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 Post subject: Quite Upset :(
PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:40 pm 
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I don't know what's going on and after doing some research on how long some of the symptoms last... well let's just say I'm highly upset right now.
I'm reading all these heavy users got through their w/d's (physical) in just a little over a week.
I'm talking years and 100's of mg's a day (600 or more).
And they can get over the physical w/d's in a little over a week or two tops???

Why me only using percocet for 3 months only 25-30mg a day still am having w/d's after OVER 3 weeks or more.
The pain in my legs is primaraly what is killing me.
I'm taking everything in the handbook for opiate w/d's right now and I'm still having horrible aches in my legs.

I'm sorry for raging, but it's honestly not fair! They abused their medication for a long time at very dangerous dosages sometimes... yet I use it the way I was directed too and here I am still suffering with these leg aches still from 3 or more weeks.

What is going on... I'm so confused and upset... and starting to get a little depressed after all this research.

I'm also not trying to offend anyone, it's just merely ***ssing me off if you know what I mean.

Again thanks for the support/suggestions/comments.... and I'm sorry for ranting on about it but it's just got me down.


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 Post subject: sounds awful
PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:36 pm 
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Hi Immortal....

I really feel for you....you have every right to be pissed off. That is a lot of suffering. I have never had the leg pain thing in my w/d...but have w/d from fentanyl which for me was the worst. even methadone was easier as i went from methadone 75mg, off 6 days, then to sub. But fentanyl when I was taking A LOT? No way could I stay away from it....I needed it to feel normal.

So, back to you...sorry....Maybe more info would give us ways to help you. Age, any other medical stuff going on, other meds you take? describe your pain more...do you wake up with it? Does it go away when you walk? does it occur all day, certain times of the day? sorry if you've already answered those questions before...you can pm me if you want. Not that I have any or all the answers...I just might be able to help, as other medical people here and others who have suffered with the leg pain. Maybe it isn't due to w/d?

what does your doctor say? Did he up your sub dose? Sometimes vit and mineral deficiencies cause leg pain...electrolyte imbalances...at the risk of sounding stupid drink gatorade, take calcium, and potassium (eat bananas, drink oj)....

And on another note: sometimes accupunture works for some people. I've never had it but many swear by it.

Not much help but others may have some suggestions for you, too.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:13 pm 
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Thanks for the reply china.
I'm 27, 6'3, 139 pounds. ( don't judge me because I have a high metabolism lol ;) )

I have actually been off of sub for a little over a week.
I only took it for a week starting at 2mg then 1.5mg etc.. (each day)
So I know it's not from w/d's from sub, wasn't on it long enough nor took enough to get addicted.
My doctor prescribed me clonidine for the lingering w/d's and it does help a little... but I'm just not sure about it.

The pain aches are around my knees/thighs area... of course it radiates down my legs. ALL DAY!

I am currently going through an UTI infection, but did all the research I can I couldn't find anything that say's it can cause your legs to ache... maybe? I missed something?

I honestly believe that I should be way past w/d's for what I was taking and even got on sub for a brief period to help through the first week... which was fine.

So in complete fairness and honesty... the ONLY thing bothering me is my legs... that's it.
I have no other symptoms from w/d.

I have been taking vitamins and have been on my feet with no problems. Doesn't seem to help.

Could it be possible that I'm through my withdrawal and it's something else?


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:00 pm 
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Hi immortal,

I'm not a doctor but a nurse anesthetist who isn't practicing....just fyi...
Did you have a fall or anything that would affect your spine? Disc issues? You said both knees and thighs? Not one sided?

I've had my sciatic nerve pinched and is very painful and usually hurts down my right side butt, hip, leg and it wakes me up at night even. or if I'm on a very long flight. But nonsteroidals def work for that pain.
it's not like you are overweight and putting pressure on your knees...
Have you tried something like Aleve? A nonsteroidal antiinflammatory...or even motrin? If it is inflammatory process it might help.
Sorry...really doesn't sound w/d related to me....when do you see your doctor next?

