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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 4:53 pm 
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If you take the time to read this I LOVE YOU. If you take the time to offer your advice, I LOVE YOU EVEN MORE!

I am 15 weeks pregnant and taking suboxone, not subtex (illegally).
I have a medical condition that causes daily pain and has no current succesful treatment options that helped me. I went to a pain management facility years ago, but they had started giving me very strong meds that I asked to be taken off of. I did not want to take oxycontin and fetanyl that young, plus I feared I was developing an addiction. Shortly after this, I was dropped as a patient! Well, that was my first experience with any type of pain management, so I begin illegally treating myself. I took the lowest dose of vicodin for 5 years and only halves at a time a few times a day. Around year six, I had started taking percocet (5mg), then eventually (10mg), but always halves never whole pills. Around this time, I came to the realization that I was taking more than I should be and taking it in anticipation of pain.

Eventually, taking these meds for so long seemed to be really affecting my stomach and I was also developing a tolerance. I felt that if I didn't try to get off them I would have nothing else that relieved my pain, but very very stong narcotics like oxycontin. I thought that if I could get off them I would try seeking treatment again, but be better equiped to take the medication when I had pain instead of taking it all the time.

Anyway, a friend had given me suboxone (also illegally) to try. This worked and I was taking it illegally for about three months, then found out I was pregnant. I frightened to expose all these issues with illegal medications, but of course I will for my child sake. I am also currently in a Master's program to become something equivilant to a physicians assistant, but my profession has no interaction with medications.

Does anyone know if CPS will be called when I tell a suboxone Dr. I have been taking suboxones illegally? Could it affect my career as well? I am in my last year of school and also worry that potential colleagues will find out about all these issues when I seek help. I work in the medical field and I know that there really is no such thing as patient confidentiality among medical professionals. I am very HIPPA oriented, but the majority of individuals I know are not. Example: A girl I know was at a facility where I had my HCG blood test done to confirm the pregnancy and before I got home I had three calls from individuals saying OMG your pregnant! The girl I went to high school with looked up my record when she saw me and called people to tell them!!


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 5:14 pm 
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I do not believe a physician would report you nor do I think they would be obligated. I am not positive of course. BUT....I cannot in a million years imagine a sub doctor doing that. Plus, technically speaking (don't anyone harp at me for this one) the fetus isn't exactly considered a human being yet so I think they wait until you actually deliver for stuff like that. Your sub doctor can't report you to anyone over your chosen profession either and it is none of their business what you are going to school for. Just don't tell them.

I think you are doing the right thing going to the doctor and getting the sub legally. I do not think anything bad will happen from it.

Cherie


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 5:26 pm 
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Thank you Cherie.. I apprieciate your advice.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 5:52 pm 
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Welcome to the forum, Abbylin. I agree with Cherie, I think you're safe with a sub doctor. I also agree that you're doing the right thing getting on them legitimately - and you'll need subutex rather than suboxone, but it sounds like you know that already.

There are many stories here from women who have had healthy babies while taking bupe. On your other thread I posted a link to some of Dr. Junig's blog posts about sub and pregnancy.

Good luck and let us know how you're doing.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:30 am 
Hi Abbylin and welcome. Congratulations on the pregnancy. I agree with Cherie and Mel that you're doing the right thing and you won't suffer any consequences for telling the truth. I was apalled that someone would inform other people of your lab results! Would she have done the same thing if, for instance, it was a positive AIDS test? IMO she should be fired.
Good luck to you,
Lilly


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:48 am 
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Hi there! Congrats on your pregnancy and your career! that's awesome! I have to agree with everyone that if you seek legal help with a sub dr then they won't call CPS! You are doing the right thing!

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Of course there's such a thing as angels. Only sometimes they don't have wings... and we call them mothers. -Unknown


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:35 pm 
Abbylin,
Welcome to the forum. I have some expertise in the areas of your concerns and I would like to help you. However I have hesitated to reply to your post publicly out of concern for being called into question for anything I might say that could be construed as contrary to what another has already posted on your thread. Having said that, I think I am safe to say a couple of things for the benefit of the masses....the rest of what I have for you, I will send via PM.
As far as the spreading of your good news by medical professionals.....Oh my gosh, that is such an egregious violation of Title II of HIPAA that you would really be remiss to not report it. Most all organizations which handle sensitive medical information have a "Privacy Official" or similarly titled administrator who sees to it that the law is followed in regards to HIPAA. Most organizations have a policy in place to handle breaches of confidentiality which may involve anything from a warning to probation to immediate termination. This is a very serious breach and I think it should be reported immediately. You should be able to report in complete confidence so as to prevent bad feelings in case this is a friend of yours. I just think it's so important that everyone be aware of their rights and how important this is to protect all of the privacies to which we are still entitled.
As I said, I have a couple other things for you. I will PM you. And again....welcome!


