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 Post subject: Pregnancy and suboxone
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 6:54 pm 
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Hi my name is Jessica
I had two pregnancies while on the drug suboxone/subutex. While I was pregnant I searched online for information that the doctors couldn't tell me. I wanted stories from moms . Stories regardless if they are good or bad but some information on what to expect while pregnant and after my baby was born. I found that there was a deficit on these stories. Mainly it was other mothers (pregnant) looking for information too. Im now trying to share my stories with anyone that was in the same state I was in 2 and 6 years ago. I'd anyone would like information on my personal story I would be happy to share. Many moms are preoccupied with their babies and rhey don't think to come back and update . If anyone has questions or wants to hear my stories you can leave your email in response and I will respond. Due to the nature of the stories I prefer to correspond by email. Good luck mamas


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 2:49 pm 
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Thank You Jzmama,

We have an entire section dedicated to Suboxone and pregnancy so please share your story there. That way we have accurate information instead of just gossip and guessing. Check it out.

Welcome to the forum!

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 12:34 am 
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Thanks Rule-- well said.

A couple years ago I was asked to give a presentation to a 'tri-county' area of Wisconsin about babies and children born to mothers on opioids-- women who went through pregnancy actively using opioids, or on maintenance agents like buprenorphine or methadone.

I did extensive literature searches. I found a large amount of information about 'NAS'-- neonatal abstinence syndrome-- that basically found that women on buprenorphine had a 50% chance of NAS in their babies. The NAS was milder in children of moms on buprenorphine than it was in children of moms on methadone. Moreover, the symptoms were much more 'prevalent' if the nurses knew that the moms were on buprenorphine. In other words, babies born to moms on buprenorphine were often seen as 'normal' until the nurses learned that the moms were on buprenorphine, and only THEN did they identify the babies as having NAS.

But that wasn't the surprising part. The surprising part was that I could find no studies that found abnormalities in children of mothers on opioids beyond NAS. There was no sign of the 'crack baby phenomenon'--- i.e. children with long-term problems because of their mothers' drug use.

I was surprised by that finding. I truly expected there to be SOME difference in those kids. But when other factors were removed through statistical analysis-- removing the effects of cigarette smoking (which clearly causes lower birth-weights) and less prenatal care (which increased risks of low birth-weight and complications at delivery), and obesity (which increases the risk of glucose intolerance and overweight babies)-- being on opioids did NOT act as an independent variable that increased the risk of morbidity. There was no increase in ADD, in hyperactivity, or in 'special needs' rates. There were no differences in cognitive performance in kids who born to moms on opioids, compared to other kids. Studies were done out to age 5 or 6... and no differences could be found.

The most interesting studies, at least to me, are the ones that prove me wrong. As I presented those results to the social workers, nurses, and other people at the talk I was giving, the audience was clearly as surprised as i was-- and almost appeared to be angry or disappointed. I kept getting the same question-- but what about LONG TERM? What sorts of things should we, as social workers and people in CPS look for? I kept repeating what I'd found-- and what I didn't find.

I'm sure there will always be people out there who assume those moms are hurting their kids... but honest, those moms should know that people have LOOKED for problems--- and can't find them. There ARE problems associated with smoking cigarettes, no prenatal care, obesity, and poverty (which is linked to other variables, but is also linked to problems independently for reasons that are not entirely clear). But you are NOT hurting your baby because you are on buprenorphine or methadone. It just ain't so.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 9:38 pm 
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I made this topic a sticky because Dr. Junig has written a very informative and important post.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:50 pm 
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Hi
I am a parent of a baby born addicted to subutex! The Drs made it a have to case in which they said if mother stopped the baby would die! My baby was born on Dec 28th 2016 and the mother was doing 4 Mgs at most everyday for the entire pregnancy it is now Feb 1 and my baby is still in the NICU. He is having to be winged off the drug by using morphine and phenylbarbital! It's the saddest sight having to watch a child withdrawal from this medication and to have the Drs tell you opioid addicted babies are better off than a "safe" drug to prescribe during pregnancy! With that being said comes this. F*** what they say if you feel as if your able to stop with no withdrawal symptoms to tough then STOP! Otherwise you will witness the saddest thing when you see an innocent child go threw hell just for big Pharm to get paid! Besides it's not there children in the hospital withdrawing


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:23 pm 
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Just because you have one story with anecdotal evidence doesn't mean that you know the truth about suboxone. You underestimate the major cravings that opiate addicts have. When they are on buprenorphine they are stable and their babies are stable.