Hope you get it figured out because pain sucks. Period. and that can sometimes be a trigger for us...wish I could help more.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:30 pm 
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Hey immortal,

At times I wish I would have posted about my wd experience, but I just never have. As far as all these people abusing opiates at high doses for a long time and having a fairly easy wd, it happens. Everyone is so different it's next to impossible to predict what one's wd will be like.

Anyway, I was one of those heavy opiate users, I abused any opiate I could get my hands on for 10 years. I finally got on Suboxone for 3 years then jumped off at 5mg. My ACUTE wd's lasted 3 weeks to a month. As for PAWS, I STILL feel some very weak symptoms from time to time.....I'm 8.5 months off Suboxone and still feeling some PAWS, it's not terrible, but it is noticeable at times.

I know this one thing for sure, WE GET BETTER!! As far down in the hole I felt during my wd, I never thought I would make it out, but one day at a time I did. I simply never gave up, giving up just wasn't an option.

I just wanted to assure you that not everyone who quits opiates gets off easily, I guess people like you and I are just *special*

And then like chinagirl and you are discussing, it might not even be wd?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:24 pm 
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HI again,

I just wanted to throw out some ideas for you....please know that I have no idea what could be going on for you...Since you took sub for a short time you didn't seem to think it would still be w/d...but sub is strong and as Romeo said we are all different. So i don't want you to think I'm giving medical advice...I'm just throwing out other potential ideas..like trying aleve which you can on your own before you head to the doctor...

I do know, tho, of others who have had severe restless leg syndrome in w/d off of Sub even a few days into the w/d...again...we all are so different. Let us know how you are doing....if anything works, or what you find out from your doctor....


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 12:29 am 
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Just got back from the E.R... the pain was getting bad in my legs.

Diagnosis:
Prostate Infection
and
Bladder Infection/UTI

Of course the prostate check was quite unpleasant but I sure could tell when the Dr. hit that spot... IT HURT REALLY BAD.
Dr. said it was tender and open more than usual (whatever that means)... I do know that after the exam I could tell the pain radiating from the prostate check was going to my legs and lower back.
This could be a good thing about the w/d's as in it is quite possible that I'm not going through w/d's but just two infections in close range of each other that I haven't got checked out because I was thinking they were due to w/d's.... I PRAY this is the reason.

Put me on Cipro (bacterial antibiotic)
and
Tramadol (which is just enough to bare the aches until the antibiotics kick in)

So I have an appointment Tuesday with my regular doctor and we will see what happens from there.

Tramadol I know is kind of risky but won't be on it long... until the antibiotics kick in which I'm prescribed for 10 days but I'm sure it will kick in a week or less.


