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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:18 am 
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I stumbled onto this website and was amazed that you had a perfect section for someone like myself , to set a few things straight about Suboxone, Subutex, Methadone, and basically any form of a clinic/Doctor finding a way for you to keep on living with your addiction.
Obviously alot of people have heard of the african rootbark alkaloid Ibogaine. Well after 12 years of first5 or so smoking tar heroin daily, to being welcomed open arms...oops! (I meant open wallet) to begin methadone maintenance. Now I have alot I could say about the way the methadone industry is run ,but I'm here to stir up a few intelligent people heres thoughts on how much money it must have taken to bring a drug like suboxone thru the FDA drug criteria and all the while the real cure for not only opiate addiction , but a host of other addictions as well (Ibogaine Hcl) goes unfunded and is to date still illegal to posess inside the USA.
I had my doubts about the validity of any miracle substance being able to completely skip the main reason all of us opiate addicts kept using, the Post Acute Withdrawal Symptoms.
7 years of a long acting opiod like methadone made it a little rougher than if I was simply on heroin, but alas...IT WORKS!!!


Why remain a slave to a pharmecutical company who makes a drug that if left alone (Subutex) I'd at least have given it a try before learning that all these opiod replacement doctors/clinics,ect, arent telling you what most fail to read in their patient rights / orientation brocoure. Methadone and suboxone are not intended to ever let you go. If being opiate free is your goal..Pick another subtance..a one time use substance at that. Ibogaine!
No drug company will fund trials for ibogaine due to they'll lose so much money when their junkies dont come back daily, or monthly for an overpriced fix.

Please do yourself a favor look into Ibogaine Hcl.

Thank you.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:39 am 
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I'm glad that you found something that worked for you. There's no need to get insulting about other people's choices for recovery though (ie, saying they are "slaves" to the pharma co's or whatever).

I was on Sub for 2 years and now I'm almost 3 years off of it and doing great. I'm not the only one on the forum who has made the transition off of Sub successfully either. Others aren't ready yet, or they're using it for pain management, or they've decided that they're just staying on it because it works for them.

Ibogaine looks very promsing as a treatment but as you said, it's illegal and therefore inaccessible to many people. It also carries risks, including heart failure. Lately there has been a resurgence of interest in pyschedelics as treatments for addiction as well as other disorders. Studies are being done and hopefully some good will come of it.

Suboxone isn't perfect, but it is so much better than some of the other options available for treating opiate addiction. Please don't assume that we're a bunch of ignorant fools up in here - most of us are very well read about these issues. And you are not the first person to come preaching about Iboga, we have several threads about it already detailing different members' experiences with it - some more positive than others.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:27 am 
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this is what makes me worry a little about getting iboga treatment" why would some one who had the treatment and doing so fucking good. but then come and tell people that are way to many of that could even get the treatment. i just don't get it?
how many addicts out there and how or not many at all ibogain hospital's or clinics. so don't say hay every one get treated.
yes lets all us junky's take a trip to the under ground, or even better when we can get of the f'n drugs so we can take a flight to iboga would :lol:----------- 8)

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:06 am 
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It's an interesting drug... But from what I've heard the majority of people who use Ibogaine to get clean end up relapsing. But more people succeed via Ibogaine than via cold turkey. Still, I question whether it's worth the risk to one's life, to one's sanity. What if Ibogaine induces a psychosis?

I remember hearing a guy on an Ibogaine documentary go on about how it was a miracle cure... and in the next breath he said "if a person relapses it's not the Ibogaine's fault, it's the person's fault"... So much for a miracle cure.

Suboxone is far from a miracle cure. But I've realised lately that I need to be kind to my brain, as it's the only one I have, and the kindest way to get off opioids is to use a long acting one and slowly taper. Using a neurotoxic hallucinogen to rewire my brain in a 24 hour marathon trip where I can barely move and puke my guts up ... doesn't seem like a really wise move if I care about my brain.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:47 pm 
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:idea: I totally a gree with you, Lowjack. Funny, we are both new posters. As I said in my post, I jumped off sub. at 16 mgs cause I can't control any narcotic addiction. And I spend 15 years of my life on methadone. It makes me sick how they've found yet another mind and soul numbing drug to feed to the junkies. My whole lie fell apart on it - it made me unemployable in my field, etc. ad nauseum (the subs).

