I have no doubt those things are going on for you. What I do question is Suboxone being the cause of it. Especially when it comes to tooth issues, unless there is trauma involved, problems with the teeth often occur over time - a long time. Even if Suboxone was on the list of things that cause tooth decay or other problems, having only been on it for three months makes it that much more likely that the Suboxone is not the cause. It is much more likely that your teeth problems were underway long before Suboxone - perhaps for years.

Beyond that I am really afraid for you stopping at this point. Now, I could go on and tell you why I have those thoughts but what I would rather do is give you a paragraph that was just written by Dr. Junig. He has more knowledge and experience with addiction and with Suboxone than I likely will ever have for as long as I live. You may not want to believe or agree with me, but I can assure you that Dr. J knows what he is talking about. Here is what he just wrote a few days ago at Suboxone Talk Zone

The mistake most people make– addicts and their docs– is to stop buprenorphine too early. Several large studies show very clearly that buprenorphine treatment less than 6-12 months is almost always followed by relapse; there is now general agreement that buprenorphine should be continued for a year or more, and often indefinitely. I understand the desire to get off everything, but there is simply no going back to who we were, before we became addicted. Active addiction permanently changes pathways in our brain, and we cannot erase them any more than we can ‘forget’ how to ride a bike. What we hope for, during buprenorphine maintenance, is for the pathways that have become engrained in the brain to fade to some extent. Addicts learn, while using, to constantly gaze inward and focus on how they ‘feel.’ If there are unpleasant sensations or feelings, addicts learn to turn to a chemical to make the feelings go away. The goal on buprenorphine is for the person to learn the reverse– to stop constantly looking inward and instead direct our minds outward, and to learn to accept life on life’s terms. When we notice unpleasant sensations or feelings, we must learn to tolerate them and ignore them. Buprenorphine maintenance allows that process to occur– providing it is taken correctly.

I'll just let that stand on its own. You can read his entire post for yourself. Please just consider what he has to say about stopping your Suboxone so soon. I obviously wish you well with whatever you decide to do. Sometimes we have to take the lesser of two evils and when it comes to either active addiction or Suboxone, the later is certainly the better.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 7:08 pm 
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Hello again its me Austin posting my first report on quitting after 3 months cold turkey from 1-2mg.

First off thankyou to those who posted concerns and advice on my strategy to get off suboxone. I forgot to mention that sadly, another big reason i am choosing to quit is financial problems. Under my insurance Suboxone is very expensive and as a 19 year old living at home with dad we simply cannot really afford the monthly prescription rates any longer :(

Day 1 Report
(27 hours since last dose)
I slept fine last night in fact until about 11 oclock but immediately felt the slight effects already upon waking up. These included constantly teary eyes, yawning, and already pretty severe fatigue. When i get out of bed i feel an overall heavy feeling. But i was able to shower, run some errands around town, and eat 2 meals. I know because of the long half life of Suboxone that the really bad effects shouldnt start until tomorrow maybe even Sunday! Im just hoping they are some what bearable and that they do not last as long as some of the horror stories i have read (15-30 days). Ill continue to post my feelings and symptoms everyday until i feel normal again or cave in and get back on subs(God forbid)

Thanks
Austin


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:30 pm 
Hi money(Austin) :)

I am glad to hear your first day off sub was not too bad. Thats great and I hope you can do ok with your plan.

Although I am pretty new to the site and to suboxone (little over 3 months) I have learned a great deal on this site and gotten some great support. So some of the things I am about to write may sound mean, but I think they need to be said.

I am concerned about your reasons for wanting to stop sub. I know the money thing is really hard...I am lucky I get my subs for 20 dollars a month. But in your first post, you didn't even say that. You said sub has caused you to have "tooth damage, Headaches, extreme dificulty breathing," and lack of desire to do anything.

First of all, if you are really having "extreme difficulty breathing," you should be in a hospital. Do you have asthma? panic attacks? a blood clot in your lung" Those things cause extreme difficulty breathing, not Suboxone.
The poster donh already pointed out the tooth damage thing. Tooth damage does not happen in 3 months. I know suboxone can cause some headaches, but so can being thirsty, tired, hungry, or you could need some glasses......

I sort of wonder if your dose of suboxone is too low....at 1-2mg daily your brain is not getting the full effect from the medication. You said yourself that in the begining of your treatment you felt like you got your life back. Now you are feeling crappy....hmmmmm...I wonder if this could also be the reason for your recent depression and just sitting around the house. Furthermore, you just stopped using opiates that you have been on for 2 years! So you did 2 years of damage to yourself and are blaming your problems on 3 months of suboxone use.