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 Post subject: whaa?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 1:44 am 
Im really confused about your post? You have withdrawals one second you have leg pains. Im on day 21 withdrawal from subs still so i highly doubt your going through a detox similar to this after percs. And You said dont judge me i have a high metabolism, If you check out my thread I am 5 9 have almost an eight pack and a very small body fat percentage and i am going through detox and have lost 10 pounds and weigh 145 right now and look sickly, For you to be that height and weight There is no possible way that is healthy and nothing you can say will provide the contrary for me as studying healthy and being an athlete has been my life. You should do some more research on the facts you know about healthy because blaming your metabolism on it is a complete farce, and minimum research you will know high metabolism doesnt even exist, people that have atrophy and lay around all day actually burn more calories when at a pause and sitting compared to an athlete so if you want to say that its cause you burn more calories than the average person that would be admitting you are unhealthy which could very well contribute to your healthy problems but i dont think you realized this; Metabolism means every single reaction in your human body, ask any doctor this and people usually just say o you have a high metabolism to oversimplify something and pretend like they have some knowledge, so are you trying to tell me that you have a high metabolism therefore your have higher reactions of everything in your body? Well you would be dead if your "metabolism " was remotely high , better yet you wouldnt have even been conceived. Something smells fishy to me you must have some underlying health problems or very poor diet and exercise, so may you please explain why you are so small?
And preferably not with a copout phrase like i have high metabolism, which i think you meant i burn more calories, well if you burn more calories than the average person and you do not workout at least 3x a week or are very active my advice would be to you that your rest heart rate must be pretty high and small activities must seem extremely strenous to you to be sedentary and that sickly small.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 3:34 am 
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Whoa dude... you do realize this is a support forum and not a jump down somebodies throat forum because "you" don't believe something.
On the contrary it's a genetic thing on my fathers side... he was just like me in the army for a fact, so yeah he was fit and in shape. But his BMI like mine is way off back when he was my age. When he hit 30 is when he lost his high metabolism.
Also having a high metabolism is a very real thing... google?
Let me put it this way, if I were to have enough alcohol to where I would get a hangover... let's just say I get the hangover before I wake up... sometimes before I even go to bed... in turn is why I don't even drink.
So me living through this has been enough proof that it's very real and every doctor I have ever seen my entire life has never said anything about it but just laughed it off knowingly that I will lose this "gift as they put it".

One more IMPORTANT thing... My whole post had nothing to do with my metabolism... it was just a mere laugh ... note the "lol and ;)"

So please don't jump down my throat telling me what "you" believe, and especially making someone upset on a support forum.
I mean... come on man!


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 12:14 pm 
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Hey immortal, I guess some people have a particular sensitivity to the words "High Metabolism"? :lol: :lol:

For some strange reason, the words "High Metabolism" don't anger me to the point where I would feel it necessary to jump down your throat either. I read your post and barely noticed the high metabolism comment?? I had to go back and look TWICE to find where you even said it!!

So, you got the old prostate examined, eh. *shudder*, I've had one or two of those 'exams' done too. When it's all done and over with and I'm walking out of the doctor's office, I swear all the people in the waiting room know exactly what just happened to me by the way they are looking at me! :oops: .... :lol:

I hope once those anti-biotics kick in that your infections clear up and your leg pain goes away.

Hang in there, man.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 11:58 pm 
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@Immortal

Hey:) I'm sorry as well to hear about the leg pains. I'm not quite sure why it's still acting up to a point where it's really annoying. You said 3 weeks, so perhaps give it a little more time. I sort of can agree with you on a certain scale of the pains. It's been almost two months for myself off the Subs and when I'm at work mine act up as well. It's an achy annoying feeling that runs all the way through. I just think this is primarily based on being on a hard concrete floor all day which makes them feel the way they do. Like Romeo said, everyone's duration/severity of a withdrawal is different and can add confusion to one who is going through it. Trust me when I say this but I read read read about withdrawals prior to going through them. I was so scarred to go through what a lot of individuals were saying. But hear me out, just read it to base your symptoms on. I eventually realized that I shouldn't be reading so deeply between the lines as everyone experiences things different.

Stay motivated! If things do keep up then go to a doctor and see what the problem may be. I would just give it some time. Keep focused and stay strong :)