Doctors actually know what they are talking about. If a pregnant mom goes through withdrawal, so does her baby and the chances of miscarriage are high enough that this protocol has been set and followed for many years. Would you have rather have no baby right now because of miscarriage?

Opiate addicts have changes in their brains that make their addiction a life long battle. Yes, they tend to be afraid of feeling withdrawals because it's one of the worst feelings in the world that comes with depression that makes some want to kill themselves. But just like any pregnant mom who has a disease or a mental disorder like addiction, there are certain medications that they can't help but take. Some make the chance of premature birth higher and those babies spend months in the NICU. Any parent who watches their baby go through that has feelings of inadequacy that they did something to cause their baby harm. As an adoptive parent, you get to sit on a high horse knowing that you, personally, did nothing wrong. Well good for you. I didn't become an opiate addict until my mid-30s and never thought I was susceptible. I hope that you can go through life without people judging you, so you never feel that stigma that people like you make worse. Good luck on leading your blameless life.

Amy

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 8:11 pm 
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Amy-Work In Progress wrote:
Good luck on leading your blameless life.

Amy

whoa. that was harsh!
i just assumed that it was his s.o. that had the baby and not an adoption. did i miss something?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:59 am 
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The way "mother" was mentioned did not sound like the parent writing this was close to her. That's why I assumed an adoption took place.

"F*** what they say if you feel as if your able to stop with no withdrawal symptoms to tough then STOP!"

Personally, I thought this statement was very harsh and inconsistent with reality. My thought about the person's blameless life is regarding the fact that Subtruth has never walked in that pregnant opiate addict's shoes.

Also, Subtruth was judging a person with a disorder like the birth mom as if she is immoral. The stigma toward addicts is wrong and comes from the "Moral Model" of addiction that was popular during the Victorian era. We have made a lot of progress in addiction science since then, yet people feel free to come here and assume that a pregnant mom on buprenorphine is making immoral choices and could just stop if she wanted. I'm sorry. That view is outdated and incredibly harmful to getting addicts the treatment they need.

The Subtruth has not researched buprenorphine during pregnancy or he or she would not be ignorant enough to suggest that an addict could just quit 4mg of buprenorphine and have the baby not feel the consequences. At least when a baby develops NAS after it is born it can receive the proper care in the NICU. When a baby with NAS gets treated they aren't in withdrawal, but are being carefully and slowly titrated down. It might take a long time, but the baby is not suffering from withdrawals. That is a mischaracterization of what happens when a baby has NAS.

I have no apologies to give for Subtruth who has not done any research that I can tell, and who is dangerously suggesting that pregnant opiate addicts should jump off their medication.

Amy

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:04 pm 
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I don't think u need to give any apologies either Amy. I see no apologies from the poster judging someone else. As a moderator it's constant seeing ppl make judgement and it gets overwhelming, definitely for me anyway.

I wasn't addicted until after my pregnancies, but if I had been, buprenorphine would have absolutely been my choice and I would have taken it without a doubt. There's been plenty of mothers give birth on buprenorphine who's baby wasn't addicted..... something u would not be able to say about methadone or any other opiates. It is safe and it is the best alternative. There's no way I could have tapered off anything during my pregnancy and experience withdrawal. A pregnant mother goes through so very much, withdrawal, to me, would have been impossible.

