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 Post subject: Proper Induction
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:01 am 
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I study the posts Doc but keep messing up. I stopped using H on Friday. Did not use Saturday and started induction 2mg at a time. I went to 8 when I felt halfway good but not 100% I broke down on Monday and did 2 bags of weak dope. Felt nothing I read your old post telling me there was probably bup on my receptors and if I used under these same conditions I would be okay to start again with the bup the next day. I took 1mg. wanting to start the bup and go the course. OMG what a mistake. I never felt nothing like it.
I know it is my fault for going back and forth but I just dont feel right the first and 2nd day of bup and go back to H.
I want off so bad but I am not doing this correctly. Please give me some advice


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 Post subject: Re: Proper Induction
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:13 am 
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Hi Juniorsdad, Welcome, sounds to me like you need to start again. So, you are now back to using H again? I would go back to the drawing board. Stop using, wait until you have full withdrawl symptoms and start the suboxone again. What dosage did your Doctor prescribe? Have you discussed with him/her what happened? I think that would be the best place to start. Good luck! Please keep posting so we know how you are doing!


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 Post subject: Re: Proper Induction
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:05 am 
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Hey junior's dad,

Glad to see you back! I like Michelle's response very much. I want you to know I identify with you, and completely understand how difficult this can be. We addicts find ourselves, really by definition, in
what seem to be an impossible situation. Like dogs who have been trained to salivate at the sound of a dinner bell, we addicts sometimes literally can't help ourselves..

And yet eventually we must if we want to go on living. Quit the H, wait til you're good and sick, and stick with the bupe. I can just about 100 percent guarantee you'll have a new life inside of 4 or 5 days.

Keep posting!!

Best wishes,
Godfrey


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 Post subject: Re: Proper Induction
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:55 am 
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Juniorsdad I have been following ur journey since ur first post and been pulling for u the whole way. I was hoping u would cut all ties to ur H connection. I feel like if u don't stop keeping H at arms length, ur going to be way to tempted.... and keep going bk. As addicts we have to change ppl, places and things. It's hard but I know u can do it. Anything is better than active addiction.

Maybe what happened with the getting sick is a good thing. Maybe now u will be afraid to keep switching bk and forth. Switching bk and forth like that is just putting ur mind and ur body through hell. Once u do another dose of buprenorphine, get rid of all ur H contacts. U won't need them because if u give bupe a chance long enough, it will stop ur cravings (make sure u take a high enough dose to cover ur cravings though).

I can't remember if u have a doctor or not, do u? If not then u really really need to get one instead of buying off the street. I'm afraid if ur buying them off the street, it'll be to easy to run into H on the street..... and that could sabotage ur whole process.

Ur so close juniorsdad, I'm pulling for u and have been the entire time!! Good luck and please keep us updated.

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 Post subject: Re: Proper Induction
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:33 pm 
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Always humbling to come after great posts. I'll go ahead and still post mine

juniorsdad,
Gosh, glad to see you back here. Have been wondering about you. Appreciate your courage to try induction again! Man, good for you. Can't wait to welcome you to your new great life on bup. You're almost here and are much much MUCH closer than you realize.

The good news is you were able to be off heroin long enough to start bup!! Good going. The issue came the next day when you went back to H. So, you have H right there? Calling your name? If I'm imagining it correctly, you have 2 drugs side by side in front of you, one your brain clearly wants and craves, the other is an unknown. Don't give yourself an equal choice between the 2. Make it hard for you to restart H. Hide it, make it hard to get to. This distracts you and buys you time so you take more bup instead. And ya, you gotta get rid of H around.

This idea is more of a stretch... While it seems you have no bup Dr, any chance you can get a script for clonidine from your PCP? Its a blood pressure med, yet interestingly -- very effective for WDs. It will help you gain longer time off H till you induct on bup. And the next few days after, makes it easier for you to take bup only bc you'll feel less crappy waiting for your higher H tolerance mismatch to lower to bup's. We've talked before that 2 things need to happen, H needs to leave your receptors AND your tolerance needs to lower. Both are different. Both need to occur. Both require time. I know what I mean but not sure if even any of this makes sense. Best to you always, P

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 Post subject: Re: Proper Induction
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:49 pm 
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Good advice from everyone JD!

