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 Post subject: Pregnant & stoppping
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:53 pm 
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Long story short. I have been on subs for 2 1/2 years. Found out I am going to have a baby back in April. I was taking 8 mg per day. Since then I am down to 1 mg as of four days ago. I took it down by .5 every two weeks. This is my 6 day on 1 mg. So in 8 more days I will be going down to .5 mg. From what I have read this is where it might get tough. My doctor told me to expect for my baby to have NAS so that is why I am stopping. Actually I am kinda happy to be stopping just never had a reason to I guess. I have read about the liquid tapers on here and think I might try that. So if anyone else out there has any hints or suggestions let me know. I am 16 weeks, so mif I feel like crap on .5 mg I still have time to go back and slow it down. I have not felt any uncomfortableness at all yet so I hoping that is a good sign. I can't wait to start going to the broom again. I know that is gross but I really am. That is the worse sdie effect of it all.
Wish me Luck


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 2:00 pm 
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I don't have any experience having a child on sub, but I've read many posts on the subject. First of all are your doctors involved with you on this? Did they switch you to subutex instead of suboxone? I understand your desire to come of off sub, but from what I've read, you shouldn't stop taking it while you're pregnant. Have you read some of the other pregnancy posts yet? What I've read is that stopping sub places the baby at more risk of harm than staying on it does. Hopefully some of the people with this personal knowledge and/or education on this will respond and confirm (or deny) if this is true. Either way, your sub doc should be told of your pregnancy and your ob/gyn should be told that you're on sub. (Maybe you've already done this.)

I wish you the very best and please let us know how you're doing.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:50 pm 
Congrats on your pregnancy Subbymommy! How exciting this time is! I'm sorry that you're having to deal with the issue of buprenorphine and the potential effects of it to your pregnancy/baby. If I were in your shoes, I must admit it would be a tough call. There would be a part of me that would very much want to deliver my baby 'drug' free. On the other hand, I would have to seriously weigh the consequences of stopping the medication at such a critical time. I agree with Hatmaker in that if your OB isn't aware you're on the medication, he/she really needs to be notified and your Sub doc needs to know as well. I think Hatmaker also mentioned that is preferred to have pregnant women on Subutex (bupe without the naloxone) just to reduce the risks by eliminating a drug (naloxone) that is not imperative to treatment with bupe.
As far as what I have gathered from the minimal amount of studies I have been able to locate on the subject.....the risk of stopping buprenorphine during pregnancy have to do with the risk of relapse to former drugs of choice, and the risk of going through opiate withdrawal during pregnancy which obviously can lead to extreme stress, insomnia, anxiety and physical symptoms such as diarrhea, cramping and even premature contractions. So it would seem logical to me that those risks would be greatly elevated by coming off a higher dose of bupe, at least much moreso than if one were to taper off very, very slowly. In which case I would think it would possible to do without causing harm to yourself or the baby. HOWEVER, I am not a doctor or an expert and you really are well-advised to discuss your plans with your doctors before attempting to discontinue the medication.
I also encourage you to read through the multiple threads on this forum under this category of 'Pregnancy.' You will find so much good information there....many positive outcomes along with several not-so-positive stories. I do recall one young lady who was desperately trying to get off Sub toward the end of her pregnancy and ran into problems and it just didn't seem advisable at all for her to try to stop her meds.
In my opinion, a lot depends on where you're at personally in your recovery. As with anyone who is comtemplating stopping bupe, you've got to be at a really good place, both mentally and physically, in your recovery. Any risk associated with continuing on Sub throughout your pregnancy would be heavily outweighed by setting yourself up for pregnancy complications due to stopping the med, or by winding up with a relapse during your pregnancy or shortly thereafter. Your baby needs, more than anything else, a healthy and stable Mommy to get him/her safely into the world and then raise him or her in a stable environment, right?
One more thing to keep in mind.....You are doing nothing wrong by being on a medication which has been legally prescribed to you, to treat a potentially life-threatening condition that you have. Should you decide to continue on bupe, you may encounter some unjustified 'judgment' from a healthcare provider here or there along the way, but hold your head high and know that you are doing what is right for you and your baby.
Sorry, one more thing again....I'm impressed that you've gotten your dose down as low as you have without much difficulty. That, in itself, should reduce potential risk to you and the baby, and will be of great help if you need pain control measures during labor or after delivery. So good for you! Just don't let yourself get on unsteady ground recovery-wise by pushing yourself too hard to finish a taper.
Hope you'll read up and continue to post here. You'll find lots of good info and support. Again....congrats to you!