-Jboss


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:48 am 
Hi Immortal! Geez, I'm sorry someone decided to go off on a tangent on you because you're thin!!! Good Lord!
Granted, given your height, you are extremely thin. I'll assume by what you've said that you have a regular physician who has verified that indeed you are just genetically thin, but that you are healthy. If that's the case, your 'thinness' or 'high metabolism' or whatever really is a nonissue. I can kind of relate. Unlike you, I am a female....but I've always been pretty thin, petite or whatever. I've had other women act almost pissed off at me when I tell them I'm well into my forties, have had three 8-9+ pound babies, can pretty much eat whatever I want, exercise only minimally and yet I'm the same size I was in high school. Whatever.....I always say, like you, it's all about genetics. My mother is 72 and still just tiny, and my father is 73 and 6ft tall and a very fit 170ish pounds. Anyway....ignore the "haters!"
As to this terrible discomfort you're having....I hope that it is due the infections and that the antibiotic takes care of it. I have to say though....Leg pain was, for me, the WORST, most SEVERE w/d symptom I had when I cold-turkey quit abusing large amounts of IV Fentanyl, IV Demerol and whatever oral pain meds I could get my hands on. That pain was crushing! It went on for days on end. I don't think, however, that it lasted as long as three weeks....that's seems excessive. Now you did take Suboxone for a little while which does have a longer half life and is known to have a longer acute w/d period. Personally, I think it is possible that that's why your legs hurt so bad. Not all that likely.....but possible. We're all different remember.
If it is due to w/d...the only thing that gave me any relief from that leg pain was hot baths/showers and bearing weight on my legs. If you can, go to the gym and work on every machine they've got that are for 'legs' and walk, walk, walk. Even though you don't want to....I can almost promise it will give a little relief. Hang in there and please come back and let us know what happens. I feel for you....I really do.....that friggin' hurts!!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:42 am 
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Everyone is different and we all have different thresholds of tolerance for physical and emotional pain. I never judge how I "should feel" based on the experiences of someone else. Sure, you can ascertain a certain amount of general knowledge about what it should feel like to withdraw from an opioid medication based on how others have described the experience, but everybody still has their own subjective experience during withdrawal and if you say you're really having a difficult time with it, then it is what is it.

All I can offer you is hope. The longer you go from the time you took your last opiate, the better it will get for you. Yes, there will be peaks and valleys to how you feel. Some days you'll feel MUCH better and think you have crossed some threshold of some kind only to feel worse the next day, but the trend -over the long haul- will be that you will feel incrementally better as time goes by.

Posting here on a support forum, where others who have experienced what you are experiencing can help.

Hang in there, it will get better!


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:45 pm 
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Please don't take tramadol for more than a week! Or you'll have a whole new set of withdrawals to go through. You said you were taking everything in the book, were you taking Ibuprofen? Ibuprofen, Alleve and other NSAID's are really good for joint pain. Also, try good old fashioned linament, like ben-gay or icy hot. They may give temporary relief, and even the rubbing part helps. Also in re: your weight, you probably are clinically underweight, and your joints might benefit from more healthy fats in your diet. You might want to even consider an omega-3 supplement.
All that being said, the places where you have infections have a lot of nerve connections, so maybe the pain in your legs is referred from that area and it will get better with the antibiotics.
Hope you feel better!
Lilly

p.s. has anyone noticed that people who haven't been sick for years on Sub, suddenly get the flu or some other bad infection as soon as they go off Sub? It's like it disrupts our homeostasis.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:00 pm 
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Heck yeah Lilly,

I hardly ever got sick while on Suboxone, but pretty quickly after I quit I started getting sick more and more. Nothing serious, thank goodness, but I would get an infection here and there and I just figured it was due to the wd and that my immune system was weak during this time?

I'm glad you brought this up, I had almost forgot about it. It would be nice to know what the heck was going on.


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 Post subject: Immortal26
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:06 pm 
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I wanted to add one thing that I heard from someone on Youtube who was talking about Sub w/d. He recommended those heated foot massaging baths for the leg pain. I'm certainly investing one of these things!

laddertipper

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First you take a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes you. ~F. Scott Fitzgerald


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:12 pm 
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Lillyval wrote:
Please don't take tramadol for more than a week! Or you'll have a whole new set of withdrawals to go through. You said you were taking everything in the book, were you taking Ibuprofen? Ibuprofen, Alleve and other NSAID's are really good for joint pain. Also, try good old fashioned linament, like ben-gay or icy hot. They may give temporary relief, and even the rubbing part helps. Also in re: your weight, you probably are clinically underweight, and your joints might benefit from more healthy fats in your diet. You might want to even consider an omega-3 supplement.
All that being said, the places where you have infections have a lot of nerve connections, so maybe the pain in your legs is referred from that area and it will get better with the antibiotics.
Hope you feel better!
Lilly

p.s. has anyone noticed that people who haven't been sick for years on Sub, suddenly get the flu or some other bad infection as soon as they go off Sub? It's like it disrupts our homeostasis.