We are here to help, but you, on your end, you need to give the buprenorphine a week for you to start feeling as you're meant to feel on this medication. Heroin is the second hardest drug to transition from to suboxone. (The hardest is methadone.) So much heroin these days is being cut with fentanyl and fentanyl gets stored in the fat cells of the body, which is why it takes longer to be metabolized from your body.

I'm thinking that you need to be isolated from the outside world during induction. No phone. No internet. And a guard making sure that you're not running off to score. I would send you to a cabin in the woods with a grumpy uncle to watch over you. You would detox for 2 or 3 days, then start the suboxone with at least 8 mg by the end the first day. I would keep you at the cabin until the suboxone had time to do what it's supposed to. When you interrupt the process by scoring H, you are putting yourself back at square one.

Amy

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 Post subject: Re: Proper Induction
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:08 pm 
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it's great you're trying again. you can do this. keep us posted.

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 Post subject: Re: Proper Induction
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:05 pm 
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I'm glad Amy mentioned fentanyl laced heroin that's frequently showing up. That maybe accounts for why after you inducted on bup and did ok at 8mg then took H and "Felt nothing. I read your old post telling me there was probably bup on my receptors and if I used under these same conditions I would be okay to start again with the bup the next day. I took 1mg. wanting to start the bup and go the course. OMG what a mistake. I never felt nothing like it"

There are 2 long acting opiates. methadone especially and fentanyl, that require longer time off than short acting opiates like H or oxy before starting bup. If your H has fentanyl in it, its longer acting than H and maybe why you're having a hard time inducting on bup. Means its more imperative that you don't use H after you start bup. Its said here over and over, once you start bup, KEEP going!!

I agree w Amy's remote cabin idea and adding a 2nd grumpy uncle. I have one I can loan. Actually, wish you had access to a short H detox to bup place. We're concerned here when we see someone going back and forth bc they can get sicker and sicker. Dr J has written about that as have others. Hopefully someone can easily find it and post it.

So many rooting for you and pulling for you! Best always, P

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Did well on Suboxone. Stopped May 2011.
Stopping went well -- its the staying stopped -- where the real work begins.
Coming here 'keeps recovery green'.


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 Post subject: Re: Proper Induction
PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:07 am 
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All of you are awesome. I felt strength and encouragement. I just cannot understand why I feel co bad after two days of taking small doses of bup. I guess everyone is different. I am going to give it more time.
I cant understand the Doctors in this area want to be paid out of pocket. Most dont want insurance which I am covered.


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 Post subject: Re: Proper Induction
PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:19 pm 
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hey juniorsdad, question for you and others too. For those that have insurance yet only have access to bup Dr's that require cash -- can you pay cash and then send in the receipts to your insurance co for their reimbursement? Is it an out of network issue? and/or a high deductible issue? or both?
juniorsdad, be sure to call and call Drs, you could be surprised -- a Dr might take ins. Do you have the link for list of Dr names? Amy's posted it a bunch lately.

Juniorsdad, if you haven't already, read orion's recent new thread. Seems like you're a thinker and it helps for you to understand why something is happening. it talks about tolerance mismatch which is what you are likely having trouble w. and maybe some PWs if fentanyl's in the H. You're needing time off for H to leave your receptors AND your tolerance to go down. Plus, when you next try bup induction, I'm thinking you still need more bup. What do others think?

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Did well on Suboxone. Stopped May 2011.
Stopping went well -- its the staying stopped -- where the real work begins.
Coming here 'keeps recovery green'.


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 Post subject: Re: Proper Induction
PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:30 am 
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I think he needs a higher dose too pelican, I agree.

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 Post subject: Re: Proper Induction
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 5:35 am 
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Pelican wrote:
hey juniorsdad, question for you and others too. For those that have insurance yet only have access to bup Dr's that require cash -- can you pay cash and then send in the receipts to your insurance co for their reimbursement? Is it an out of network issue? and/or a high deductible issue? or both?

i started treatment in sept. and have yet to be reimbursed by highmark. i started sending in a major medical claim in december. it was finally looked at march 20th. i submitted the claim 6 times. and added on appointments up til feb.
if it actually gets paid it would be 80% of what i paid after a $300 deductible. so maybe $800ish. i found a new dr on suboxone's website that takes insurance and transferred there this week. it is such a nice place. its a real dr. office not a clinic. i don't have to wait in line to pee or dump my own pee!

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