I know I'm all over the place because I haven't felt good for two days, but I had to comment on this.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:02 pm 
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Sometimes, we wince at the truth. It doesn't make it any less true. Plus, we get really tired of the bashing and can only take so much. It's good Amy answered it and not me. I tend to not hold back if I feel strongly about a subject. There must be many people over at Subsux.com who hate me from all the years of banning those who post untrue statements saying they are facts. My skin is now very thick and I rarely ever get offended by a post where I regret what I've typed. Luckily, we have the edit function and a member can also delete their post or ask a moderator for help.

I'll be surprised if he/she comes back. I hope so, for recovery sake.

rule

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:55 am 
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Subtruth wrote:
Hi
I am a parent of a baby born addicted to subutex! The Drs made it a have to case in which they said if mother stopped the baby would die! My baby was born on Dec 28th 2016 and the mother was doing 4 Mgs at most everyday for the entire pregnancy it is now Feb 1 and my baby is still in the NICU. He is having to be winged off the drug by using morphine and phenylbarbital! It's the saddest sight having to watch a child withdrawal from this medication and to have the Drs tell you opioid addicted babies are better off than a "safe" drug to prescribe during pregnancy! With that being said comes this. F*** what they say if you feel as if your able to stop with no withdrawal symptoms to tough then STOP! Otherwise you will witness the saddest thing when you see an innocent child go threw hell just for big Pharm to get paid! Besides it's not there children in the hospital withdrawing


Hi , I agree with a lot you said..They made it out like my baby would die if I quit. I weaned myself from 6mg. Bupe to .5 mg by my 8 no the of pregnancy. I feared having a premature baby during the 2nd trimester..and by the 3rd trimester, well its not a good time to stop taking bupe. Now I have to be without my baby he's 2 weeks old. Its funny cuz they say how safe it is ..etc. And don't recommend tapering let alone quitting..BUT when your baby is being weaned..you wish to God you would have quitted.By day 3 he started scoring 7 and 8's. It broke my heart.We didn't want our son on morphine! But had no say..and child services has to get involved when a baby is having WD.He is doing well..hopefully only a few more days left. But seriously nothing prepares you..for this, nothing. My taper didn't matter.The OB has nothing to do with whether your baby stays or not ladies..its the pediatrician call.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:04 am 
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[quote="Amy-Work In Progress"]The way "mother" was mentioned did not sound like the parent writing this was close to her. That's why I assumed an adoption took place.

"F*** what they say if you feel as if your able to stop with no withdrawal symptoms to tough then STOP!"

Personally, I thought this statement was very harsh and inconsistent with reality. My thought about the person's blameless life is regarding the fact that the Subtruth has never walked in that pregnant opiate addict's shoes.

Also, Subtruth was judging a person with a disorder like the birth mom as if she is immoral. The stigma toward addicts is wrong and comes from the "Moral Model" of addiction that was popular during the Victorian era. We have made a lot of progress in addiction science since then, yet people feel free to come here and assume that a pregnant mom on buprenorphine is making immoral choices and could just stop if she wanted. I'm sorry. That view is outdated and incredibly harmful to getting addicts the treatment they need.

Subtruth has not researched buprenorphine during pregnancy or he or she would not be ignorant enough to suggest that an addict could just quit 4mg of buprenorphine and have the baby not feel the consequences. At least when a baby develops NAS after it is born it can receive the proper care in the NICU. When a baby with NAS gets treated they aren't in withdrawal, but are being carefully and slowly titrated down. It might take a long time, but the baby is not suffering from withdrawals. That is a mischaracterization of what happens when a baby has NAS.

I have no apologies to give to Subtruth, who has not done any research that I can tell, and who is dangerously suggesting that pregnant opiate addicts should jump off their medication.

Amy[/quote


Hi there..Yes..that's why I was slow with my taper while pregnant..we tried for a year to have this baby and I wanted to make sure he would be Ok. I even stopped working out..and prayed everyday that he would make it. So I figured if I tapered to a very low dose..I would be taking him home like normal.However If I could of quit without feeling like crap , I would have (the 2nd trimester is the best time..looking back now) bupe has a half life of 17 days! So even if a mom quits towards the end..baby can still have WD. yes once baby is on morohine..they are actually doing better than before..my son seems happy and content.


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