I have never heard of this African root bark Ibogaine. You said one use? I'm going to look into it. So sick of being tempted against my better judgement to get on heroin substitutes that just keep on destroying your life. For awhile, they probably saved me from suicide but then they ...the same old story.
That's why, for me, I'm mad about Subs and methadone. Because they (the promoters) lie and say, "NOw you're clean," as your head hits your chest.
Take care, interesting information. I also agree that everyone is where they are in their recovery and their life, and entitled to their own judgements. It's just that for me, everyone judgement I made on suboxone was misguided, selfish and ended up in a bunch of jackpots with no money left from saveings - becuz it told me "buy that , it's ok."
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:09 pm 
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I can say this much, Suboxone is still an opiate of sorts, it's not a "miracle drug", and yes, it is only a temporary fix. Still, looking back at where I was before Sub....I can say it has been a success for me. I'm still on 2 mg a day, and am taking my sweet ass time tapering off of that low dose.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:17 pm 
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Tear'. i no this may sound silly but' how much damage can any control'd drug do to your brain in just one day :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:05 pm 
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johnboy wrote:
Tear'. i no this may sound silly but' how much damage can any control'd drug do to your brain in just one day :lol:


A fair bit johnboy ... There's heaps of naturally occurring neurotoxins around that can do heaps of damage with one use. Check out this doco about MPTP, a by product of illicit fentanyl that was floating around in the 80's that left people paralyzed for life.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJIMC9d9l2o

There's also studies into methamphetamine in apes that have shown that the majority of neurotoxicity occurs with its FIRST use. ie those apes given methamphetamine just once had damage that lasted life long.

I'm of the belief that all opioids, actually all addictive substances, are neurotoxic in that they alter the normal healthy functioning of the brain by inducing addiction.

I've taken naturally occurring psychedelics that have left a significant impact on how I would come to think and feel afterwards. I'm talking mescaline, mushrooms. I know of people who've taken psychedelics and have gone to see a doctor 6 months after because of annoying residual effects, like stationary objects and patterns appearing like they're moving months after their trip. That's actually brain damage, and it can take a long time, years even for the brain to normalise itself after that kinda experience.

Quote:
Injury to neuronal cell bodies and activation of glial cells are being studied with other drugs. Neurotoxic hallucinogens such as ibogaine and harmaline are useful tools for analyzing mechanisms of neuronal injury. Ibogaine, an indole alkaloid being evaluated for treatment of drug addiction, causes hallucinations and tremor, followed by excitotoxic degeneration of Purkinje cells in the cerebellum. Ibogaine produces excitation of neurons in the inferior olive; sustained bursting of olivary neurons leads to release of glutamate from climbing fiber terminals that synapse repeatedly over the surface of Purkinje cells, and leads to excitotoxic damage. We are using ibogaine as a model system to analyze mechanisms of excitotoxic injury and to develop strategies that protect against glutamate toxicity.


Mark Molliver...

Last year I got put on interferon. It's very different to Ibogaine, but similar in that both drugs are neurotoxic through activating microglia (immune) cells within the brain. What's interesting for me is that in the middle of that 6 months course if interferon treatment I had a night which was like an intense trip. The drug had just sent me into a manic spin, and I wasn't sleeping. But I saw images of my life and who I was and I knew why I had become the person I was, and what caused it, and what I had to do. I even posted on this board the day after how I never wanted to use again, how I didn't need Suboxone anymore. People responded that I was crazy. And I haven't exactly stayed clean.

Ibogaine is extremely politicised. To the lefty liberals at MAPS it can do no wrong, it's an important stepping stone to getting the world use psychedelic drugs as a valid way to explore consciousness. To the conservatives, it's totally ridiculous that people would use a drug that gets you high to stop someone getting high. Ibogaine is to be stopped at all costs. Because of this political tug of war, the real truth is so hard to get to. Even good scientists can have their work skewed in some kinda political lens. I find it really concerning that Mark Molliver's totally valid discovery of the neurotoxicity of Ibogaine is being discredited by the Ibogaine movement. Same thing happened when they discovered the neurotoxicity of MDMA / Ecstacy, how its proponents at Erowid and MAPS started trying to discredit it as if it had some kinda political motivation.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:11 am 
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Tear3'. very interesting and true about the those bad drugs'. and maybe iboga being a little related to infer-. but i was more on the base of saying ibogain being treated one day, could not due to much. any way the treated sound a touch strange and i was thinking maybe the shit they went through may have caused that. i don't think any doc would give a control'd drug to some one, knowing it could cause brain damage for life" but then i guess i could be wrong :shock:

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:58 am 
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Heaps of drugs are neurotoxic. The docs prescribe interferons for MS and Hep C knowing that it does damage. It's just the benefits of being cured make it worth it. Same goes for anti-psychotics. For decades they known they're neurotoxic and they cause tardive dyskenesia, but having patients stay in psychosis does more damage. Youtube "tardive dyskenesia" there's a disturbing one of a young girl who got it after taking Invega. It can be permanent. It can also come from Reglan / Maxolon - common medication to treat nausea.

