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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 12:32 pm 
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I understand that new patients are generally instructed to stay on their initial dose for a while, until things settle down. But unless I'm misunderstanding the ceiling effect, I can't help wondering if I'm just taking 16 mg's (out of 24 total) for essentially nothing....which is to say for no therapeutic effect...despite the high cost of suboxone.

Brief history: I started at 32 mg for the first 3 days. Moved down to 24 for the next week. Now I'm experimenting with 16 mg. So far so good over two days, but with the long half life I probably won't
notice anything....if there's anything to be noticed for another day or so.

Am I now "addicted" to 24 mg, in the sense that my body will register the difference, despite the ceiling effect, between 24 and 16, and cause a return of genuine cravings (as opposed to psychosomatic)? Or will I be able to slide down to 16 pretty easily, and then on down to 8 mg? Again, if I understand the ceiling effect, it seems I will be able to accomplish that pretty easily. Or am I being too cocky?

I'm assuming again based on ceiling effect that at 8mg I'd still be covered pretty much when it comes to cravings.

Any help/guidance greatly appreciated...

Godfrey


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 1:16 pm 
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Hey SeƱor,

As you can probably guess, it is really up to the user to find out for themselves. Although your habit was unique, you have still stabilized onto Suboxone fairly well. Going from 32 to 24, then to 16 mg's was easy. I did not feel anything dropping down to 8 mg's from 16 myself. You may, after maybe 4-5 days, due to the long half life as you stated. Just do it. What is there to lose? If you feel uncomfortable after a few days, bump up by 4 mg's and stay there for a few weeks, then try it again.

I need to take issue with your use of the word "addicted". What you mean is dependent. Look up the definition of being addicted and you'll see that Suboxone has none of those attributes. We take it for daily maintenance. Unless of course you feel an intense craving to take more and more of it. Then that is addict behavior and still not the medication.

When we are stable on Suboxone, we are no longer addicted to the pursuit of catching a buzz from opiates. Do you not agree? This life saving medication allows us to get our life back under control and then build up again what we lost during our using years.

Back to the point. Just do it Godfrey.

rule

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 7:57 pm 
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You shouldn't notice anything for quite a few more days, I would think. I was at 16 mgs and dropped down to 12. I was fine for the first week! Then I'd say at about 8 or 9 days later, I felt as though I was getting a cold. I had symptoms of catching a cold for a few days and when I figured out it might be the Suboxone, I immediately took another 4 mgs to equal the 16 mg I was used to taking, and my "cold" magically went away. I did drop back down to 12 mg though, and I am dropping down to 8 mgs now. Some days I end up taking the 12 but I am taking 4 mg 2 times a day some and kind of feeling around seeing how that is going to do me. Good luck godfrey.------ Bamagirl------


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 10:57 pm 
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I agree with Rule. Just do it-you can always go back and take a little more if you need to. I went from 16 to 14 to 12 without any issues. I could probably go down to 8 without a glitch but I'm fine where I am for now...even if it is just in my head. Good luck to you and let us know how it went please!


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 4:11 pm 
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Quote:
I need to take issue with your use of the word "addicted".



Thanks, rule. I don't disagree, which is why I put the word in quotation marks in original post. So far no problems moving down, I plan to hang out at the 16 mg level for another couple weeks, then to drop to 12, and then down to 8.

I'm assuming that's where the real work begins. The good news seems to be that most people don't have all that much trouble as long as they're not in too big a hurry. To tell you the truth, if it weren't for the surgery issue with bupe, i'd probably stay at 8 for longer. But the older I get, and I'm already up there at 65, the greater the chance of some sort of surgery coming up.

All that said, I won't rush from 8mg. Likely be counterproductive if I do, and to tell you the truth
I'm really enjoying this craving free life I suddenly have. Even during my several decades of sobriety, I was never entirely free of cravings. Now i don't even want a drink, which for me is pretty amazing.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:19 pm 
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Just thought that I would give you a warning. I started on 16 mg After a few weeks my Dr increased my RX to 20 mg I could not handle 20 mg. so went back to 16 mg without permission from my Dr. That was a violation of my narcotics contract, so instead of earning 2 week visits, I had to do another month of weekly appointments. At $200 a visit , that was $600.
The Dr. did go back to prescribing 16 mg at the next appt. Eventually my dose was decreased to 12 then 8, a dose that was perfect for me.
Good luck with your recovery.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:45 am 
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Me too Jeandianne, I got in trouble with my first doctor who said I was not allowed to adjust my dose w/o his permission. This was in 2010 when they knew very little about it. Being an AA person, we practice complete honesty, but I just chose to omit that small detail at my future appt's. Ended up with quite a stockpile though which helped me through a major surgery the following year.

godfrey, we have lots of posts about surgery and Suboxone. Have no fear about any upcoming ones. Been there, done that, and learned a lot. The forum is here in case it happens to you.

r

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:06 am 
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Quote:
godfrey, we have lots of posts about surgery and Suboxone. Have no fear about any upcoming ones. Been there, done that, and learned a lot. The forum is here in case it happens to you.



Hey Rule,

I know it's doable, but much better to be on a smaller dose. I think you're in an enviable position at 1 mg, and I give you much credit for getting there. I hope to be in that range eventually.

I'm beginning to realize how fortunate i am at the clinic I go to. My doctor has no problem with patients experimenting with lowering their doses. I was smart enough not to mention that I'm down to 16 mg, from the 24 he's prescribing, especially as I'm wanting to stockpile a decent supply in case of emergency, but I did talk about it as something I'ld like to experiment with... and he was all for it. Even gave me a suggestion or two.

But when you get right down to it, he's there simply to crank out the prescriptions. There are always 10 to 15 patients waiting, and as far as I can see there's only the one physician. He starts writing a new script the minute I sit down. I just had my 3rd appointment and I've never seen him spend more than 5 minutes with any patient.

He's a nice guy, but way overworked. He also doesn't know much. Not that I do either, but thanks to the forum I know some of the things he's told me are just wrong. I mentioned something about the ceiling effect
in relation to my supposed 24 mg daily dose.... and he looked like he really wasn't sure what I was talking about. Same thing with sub's long half life.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:11 am 
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Godfrey,

Actually I'm on 2 mg's. My first year on Suboxone I was able to get down to 1 mg with only one time having a small w/d effect. Just tried to taper too much too soon. But it's very doable, at least it was for me. Others here have stated that they felt w/d's dropping from 16 to 8. Some do, some don't. Again, I think it depends on what opiate and how high your tolerance was to it. And of course all people react differently to tapering. It just happened to be easy for me. You won't know until you start trying.

It would be easy for me to get back down to 1 mg again. It's just that I'm in no hurry to do so. What point would it prove? The last two weeks I ended up taking 2 extra mg's due to pain related to my bad illness/surgery. It doesn't happen often and I really don't like having to do it but it is nice to know I can take a little extra to help with pain and it really works better at lower doses. Funny how that works. My stockpile is still a decent amount so I'm not worried about the immediate future. The best benefit is not having to go in once a month. Now I can go every 2-3 depending on my other drugs that need refills.

Take your time and pace yourself. There is no race to get to a lower dose. If it takes two years, so be it. I was just lucky.

r

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