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:55 am 
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I have read everything that I could find on the internet. My ob says I cn stay on it, just expect my baby to have NAS. My sub dr says I go off slowly. Nothing to quick. They did switch me to subutex. Today is my 10 day on 1mg. I long as I feel fine I am asuming there should be no problems as I do this for the baby. Noody knows about anything except my husband so I really do not want all of this to come out after I have my baby and it has NAS. That would be a hard situation to explain. Plus I could not stand my baby being in the hospital for an extra ouple of weeks.
I will keep evryone posted.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 3:54 am 
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Congrats on your expecting. I just wanted to share a little with you. I wish I had some advise to you on making your weaning off subutex easier. I have had two children on Subutex. My OB and subutex doctor both had little consern for tapering down. I was told as long as I was feeling ok the baby was ok. Maybe just don't go into full blow withdrawl. .5 mg if I'm not mistaken is breaking a 8mg tablet into 16 equal pieces. Every ones withdrawl symptoms are different. I once missed an appointment and the doctor was on vacation and couldn't get in for a week. I went cold turkey at 4 mg. I didn't have any vomiting. I had frequent bowel movements, sweats, trouble sleeping, muscle aches, and just felt tired all that week. It was nothing like the withdrawl from herion and fentenal. I sometimes think mental state has something to do with some parts of the withdrawl(it has with me). I think when I have weaned in the past when I'm scared it is alot worse than when I have weaned on my own with out being pushed by any one.

Well what I really wanted to say is that if you can get off the subutex earlier in the pregnancy the easier it may be. When I got pregnant with my first we didn't know the risk of NAS. My subutex doctor and ob didn't think their was much of chance of NAS. They didn't mention it until I was 7 months along. I was able to cut my dose down from 28 mg a day to 8 in the first 6 months. I actually went down to 4mg then the last month I started having trouble with withdrawl even though I had not reduced my dose in a month. I wasn't gaining weight and cravings were getting to me and I went back up to 8mg at 7 months. The extra blood in the system was making the dose not as effective and weaning further was very hard. Well our son stayed in the hospital for 21 days. It was the most awful feeling. We were told that he was going to need to stay their for 5 days to be watched. At 36 hours they put him on morphine. The scale they watch the baby is very subjective. He hardly cried( They told me he had cried that night they ordered the morphine, but I was able to console him with walking him around), he sneezed here and their, he startled easily sometimes, he had a hard suck, sometimes he had a little shake to his hands. The thing I was conserned about was he spit up his first feeding. After that when he ate they would insert an NG tube into his stomache to see if he was digesting his food. Well he wasn't so the would suck up the milk that was in there. The hospital where we were at rotated doctors every 2 days. The nurses wanted to start him on morphine earlier, but the first doctor didn't want to. Well as soon as the second doctor took over he started James on morphine. Every thing seemed to go down hill from their. The morphine depressed his oxagen stats so he need to be put on oxagen. The morphine made him sleep all the time and it was hard to get him to eat and he started to loose weight. I had went to RN school. I never ended up getting lisenced, but worked for many years as a student nurse, nurse tech, and LPN graduate nurse. The nurses didn't seem to fallow the Dr. orders. The order for morphine would read x mg every 4 to 6 hours as need. Well they would give it every 4 to 6 hours weather he needed it or not. Sometimes he would be asleep for the whole 4 to 6 hours and the would give it to him when he was sleeping. Each doctor we had seemed to just carry on the orders from the doctor before. I stayed with my son day and night. I tried keeping him from crying so that they wouldn't give him the morphine. It was harder as he got older, because the nurses were use to freshly born babies that typically sleep and don't cry. I had a daughter before my son and when I brought her home she cried every night(I had never done a drug in my life back then). I was able to board at the hospital and he was in a special room in the nursery where it was quite, dark, and we could keep the stimulation low. At night I told them to call me when he woke up so I could care for him and I never left his side while he was awake. My husband and I talked to the doctors every day and voiced our concerns. It was at about day 10 the hospital one "angle" doctor listened to us. He made a plan to wean the morphine and every doctor after that fallowed his orders. We still had issues about him getting the morphine when it wasn't needed. We looked into having him transferred to another hospital. When we asked to read the nurses notes and his chart they started paying a little closer to our concerns. Most of the nurses would tell us why they thought he needed a dose of morphine. I think that it was written in his chart that we needed to be notified or attempted to be notified to give him the morphine. I had a copy of the NAS score sheet and did my own assesments and write down the time morphine was given. Most of the doctors just blindly trusted the nurses judgement. I finally was able to give the example to the doctor of James getting morphine in his sleep. That put an end to some of the over medicating. The last week he was their he would only get 1 dose of morphine a day. He had a fussy period at about 4 am and his crying would bring up his score enough to get a dose. Other than around 4 am I never heard him cry. This was the hospitals first baby born on subutex. Nobody had any first had experience treating subutex NAS. 3 days before we left the hospital I was talking to the doctor about how he was fussy after he ate and described his movements to her. She realized he had GERD. They started the medication for that and he never cried again.