There are also drugs that are neurotrophic that can help the brain grow new neurons. They think anti-depressants can be in certain areas, as can lithium and mood stabilisers, and fish oil. Anti-psychotics strangely can be as well, but they seem to damage areas responsible for movement.

In the case of Ibogaine. Its neurotoxicity may be what provides its effect on addiction. The areas of the brain its neurotoxicity is associated with just happens to be one of the main areas associated with addiction. So it may "get in there" and fry the addictive circuits we've reinforced over the years. I guess you gotta weigh up the benefits vs the risk. Possibility of living a clean life with diminished cravings against a marginal risk of death, psychosis, neurotoxicity, possible waste of money. The rewards are still great enough to warrant the risk perhaps.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:08 am 
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yes '. and i took those meds and got sick with tardive- and lether- and saratoninsyndrome. so what more do i have to loose :P

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:27 am 
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2 weeks after i was on lithium 20 years ago it gave me supraventriculertackycardia and had to stay in the hosptal :cry:
so after that they put me on some thing other and it fuck'd up my liver. i bogain could not do much worse? i think it's double danger's for bi-poler patients to try and wean off suboxone.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:30 am 
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and jumping would be to jump off a 4 story building :shock:

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:34 am 
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Ibogaine could be dangerous because it's a tryptamine ... at least for me those drugs are notorious for causing psychosis.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:43 am 
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some people simply are not ready to quit all opiates and yes all other drugs like speed need 2 be left alone for as long as possible before dosing with iboga. I am here to tell you that its got a sticky prozac effect that keeps the addict essentially "reset" to before the addiction took control.

It works.. $350.00 for 100g. of rootbark and a little kitchen chemistry and viola! free from the pain of everyday sickness


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:49 am 
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What's a sticky prozac effect?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:08 pm 
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$350? I've always heard Iboga was more- MUCH more!! Has that changed?


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 Post subject: Trusting the unknown
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:42 pm 
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No one knows for sure what Ibogaine will do to the brain once ingested. I've read both good and bad stories about it and I am not under any circumstances going to be a guinea pig for a drug that is banned in the U.S.A.

What harm can one dose of a drug do? How about all the X stories where people lose touch with reality? We just had a young lady here at the Electric Daisy Festival take her first and only dose of X and freaked out. She ended up jumping from a 12 story balcony. An honor student who wasn't a druggie, just experimenting like so many do at that age.

And me? When I was 15 I took some Orange Sunshine LSD and ended up having a grand mall seizure. Would have died if not for someone knowing CPR. Next thing I remember is a needle coming out of my arm filled with Thorazine. EEG showed brain damage. How much and what the end result was I don't know. But I do know I cannot take anything that would cause psychosis. Had to stop smoking pot too as that freaked me out after that episode. No hallucinagetics for me.

That's my take on it.

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 Post subject: Ibogaine Hcl.
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:22 pm 
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Im on my 3rd day on sub and I could not ever ask for anything better at the present. I never dreamed in my wildess dreams
that I would feel this goot! My Doc. prescribed 8/2 x2 for chonic pain. Butt first he had to relieve me of my misey. I went from $2,000. habit a month to $220. sub + $20.00 office visit. This is the rest of my life peace miracle, and is a small price to pay for my life! My story is in introductions, thanks for this site, thanks to all you goot guys here, and thank God for Suboxone! 3rd day and my new life has started. Can't believe it... peace...jack 8)

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:08 pm 
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for along time i refused to be on any type of maintenence, i would always get clean and feel fine.. sometimes great, well, when i look back at my relapse patterns, i never stayed clean longer than 4 months, id go to meetings, but i still relapsed eventually, i ended up giving subutex a try because i became pregnant, at first i thought id have to take methadone, which i do not believe id ever get on methadone, it may work for some but for me i feel that would be another ball n chain like heroin was... but if it works for others than that's great! my dr prescribes me 8mg.. 4mg twice a day, i only take 2mg a day, but i never get cravings now, yeah i will withdrawl from them if i stop taking them, which trust me ive had a hard time accepting the fact that i have to be on these, and sometimes feel like im stuck, but then i remind myself that i have a disease, the disease of addiction, and just like other diseases, some people do not need medication intervention as some do.. and when it comes to addiction, i need medication to keep my disease at ease. but i can understand other opinions about it, but if something else works and is keeping you clean than thats great! for me and alot of others, this is what works for us :)


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