Lilly, the "p.s" section really struck me. You know what, you are SO right. I don't think the 2-3 years I was on the Subs did I ever really get the flu. Such a good and interesting point. After a month or so I started to get a small cold a long with a cold sore. It was weird but you're right, it really does disrupt our homeostasis.


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 Post subject: Pain Relief
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:43 pm 
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I noticed my pain has almost been taken away. Hopefully when I taper and stop, the pain won't return. But then, Sub is a pain reliever too.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:28 am 
You all see it as jumping down your throat cause your sensitive, and no you are completely wrong, the term high metabolism is a farce. "google it" as you would say bro. And a support forum? yes. Coddle you forum? no.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:00 am 
setmefree wrote:
Hi Immortal! Geez, I'm sorry someone decided to go off on a tangent on you because you're thin!!! Good Lord!
Granted, given your height, you are extremely thin. I'll assume by what you've said that you have a regular physician who has verified that indeed you are just genetically thin, but that you are healthy. If that's the case, your 'thinness' or 'high metabolism' or whatever really is a nonissue. I can kind of relate. Unlike you, I am a female....but I've always been pretty thin, petite or whatever. I've had other women act almost pissed off at me when I tell them I'm well into my forties, have had three 8-9+ pound babies, can pretty much eat whatever I want, exercise only minimally and yet I'm the same size I was in high school. Whatever.....I always say, like you, it's all about genetics. My mother is 72 and still just tiny, and my father is 73 and 6ft tall and a very fit 170ish pounds. Anyway....ignore the "haters!"
As to this terrible discomfort you're having....I hope that it is due the infections and that the antibiotic takes care of it. I have to say though....Leg pain was, for me, the WORST, most SEVERE w/d symptom I had when I cold-turkey quit abusing large amounts of IV Fentanyl, IV Demerol and whatever oral pain meds I could get my hands on. That pain was crushing! It went on for days on end. I don't think, however, that it lasted as long as three weeks....that's seems excessive. Now you did take Suboxone for a little while which does have a longer half life and is known to have a longer acute w/d period. Personally, I think it is possible that that's why your legs hurt so bad. Not all that likely.....but possible. We're all different remember.
If it is due to w/d...the only thing that gave me any relief from that leg pain was hot baths/showers and bearing weight on my legs. If you can, go to the gym and work on every machine they've got that are for 'legs' and walk, walk, walk. Even though you don't want to....I can almost promise it will give a little relief. Hang in there and please come back and let us know what happens. I feel for you....I really do.....that friggin' hurts!!!


I AM NOT BASHING YOU! What i meant was more like healthy internal wise, i have thin genetics also . Im not talking about anyone being jealous about you being able to eat whatever and be thin and comparing that to him, that just adds fuel to my point about him needing to focus on his health more, than my support and some of the only support i know how to give. So all thin genetics, high metabolism, you just hate me cause im thin and your jealous talk is worthless hear ive used it all. Once i started eating an organic diet and learning about how messed up our foods are here in america and hormones and processed garbage i actually gained a little weight but toned and i look so much healthier and better, and feel a thousand times more energetic and it has really helped me take a new approach on my addiction, cause i really care about the things i cant see, its no longer about looking in a mirror to me although im much more cut than when i was "thin eating whatever" its about how i feel about my organs and my long term health and being there for loved ones. That thing you call a "gift" can be the same thing to be your downfall. My 2 cents! And if you disagree with me its all good i am not easily offended, i corrected the metabolism thing on this thread because i am passionate and a little fanatical which has given me ups and downs in my life.


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