I would encourage you to read the articles that Dr J writes on here. There is a special section (the name escapes me right now) where all his articles are posted. I learned so much from reading those...

I guess I feel like I have to defend Suboxone a little bit, since it has been such a helpful piece in my recovery. I just hate to see people blaming all their problems on Suboxone. I honestly wish you well Austin and hope you can get off of this medication if you really need/want to. Please keep coming back and posting about how you are doing, even if you have a bad day....There is some great support here. I know I will be looking to see how you are doing....Take care, Kiri


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 Post subject: Day 2
PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 3:17 pm 
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Hello again its me Austin reporting how i feel on day 2 (50 hours since last dose)
I woke up in the middle of the night with pretty severe RLS and hot flashes. I took a Clonidine which is prescribed along with my suboxone. and i was able to sleep a few hours.
Today i feel extreme fatigue and getting up to walk down the hall is a major task. My head and feet are extremely heavy feeling. Although i was able to eat some cereal this morning along with numerous gatorades and my vitamin b6 and l-tysorine supplement. I still fear that worse is yet to come, again because of the long half life of suboxone but i am going to try and ride it out for at least 10 days.
In regards to the last post on this topic, i am not at all "bashing" Suboxone, therefore you should have no reason to defend it. I am simply at the point where i am ready to live a drug free life Suboxone included. As far as the breathing difficulties, these had never occured before i went on suboxone treatment and in the Suboxone handout pamphlet it clearly states that this is a side effect and you should contact your doctor immideately. In my last appt. i brought this up and my dr. basically brushed over the topic and said i had nothing to worry about. Like many others i fear that i have the wrong dr. and that she cares little or nothing about my recovery.
Ill continue to report how my cold turkey detox is going. thanks for the support! :D

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 3:11 pm 
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Hello again its Austin, reporting after 74 hours since last dose of suboxone.
I tossed and turned quite a bit with RLS and Hot and Cold Flashes last night.
Managed to get a few hours of intterupted sleep.
Today i actually showered and walked up to the park near my house just to get a little physical activity in.
I am feeling a little better although i dont want to jinx it. Still have no energy meaning everytime i get up out of my bed or chair i get light headed and have to slam back down. This could be from the lack of food but i have been taking pottasium,l-tysorine, vitamin b-6&b-12, and a mens multi vitamin. Drinking gatorade and water constantlly.
More than my legs hurting is my lower back. i started using a heating pad yesterday which helps a bit.
The worst part is the mental insanity. Not having enough energy to leave your bed, but not being able to fall asleep. :evil:
I am hoping that somehow it gets better from here on out because i have work in 3 days and if im feeling like this i wont be able to go :( Idk who if anyone is reading my post anymore but thanks for the support

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 Post subject: People are reading
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 3:38 pm 
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Hi Austin, I just wanted to post and say, you can be sure some people are reading your posts. I dont' really have any advice, just well-wishes, for you, and I wanted to say that even though some people have expressed concern about you discontinuing sub, I think they truly are concerned about your well-being and just want you to consider that discontinuing sub right now is NOT your only option. either way, I hope you start feeling better soon. I too just think you should consider that you might want to take discontinuing the sub slower, or that if it doesnt' work out for you, you can consider getting back on it. As far as teh breathing issues you mentioned, I hope you are doing ok and not having any respiratory difficulties. I haven't heard of that being a side effect of sub, except, that if it's acting as an opiate agonist because you aren't at the ceiling effect, it can have the opiate effect of slowing breathing. I wonder it that's what was going on with you? i know it can take some time to stablize on sub and to find the right dose. I'm sorry if your doctor wasnt' much help with that, my doctor doesnt'seem to take dosage into much consideration which has been a problem for me. I also do understand how you want to be off drugs including off sub. So I wish you well with that, but just remember that cold turkey can be really difficult and it seems like a slow taper is really the more recommended method. Anyway, i hope you keep posting, I think there are people here who are with you, I hope that helps, I know it helps me to know that I'm not alone.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 1:24 pm 
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Hello again,
Last night was my wors night yet, tossing and turning, legs kicking, throwing the covers off, then shivering with goosebumps. I tried taking 2 of my prescribed klonidine and it gave me maybe an hour or so of sleep.
Today i ate a bowl of cereal along with my vitamin supplements and drank a few gatorades.
The main symptoms im having are an aching back and EXTREEEEEME fatigue.
Getting up and walking down the hall is a major task. This could be from the lack of eating or just the normal w/d symptoms.
I really cannot tell at this point if the worst is over and i am feeling any better. I hope that it turns around soon so i can get my life back. I have work tomorrow-Thursday and fully plan on getting the shifts covered by a friend.
My MAIN concern is that both parents are leaving from California where we live to Chicago for 2 weeks. Besides loosing my support system(besides my Biological father who is very very supportive) i will now face the temptation of making allllll better by making one simple phone call and buying a nice back of smack to make me feel good again. But at this point i trust myself as i would never want to go through this hell ever again, and i feel as though my entire future is somehow hinging on how i handle this upcoming week.
Thanks
Austin