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 7:30 am 
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Abbylin-

I hope you come back to check on this thread. Being on suboxone illegally will cause problems for you and your child. First, subutex is preferred by doctors for pregnant women, second your child may experience withdrawal from the naloxone in Suboxone which is why subutex is used in pregnant women- but you are not getting your medication from a doctor. I think now is a good time to consider getting professional help. Getting your meds off the street is dangerous, not to mention illegal and throw in being pregnant- I would hate to hear the possibilities.
If you don't mind me asking, what medical condition do you have that required those meds? Will the condition complicate things while pregnant? Getting the proper care is essential for you and the baby, please consider coming clean with a professional so that you can move forward without complications.
Please let us know how you are doing and take care of yourself-legally.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 5:55 pm 
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shelwoy wrote:
Abbylin-

I hope you come back to check on this thread. Being on suboxone illegally will cause problems for you and your child. First, subutex is preferred by doctors for pregnant women, second your child may experience withdrawal from the naloxone in Suboxone which is why subutex is used in pregnant women- but you are not getting your medication from a doctor.




I'm sorry but I must correct you. It's not the naloxone that is in suboxone that will cause withdrawal ( naloxone is inactive unless suboxone is injected) it's the buprenorphine that causes the withdrawal. You are correct to say that subutex is preferred by Dr's. I have seen pregnant women that have been on subutex and suboxone.


To OP your doing the right thing by being truthful.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 5:08 pm 
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Congrats on your pregnancy, and for looking for any options that will help you not only be a better person to yourself, but will help you be the best mommy that you can.

It is true that Suboxone off the street can be very dangerous. Recently JAMA reported on a woman -- a Suboxone and addiction drug researcher in fact -- who died because she injected what she THOUGHT was suboxone. Now I doubt you inject your Suboxone; however, the bottom line is that the fake Suboxone she took was manufactured illegally in another country, looked JUST like Suboxone, and was significantly cheaper. She didn't even actually OD... the drug itself caused her to stop breathing properly, so she died of asphyxiation. Pretty scary stuff. A professional with a PhD... nobody is exempt... addiction doesn't discriminate.

I have to say, in the midst of my opiate addiction I was sooooo afraid to get professional help, because I have a small child and I thought the professionals would call CPS on me. I finally surrendered anyway, and asked every one of the drug counselors I was working with if anyone would do this. They all basically said no... now if I were living in an abandoned building with no heat or water, or the father was not around or was in the same situation, then perhaps. But I would be okay. The doctors I see for Suboxone agreed, and now that I am newly pregnant and on Suboxone, I think my doctor would have shared that fact with me. The thing is, we are in RECOVERY. It is not the same. The good thing is that your Suboxone doctor would take urine from you on a regular basis. If you are showing no signs of use, then why would they report you?!!! You are getting better! Now I have heard from a number of women however that certain HOSPITALS are required to report to CPS when a child is born with a substance in their system, so this is definitely something you would want to discuss with your Suboxone doctor well in advance.

Believe me, you can only benefit by sharing the truth about where you are right now with those who can help you. I hope you live in an area where those doctors are not difficult to come by, and where most doctors or counselors won't look at you funny given your situation (and who often send women straight to the methadone clinic).