6 months after having my first son very surprisingly we found out I was pregnant again. I was taking 4 mg's at the time. I had lots of teeth problems during the whole pregnancy that I had to increase medication to deal with the pain while waiting to get into the dentist and recovering from pulled teeth. So it seemed every time I got back down to 4 mg I start to have another dental problem go up to 24 mg for 3 weeks and spend a month weaning down again. I didn't want to go through what we went though with James. I figured the last 6 to 8 weeks of my pregnancy I would taper down as much as I could and 3 weeks before the due date I would go cold turkey and deal with it. If I was still going through withdrawl on my due date I would ask to be induced. Well I was very big with this pregnancy. My hips and back hurt so much. I could hardly get my one year old son out of his crib. There were days when I went shopping I'd have to stop and leave because of so much pain I couldn't walk. The closer the due date got the more scared I was witch(I think) made the withdrawl worse. At my due date I was still at 4mgs and it seemed that I was getting little effect from the subutex. The week before he was born I took 4mg every 3 days and nothing on the other two. The day I had him I hadn't had any subutex for 3 days. We had him at a different hospital than James. They were switching to electric charting the day I had him. I had him 1 hour after arriving to the hospital and they didn't get me into the system until 12 hours later that day. I had seen my OB two days before we had him and I told her that I hadn't taken any medication yesterday and that day. She had crossed the subutex off my med list. My OB wasn't their when I delivered and I don't think any one knew about the Subutex and if they did they didn't mention it. I didn't mention it either. I watched him and looked for the signs of NAS. He was starting to get a little fussy 24 hours after delivery. We went home that day and I had a score sheet from my subutex doctor gave me on infant NAS that I scored him on. Once we were home he was a bit fussy for 3 days. He sneezed a few times, sometimes had a little tremble, sucked hard, and got a little bit of skin break down on his chin from the swaddling blanket and the tremble. I started to get a little nervous that his scores were going to get over 8(the score that they typically start medication to help the NAS) and I would need to bring him back to the hospital. But every thing turned out fine. He needed a quite dark environment. Swaddling and holding him very tight helped a lot. He jut needed TLC for about a week, but after that he was a very happy baby.
I'm sorry this is so long. I just wanted to share with you my story. My point that I wanted to say was I do think it will be a lot easier if you are able to get off the subutex earlier than waiting until the end. I was in the same boat as you about nobody knowing about my past. My parents knew that I had been on subutex years before but didn't know that I was still on them. My husband knew of course but that was it. After we had James we had to tell my husbands family. They were very understanding. They only thing was that we were told that it was safe to get pregnant on it. I guess it doesn't do permament damage, but I wouldn't consider NAS safe. So we kind of had the I didn't know card to play. When we got pregnant the next time we told every one that asked I was weaning off. I wanted to be off of the Subutex so bad. I didn't want to relive what had happened with James, but the longer I waited the harder it was and the more scared I was. It was so hard taking care of my son the last months and the lousier I felt--the memories of James NAS were pushed a side. I will pray for you to have the strength to wean off completely. I felt like a failure when we brought Jacob home and I started seeing signs of NAS. I did the best I could. If I had to relive it I would have done some things different. I wouldn't have waited until the last months. I would have tried harder earlier on. The best of luck to you. Even if you aren't able to completely get of the subutex my advise is to stay on the lowest does as you possible can. Don't beat yourself up. As long as you give it your all that's all you can do. Even if your baby would happen to have some NAS he/she will end up being fine. The baby might have a longer hospital stay and need some extra TLC, but it is way better than you relapsing. But believe in your self, ask god for help, and give it your all. You are a lot stronger than you may think you are. I am rooting for you and keeping you in my prayers.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:53 am 
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When I had my first son he never ever stopped crying. This was not because of NAS since I did nothing after I found out that I was pregnant. So i am worried that if this baby cries alot they are automattically going to think it is from wd's.
Thanks for the story, it is good to hear all side the good, bad and ugly. I have thought about switching obs and not telling them about the sub since I am only taking 1 hopefully soon to be 0. This hospital has many sub deliverys so i really want to stay here and hopefully they will not assume that my baby is having wd just because i am on sub.

I have been feeling fine this week. No wd at all. Maybe some restless night the first couple nights but that was it. Some laziness in the morning but I think that is just from working 2nd shift and from being pregnant. So on Tuesday I am going from 1 mg to .5 mg if I can cut them up. There are some days I might take a little more or a little less than 1mg. Those subutex do not break like sub do. I have read about some liquid taper that i need to look up. I am not expecting any severe symptons since i usually split my dose in half. 4 to 2, 2 to 1, now 1 to .5. I hope. I just can not believe how strong this stuff is. I mean you can not even get off at 1 mg. Now I know why I felt so good over the last couple of years!!

