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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:17 pm 
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Hello everyone, Im new to the forum. The past 2 days I have been spending my evenings reading everyones posts but theres so many ! I cant seem to find the answer to my question. Like everyone else I to am an addict, have been for 6 years now. In May I joined a research study on suboxone (I should mention, my drug of choice was Tramadol) I was popping 18 50mg pills in one sitting, 3 times a day. It makes me sick even writing that. So back to where I was...In May I joined a research study on Subs and OMG SUBOXONE IS A LIFE SAVER ! Why hadnt I heard of this 6 years ago ! So anyway the subs were amazing , I went 7 straight months without a hitch, until .... last month. Long story short insurance reasoning I was unable to make it to my last appointment which was Dec 15th 2010. So here I was with no suboxone. You can pretty much guessed what happened. Without any subs I had my first relapse with Trams. I fell right back into my old habits. The guilt was unbearable. So from December 16th until January 9th I took trams or hydrocodone when I didnt have any trams. I took care of all the insurance problems and practically begged my doctor to get me back into the office and back on the suboxone. So this past Monday I was able to return to the office and get a new script for the subs. Now the night before around 6ish I took a couple hydrocodones to help with some serious withdrawls and help me sleep. My appointment was at 9am the next morning. After being reevalutated and drug tested(told the truth I was dirty) the doc gave me a sub 4mg at the office by 11am. I wasnt really withdrawling yet, somewhat but nothing that serious. Then I was on my way to fill my script so heres where my question lays (sorry was trying to make it short but figured I needed to give some backround) After my first dose at 11am I felt great until about 5 hours later. I started to feel somewhat stomach sick and felt like I was somewhat high. My eyes were real droppy and I felt really tired. I didnt think much of it. Now it has been 4 days , I did exactly what the doc said as far as gradually increasing and still 4 days later I still feel like crap a few hours after taking the subs. I take 2 8mg pills a day and sure enough shortly after taking it maybe 3 hours I feel like crap. Extremely tired and stomach aches. Not to mention my hubby says I look like Im stoned, eyes are beady and very lethargic. So I guess my quesion is what happened? Last time on subs I felt like a million dolllars, now I feel like shit? Even if I didnt wait until I was in full withdrawl should this still be happening 4 days later? I feel like if this is the way Im guna feel on suboxone this is guna really suck. I notice to I have a very short temper and catch myself snapping at everyone and feeling very angry for no apparent reason. Could this just be because I didnt wait? Should I wait until i am in a full withdraw to take another pill? I dont know what else to do? Please someone help me, I dont want to turn back to the trams cuz these arent working. Thank you so much for your help !


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:24 am 
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I don't think what you're describing is precipitated withdrawals. If it were, you would be violently ill. Imagine your worse withdrawal experience, then multiply it. It could be that you simply need a few days to stabilize. Some people describe similar feeling (stoned, high, dizzy, loopy) for the first few days of treatment. Also, it could be that your tolerance went down while you were off suboxone and you don't need that high a dose. If it were me, I'd give it a couple more days and then I'd try lowering the dose. You might be surprised - you might feel better at a lower dose. But I think if it was P/W, you would absolutely be able to identify it as such. (And it's my understanding that it sets in pretty quickly after taking the sub, not several hours later.) But please know that I'm not a doctor or expert, this is just my opinion based on what I've learned in the last 2+ years.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:44 am 
You may still be adjusting to the med. I would probably try a lower dose if you continue to get the undesired effects.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:49 am 
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What you are experiencing will go away.

When I first went on sub, was coming off 280mg per day oxy habit. Felt like a million bucks with sub.

I went off sub for a few months. When I went back on, I had to very SLOWLY increase my dose over a couple weeks. It did take about 2 weeks for that droopy, half high, sick to my stomach feeling to go away. I took 4mg in the morning and did not take anymore sub until that icky feeling went away. Then, I would only take 4mg. I only got up to 10mg per day and stopped because that was all I needed to get rid of my pain at the time. You probably don't need such a high dose anymore. Stay as low as you can and then see how you feel in 2-3 weeks. I would say by the 3rd week, you will know what dose you need to take.

It's harder getting on sub from nothing than going from high doses of narcotics....withdrawal.....sub. That is a very easy transition. The other way around is a little harder.

Good luck!
Cherie

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 Post subject: Much better
PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 2:56 am 
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Thank you everyone for the advice ! So heres what I did. This morning I took a 8mg sub hoping that its been 5 days now that I wouldnt get loopy and sick to my stomach. Well it happened anyway. So for my afternoon dose I only took a half and felt a little loopy but nothing to serious, ate something and I FELT SOOOO MUCH BETTER ! I waited about 4 hours and took the other half of 4mg and still felt great ! I even did some cleaning and looking in the mirror I didnt look like I had smoked a pound of weed lol so Im thinking the 8mg without food is too much. For my dose tomorrow Im only going to take 4mg , eat something and see how it goes. i hope finally I wont be feeling like that anymore. Its horrible ! Almost made me sway but I, guna stick it out. I will update tomorrow with my expierence. Again thank you everyone for all of your help, it feels nice to have someone to talk to about these things, sometimes the docs just dont get all the ins and outs ya know. Well have a nice night everyone ! Sorry for any misspelling its 2am and the pillows calling my name lol


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 6:39 pm 
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I'm glad you are feeling better, and glad you got good advice here. People generally have one of two bad experiences when starting buprenorphine; they either have precipitated withdrawal from coming from too high of a tolerance or using an agonist too recently, OR they have opioid toxicity from coming from too low of a tolerance level.

In general, precipitated withdrawal causes diarrhea, headache, sleepiness, irritability, depression. restless legs, insomnia, and BIG pupils.
Opioid toxicity causes itching, nausea, vomiting, constipation, sleepiness, headache, and TINY pupils.


the easiest way to tell the difference is by looking at the pupils. If they are tiny in moderate light, then the buprenorphine is stronger than the person's tolerance level, and the person should back off with the dose a little bit and wait, and will soon feel better-- as was suggested here.

For precipitated withdrawal, it is best to just keep taking the full dose of Suboxone (8-16 mg) every day, and NO agonists. The symptoms almost always go away within a few days.

Sounds like y'all nailed it!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:02 am 
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Hey everyone ! I just wanted to give a quick update before bed. Well.... I FEEL SOOO MUCH BETTER ! I stuck it out and wouldnt ya know , no more loopy feelings ! That was horrible! i felt like it was never guna go away. So now Im back on my path of a clean and happy life. I havent had any thoughts of those stupid trams and hopefully for good! I even got out of the house today and had a "beauty day" with my 8 year old daughter, we went and had our nails done. She was really happy ... so was I.Friends of ours opened a new restraunt today, we took the kiddies for dinner and enagaged in conversation for a few hours with friends. I really felt good today and really heart warming as I write this. The only thing I have notice since returning back on subs is I am very short tempered, stupid things make me snap? Whether it being traffic, my dogs, the hubby even stupid things like having trouble getting the key in the door. Is this normal? For some reason I cant remember if I felt this way last time. Im hoping its just a glitch and willl go away soon. Its like im bipolar, after I flip out I tell myself that Im acting like an ass and need to cut it out. My husband was like what the hell is wrong with you ? U just yelled at me now ur acting sweet as pie? I dont know how to explain it to him or if this is even normal behavior. Anyone else having this problem?


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