Another thing I REEEEALLY want to point out, because you did not mention this part (although you may already know all this): it's not just the meds you need darling... it's the entire recovery process that will save you. I admire how strong you are and have been in realizing you had an issue, and in doing everything possible to try and make it go away. I know a PA does not work WITH meds... but you and I both know how easy it is to convince a medical professional to write you a script, especially if it is your counterpart from school or good buddy you work with. Even if you have no intention of ever doing that, you must remember that addiction is a cunning and powerful disease and as addicts, we often do things we don't even realize we are doing ("legitimate" tooth pain for example can lead us down an ugly path!). If you haven't already embraced the NA idea, or picked up any of the NA literature, please do. The process is a tried and true way of not only staying clean, but RECOVERING as well (two totally different things). Go to a meeting. Raise your hand and say you are new, and you want to get -- and stay -- better. It's not only a place where people speak to your soul... there is a beautiful process of soul work (the 12 steps) that goes with NA and it helps you to become a more authentic person in general (I think everyone could use it... very deep and introspective stuff). Couple NA meetings and ACTIVELY working the steps with group meetings, individual counseling, and a solid recovery plan/process that is right for you, and you are well on your way to a very happy and abundant life. You can be naturally happy and healthy again!

I will leave you with one final comment... since you are going to be working in the medical field, perhaps at some point you can EMBRACE your experience with addiction rather than be ashamed by it. There are millions upon millions of struggling people out there who have secret lives of addiciton and are in complete misery. If you have a God of your understanding, perhaps you can decide that your God wants you to use this experience to GIVE BACK and help others in need, and perhaps the platform of being a medical professional will give you the means to do so. I know this is hard to think right now while you are pregnant and all eyes are on you (and these eyes are often judging you for every darn thing you eat, let alone the meds you take!!!), but please try to find some peace with the fact that everything happens for a reason, and I promise, once you understand what a JOYOUS PROCESS recovery can be, you will be grateful to have the opportunity to turn what once seemed like such a tragedy based on bad choices, and turn them into blessings for yourself and possibly even for others. :-) As they say in NA, "we can only keep what we have by giving it away."

Good luck sweetie -- I will keep you in my prayers! Let me know if you need any referrals to Sbx doctors in your area and I will ask my doctor to give me some resources for you.

PS -- I read somewhere in this thread that someone said buprenorphine causes withdrawal. It does NOT cause withdrawal... it is a partial agonist. It's the Naloxone that counter effects opiods, not the buprenorphine. In fact, that's what Subutex is: it's just buprenorphine withOUT the Naloxone. I took buprenorphine many years ago when it was a purple jelly first introduced and it actually helps with withdrawal, but people were shooting it and ODing on it, so now it is combined with Naloxone and this combination makes Suboxone -- this way if it were injected people should not OD (although I'd say that anything is possible!!!). Perhaps someone confused Naloxone with Naltrexone or something? Just wanted to make sure you know that buprenorphine does not cause withdrawal... it actually helps with withdrawal. It is the Naloxone that can send you into withdrawal... so if you show up at the Suboxone doctor NOT sick (still high on opiates for example), taking Suboxone can actually send you into withdrawal. This is why they ask you not to use on the day you come in for your first treatment. :-) Thanks for listening.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:36 am 
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buprenorphine has a higher affinity for the opiate receptors it will over ride anything you take after it... Suboxone and subutex will compete with the opioid molecules and replace them in the body’s opioid receptor sites. This is why you have to be be in withdrawals before you take your first Sub. or you will experience Precipitated Withdrawals. The Naloxone is not active at all sublingually . The Naloxone is there to prevent sub from being injected. The naloxone in sub is only active when injected.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:31 pm 
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Thank you Jonella for clarifying. :-) I figured you didn't mean to say "it's the buprenorphine that causes the withdrawal" but I def wanted to make sure OP knew that.


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 Post subject: subutex and pregnancy
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:45 pm 
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Abbylin-I hope you have by now found a sub doctor and are taking them legally. In any case, there is no law, at least not one here in CT- that requires that CPS be notified regarding sub treatment and having a baby. When I had mine 4 years ago, they didn't know much about sub, but my sub doc told me it didn't make much difference whether I took suboxone or subutex, since the naloxone doesn't really get absorbed via the mucous membranes or gi tract anyhow. He switched me to subutex just in case, and then back to suboxone afterwards. My daughter never really showed any outward signs of withdrawal (although she had other unrelated complications). good luck with your pregnancy.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:13 am 
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I just went through this with my daughter, she is still in the nicu for withdrawrals. My wife was down to about 2mg per day(of Suboxone) the last two months of pregnacy. In MA, Child services is called whenever a newborn needs any medication for withdrawrals. We spoke to DCFS here in mass and he just asked some questions runs background on the parents and spoke with our other two children.
She should be coming home soon and is doing very well.

Eric


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