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 12:20 pm 
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Hello again it is day 5 for me stopping suboxone cold turkey off of 1mg.
I actually was able to get 5-6 hours of sleep last night thanks to my clonidine and a little benzo.
I really think what let me get some sleep was the fact that yesterday i left my house went swimming at a friends and sat in the sunlight and walked around a little.
I truly believe that nutrition, a little excersise(once you are able to) and just getting up out of the same spot you have been kicking in for 3 days is the key.
I feel better today, and knock on wood, but i think the worst is over and that its all downhill from here.
I still am very very fatigued and winded when doing simple tasks and today for the first time i had some GI problems but a little immodium ad seemed to help. I reallllly hope i continue to feel better and this crappy feeling doesnt linger for tooooo long. Today i plan on walking or riding a bike for a while and then hitting the pool again. I still havent eaten much, besides cereal every morning, about 10000000 gatorades, and 6 Jamba Juice's.
Also i have been taking pottasium, b-6, b-12, and mens one a day and i think these have helped a little too.
For anyone out there that feels trapped on suboxone like i did, believe me when i say.
YOU CAN DO IT!!!!
My worst symptoms peaked at day 3 and ive felt better ever since, im not out of the woods yet but i just want to let everyone know it is possible to quit suboxone if you put your mind to it and are determined!
Thanks
Austin

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 1:06 pm 
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I'm glad you're feeling better. Good luck & keep us posted.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 11:16 am 
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Got very poor sleep last night (4 scattered hours) despite excercise and activity all of yesterday.
Physically im feeling much better and think the major symptoms are gone.
I think Running, Swimming, and proper vitamins has really sped up the recovery.
Today i am going to actually hit the gym to try and get some more of those "good feelings" from working out.
The only real problem besides the mental fatigue from insomnia is still a lacking appetite and an upset stomach with several bouts of dihareaha.
Other than that i am good and looking foward to each day ahead and feeling better and better.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:44 pm 
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That's awesome, I'm so proud of us! Look how far we've come. From being terrified of the w/d's to facing them head on and working through it, it's a really big accomplishment.

Don't worry, your appetite will return just fine. Mine is much better now, I had the exact same problem and it's def a lot better today. That walmart episode was the worst, but today it's not an issue. My only really bad symptom today are my knees are hurting, but that's probably just been a problem that I was able to cover up with the subs, I finally got my refill on Lyrica and it makes such a big difference. I hope I sleep, that will be a real accomplishment!

Hope you get some sleep.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 5:45 pm 
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Austin-
Where are you? Is everything ok?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 12:54 pm 
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Hello beautifully broken,
I am still pushing through this and havent taken a dose of suboxone in 11 days now. I just could not continue posting everyday, as i am trying to do anything to keep my mind off of the subject lol. Physically i am almost 100%, no more leg pain whatsoever, and only normal back pain.
I still feel a tiny bit of that overall heavy feeling but i think its more due to the lack of sleep ive been going thru.
My mental state is still a little down and shaky but MUCH more stable than days 1-7 which were terrrrrible mentally.
I just want to keep pushing until one day i wake up and feel better than i ever have before!
How are things going 3-4 days ahead of me? Does anything get dramatically better in the last few days?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 4:28 pm 
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YES, things do get dramatically better! I'd tell you that even if it weren't true ;) BUT IT IS, I SWEAR

Changes I've noticed in the last few days would include; my mental state has improved, even though I've not had the worst of time mentally, I totally cracked a few days ago when my husband came inside, dog in tow, saying "GD'it (insert my name here lol) your damn dog! The neighbor had to bring her back again! This is so embarrassing! YOU need to keep her in the GD house or get rid of her" ...laughing....sarcastically, even as I write this down because it was the open door I had been waiting for, the reason I needed to flat cuss somebody completely out and he was going to be the lucky recipient of EVERYTHING I had bottled up over all this bs. I started with "MY F***ing DOG?! and ended with "Your nosey mother is the reason for all my problems" LOL Well, I laugh now, but in the moment it wasn't funny. I could feel my adrenaline coursing through my body at a rate I haven't felt in a LONG time, I know the veins on the side of my temples were clearly visible. I almost felt my eyes wanting to pop out of my head, just so much anger and over what? idk, I think I just needed to scream in general really. My poor husband, he retreated to our bedroom for a couple of hours and I apologized to my poor baby yorki for that mean old wicked witch of the east! :( and later apologized to my husband for being a psychopath. I guess my long drawn out point is that I'm not %100 but I feel better every single day that passes.