As far as cravings go..I have none. I had been ready to get off the oxy for a long time. When you get to the point that you have to do so so much to get high then you just feel like crap I was done just could not go through it. So I am not worried about relapsing. I have cut all those people out of my life, so i think I am good on that end.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:54 pm 
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I am now down to .5 or .6 mg a day. I feel fine and it has been 3 days. So I am assuming I am fine. No weird things have happened with the baby. I am going to the dr to have an ultrasound on monday.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 12:00 pm 
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I am now feeling back to normal for the last week and a half. After about day 4 i started sleeping not at all and felt anxious that lasted about a week or so. But now I feel great. When I tapered to liquid I might have had been taking more than 1 mg it is hard to break up a pill to 1mg. So I am hoping that is why it took me so long to feeel normal. Nothing horrible though. I am at the third line after 1 ml so I am just going down down to the 4 line. There are 6 lines and I have no clue what they mean, so I deceided to go by lines.
So I THINK I am dropping down to about .4 mg. I have no cravings at all, but I was ready to be off pills when I started sub 2 years ago.


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 Post subject: still feelin good-great
PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 1:38 pm 
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I am now down to the second line on the liquid syringe. I do not know what mg i am taking, but i know i am taking less, a line less!? So on Monday i will be dropping to the next and last drop. If i feel any king of wd i will go back up to what i am on now, just to be safe. I think i will not except for sleep issues. i am soo excited about getting off of this 2 years waiting to do it, just needed an incentive to get off. So if eveything goes good I should be jumping off in 2 weeks from Monday. I would say i would be taking 0.05 mg or ml whatever.
Baby is doing great, everthing loos good


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:45 am 
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I recently had a baby on subutex (2mgs/day). I think you are doing the right thing by tapering as low as possible before you give birth. I wish you all the best. If you arent experiencing withdrawals currently your baby wont be either which is a great sign. You are doing so well hun keep up the good work! I know how hard it is to taper while you are pregnant, not only physically but mentally. My baby had mild withdrawals which was really tough but we made it through and he is perfectly healthy and normal now. You can PM me anytime if you want to hear more about my experience. Good luck hun and congrats on your pregnancy. xx

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:30 pm 
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subbymommy, i work closely with a wide range of people on suboxone, and i myself have been on suboxone for 9years (maintenance). there is a young pregnant gal in the groups i host, and i know the she is given a small dosage of subutex during her pregnancy, after delivery she will be transfered back to the minimum dose of suboxone that she needs. im not a physican and dont want to send the message that i am. this is simply my experience. it is working for her as well as the suboxone did. she has no cravings or withdrawls and she has been prescribed subutex for the first 6 months of her pregnancy. of course results may vary, as with any medication, but its my understanding that her baby is safer without the naloxone in suboxone. PLEASE, as all have mentioned here, be certain that your ob/gyn knows and more importantly is educated about suboxone and subutex. i wish u the best of luck and pray that eveything goes well for you. congratulations on this wonderful gift of child.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 7:04 pm 
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Well my pregnancy has progressed wonderfully, no complications. It took me 8 1/2 months to go from 4mg to none as of 6 nights ago. My dr recommended a slow taper to prevent me from going into labor. So i did. I am so happy that I did it slow the only w/d I felt in the whole process was really sleeping troubles and leg troubles at night. This is the first time I have not had drugs in me for atleast 8 years. I am excited since i have no cravings either. My baby is due this sunday so i will have been off of subs for over a week and before i dropped off i had been on a liquid of about 0.25 mg for about 6 weeks so everyhting should go great. Maybe getting pregnant was the reason i needed to get off of these.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 7:41 pm 
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WOW, what a beautiful story. I'm so happy you were able to reach your goal!

Congratulations on 6 days off!

I hope everything goes GREAT when your wee little baby decides to enter the world!!!


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 4:53 pm 
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What an awesome story and very reasssuring. Although many people discourage others from tapering while pregnant, if it is done safely and under a doctors care the outcome can be great. Both mom and baby free of opiate addiction. I am at 2mgs having quickly come down in my dose since I found out I was pregnant 3 weeks ago. Now that I'm starting to "feel" it, I'm going to slow it down a little. I have the backing of my doctor PLUS the backing of an obstetrician who specializes in addictions. They both agreed that it would be best if I got off sub and I feel strongly about avoiding any chance of my baby experiencing NAS. Reading the success stories is assuring. What does bug me is unsolicited advice from well meaning people saying NOT to taper. Obviously I've made up my mind. My doctors are on board and for someone to tell me what I'm doing is wrong really pisses me off. I will do this and I will have a baby born opiate free. Thank you for posting, the way you did it was great! Liquid taper is a good idea and I think I'll try it too. :)


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