Oh, my other symptoms; cold chills, My husband keeps the air on 72 and I think it's freaking cold in here so maybe it is. Also, theres my knee pain, I do however have fibromyalgia and I've always had occasional knee, neck and other misc pain, but it's been in full force I've needed heating pads and hot baths to fight the pain at times so basically any pain you may have had before opiates and subs you should expect to come back in full force for at least a little while. I know that's not good news exactly but for me it's just another layer I've revealed and I'm okay about the fact I might need to talk to my dr and get something going. NON NARCOTIC :)
Other than that I'm great, doing better every single day and you will too! Hang in there, it gets better. I've read a lot of storys on w/ds from subs online and so many people report not feeling %100 for about a month, NOT that your going to feel like shit until then just that it may take a month to get relief from all these side effects but you can expect to feel a little better everyday. Somedays just feel like your taking one step forward and three steps back but it's not the case, your going forward all the time, it's just the process.
I'm glad to know your still here and still pushing forward. I know what you mean about posting, sometimes you just need to forget about it. So, next time you go MIA I'll just wait a few days :)


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 5:07 pm 
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money11 wrote:
Hello beautifully broken,
I am still pushing through this and havent taken a dose of suboxone in 11 days now. I just could not continue posting everyday, as i am trying to do anything to keep my mind off of the subject lol. Physically i am almost 100%, no more leg pain whatsoever, and only normal back pain.
I still feel a tiny bit of that overall heavy feeling but i think its more due to the lack of sleep ive been going thru.
My mental state is still a little down and shaky but MUCH more stable than days 1-7 which were terrrrrible mentally.
I just want to keep pushing until one day i wake up and feel better than i ever have before!
How are things going 3-4 days ahead of me? Does anything get dramatically better in the last few days?


Hey I read your posts. I am on week 3 of no Suboxone, and I have to say that getting exercise and sunlight was my biggest savior. Initially I would just sit and watch TV or play video games. This made me miserable, depressed, and hopeless in that all I would do is think about opiates. Keep your head up and keep posting cause it helps those who are going through early stages of w/d. I read so many posts on this forum during my first week and it helps to see that there are others going through something horrible as well. Being able to relate to someone about something embarrassing or difficult is truly amazing. Peace


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 Post subject: Day 6 off subs
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 9:07 pm 
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The first day off it was a little rough but is nothing compared to heroin withdrawal. I am now on day 6 and have been eating and sleeping like normal. My only unusual symptoms are a stiff neck, and a pretty good headache for most of the day. I was on subs for 3 years at a very low dose and was a little scared after reading the horror stories. Today I actually pondered the thought that maybe some of the suboxone companies were having people post these nasty stories but maybe everyone really is that much different. I consider this a walk in the park so far compared to my past experiences with some pretty hardcore opiate use.


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 Post subject: Re: Day 6 off subs
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 9:50 pm 
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jojo1437 wrote:
The first day off it was a little rough but is nothing compared to heroin withdrawal. I am now on day 6 and have been eating and sleeping like normal. My only unusual symptoms are a stiff neck, and a pretty good headache for most of the day. I was on subs for 3 years at a very low dose and was a little scared after reading the horror stories. Today I actually pondered the thought that maybe some of the suboxone companies were having people post these nasty stories but maybe everyone really is that much different. I consider this a walk in the park so far compared to my past experiences with some pretty hardcore opiate use.


What dose did you happen to jump off at? Im on the eve of stopping at just under .5mg. Did you use the liquid method?


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 Post subject: Re: Day 6 off subs
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 10:22 pm 
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Rud2011 wrote:
jojo1437 wrote:
The first day off it was a little rough but is nothing compared to heroin withdrawal. I am now on day 6 and have been eating and sleeping like normal. My only unusual symptoms are a stiff neck, and a pretty good headache for most of the day. I was on subs for 3 years at a very low dose and was a little scared after reading the horror stories. Today I actually pondered the thought that maybe some of the suboxone companies were having people post these nasty stories but maybe everyone really is that much different. I consider this a walk in the park so far compared to my past experiences with some pretty hardcore opiate use.


What dose did you happen to jump off at? Im on the eve of stopping at just under .5mg. Did you use the liquid method?


I am not sure what the liquid method is but I was breaking slivers off of my 8mg tabs for about the last year and a half. If I had to guess between .50 and 1mg.


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