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 Post subject: possible relapse?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:50 am 
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I've made a previous post about my bf on subs and sex. Here's a little backround info if you don't know my situation:

Been with my bf for close to 4 years. He got hooked on oxys 6 months into the relationship. Got clean and went on subs about a year and half ago til now. I am pregnant with his child and am due in less than 2 weeks.

Ok, so I am optimistic in his recovery but have been through hell and back with him during his relapses in the past. I was confident that he was clean all this time but I don't know if it's cause I'm gonna give birth soon and am extra hormonal, but I'm starting to get suspicions of him using again. First of all, he has been gradually losing weight. He's always been the athletic type that has a fast metabolism, and I thought the stresses from being unemployed was the result from it as well. He found a great stable job 6 months ago and he started gaining weight again. But around a couple months ago his weight has been down again. I know it could also be stress with a first child coming but he's down to around 135 lbs at 5'9 and I'm really getting worried. Second, one of 'signs' I look out for is my bf constantly giving reasons to get out of the house. He smokes cigs and usually smokes out on our balcony. But recently he will go out the front to smoke, or "to his work truck to get something", or is visiting with a neighbor across the ways that he is friendly with now, or running to the store to pick up more cigs, you get the point.
NOw I know that you can't get high from pain pills if you're on subs. But I did a lot of surfing on the net and I HAVE found of some experiences of people actually getting high off of pain pills after only 12 hrs of taking subs. I'm sure it depends on the dosage and how fast your body metabolizes (?I'm guessing) the drugs. To be honest, I don't know if he takes it every night cause I haven't been keeping track as I used to. I don't know if he takes it in the morning like he says he does cause he is gone to work hrs before I'm awake. There were times when I felt he was lying about having subs in his mouth, but it was usually when I wanted to have a serious convo and in the situation I thought he was only trying to get out of having a "talk" with me. But looking back at it, it could also be him "acting" like he's on subs.
Sorry for it being so long. Any advice or opinions? As recovering addicts, does it seem to you like he is slipping?


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 9:08 am 
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It does sound like this is stressing you out a bit, and I'm sorry for that. But, it's really hard to tell based on what you've described. Nothing you've said jumps out at me as pointing to him using - at least not to me. But I'm just one person. It could be the stress of the baby coming, work, or other possible things. What dose of suboxone is he on (or supposed to be on)? What do his pupils look like? Is he spending any more money than he usually does?

When it comes to taking opiates while on subs, like you said, it does depend on the dose he's taking as to whether or not he can get high. Usually even after 12 hours a full agonist opiate can't be felt with suboxone in one's system - USUALLY.

Have you discussed his mood and/or recent behavior with him at all? (Or are you comfortable doing so?) It might be worth it to ask him about it. Perhaps he has some new stress at work that you're unaware of. Or he's more stressed out and anxious about the first baby coming than you are aware of. If it were me, I'd try to talk to him about it. I know that can be easier said than done though. Good luck with it and keep us posted.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 9:28 am 
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I know I have to talk to him. But from the past experiences, he will never admit unless I have some sort of hard evidence or proof. And even then it takes awhile for him to come clean. I kind of want to buy a drug test and have him take it. I've told him in the past that I will pop one on him randomly and he agreed. But I'm getting different answers online about whether or not subs show up as opiates on the tests.

Sometimes his eyes are glazed over and his pupils look bigger. But I always thought it was pot, which he said he stopped using too. He was supposed to have stopped smoking pot the beginning of the year ( a realistic date he set for himself when I brought it up) but I've caught him since. Maybe that's what he's hiding?
Oh, and he's taking about 3/4 mgs a day.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 9:37 am 
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Is he on three-quarters of a mg a day or 3-4 mg a day? If he's taking 3-4 mg a day I suppose it's possible that he could get high if he stopped the suboxone for a day or two, but that depends on what he's using to try to get high. Everyone is different and I've known people that can't feel a full agonist for weeks after stopping subs and others that have relapsed and felt a high after only days, but they used something like heroin in larger doses, but that's pretty rare (from what I know).

I don't think marijuana would make his pupils larger if he's still on suboxone. Generally suboxone makes one's pupils rather small (mine have been pinpoint since I've been on it).

I know it's hard to talk to him about this. What if you didn't ask him about using at all, but instead just asked him about his stress level? Check in with his work situation, ask how he's feeling about the upcoming birth-that sort of thing. I'd just tell him that he seems more stressed out than usual and that I wanted to see how he's doing. It's a safe place to start the conversation, I think.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 11:38 am 
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Firstly, I need to say that I haven't seen your guy, or hung around him, so I can't really offer any ideas to be certain of from the other side of the world.

However, I have been in the position many times of using in a relationship, relapsing in a relationship, and most importantly being so ashamed that I fell back into the "deny deny deny" mentality that we are all so good at.

Dilated pupils are a definite sign of something going amiss. Meth / speed, coke and hallucinogens all do the dish plate eyes (or UFO eyes, depeding on your trip). Weight loss is one of the first noticeable signs of going on a meth or coke binge. Also, suboxone does not block the effects of these drugs whatsoever. It's not too uncommon for people to start on suboxone or methadone, only to switch to other drugs - usually crystal meth or cocaine. Then they're nursing an opiate habit and an illicit addiction!

However, there are some medical conditions that cause dilated pupils. Psychosis, mania to name a couple. They can also cause a person to lose appetite and often act like they're under the influence of drugs (there's a story there! but later).

Many people in the area where I'm from go on Suboxone, find that they can no longer use heroin / oxy's / whatever (BUMMER) so they just go for their lesser preferred options - generally speed, or cocaine. Why do they do this? I put it down to a lack of motivation to really make the big changes. Don't consider this a doom and gloom statement. This is a stage everyone goes through on the path to recovery, and many of us slip back into this phase more than once.

A quick suggestion? You need to find a way to approach your man with some assertive warmth, tell him you know what's going on. The most important thing that can save your guy from getting worse would be to break through his dishonesty, then work with him. You need to sit down with him at his level, hold his hand (awwe shucks - but serious) and tell him you know what's going on and you don't blame him, and that it's the lies that hurt more than anything in the world.

I know from my past experience that the moment I start lying to my partner, family and close friends, then the game's on. I'm a one man riot going nuts in my addiction. The deception has left me isolated from anyone healthy in my life. Honesty is such a saviour to the addict folk and if you can somehow pull him back to a space where he'll level with you openly, then you two are in with a chance.

Conversely, he could be suffering bulimia and early onset cataracts, but given the history this doesn't seem likely. Just reminding u that I'm no guru and I'm just fingers on a keyboard.

Keep your eyes open for glass "meth" pipes (we call them crackies, cos we don't get much crack down here), spoons with residue / broken bits of cotton buds or torn up cigarette filters, powder residue on glass tables / desks / mirrors. Pay attention to his jaw movements - can he still eat a juicy steak with ease? Is he sleeping odd hours? Is he moody and standoffish? Even moodier than while indulging the opiates? No need to go snooping. People who use stimulants too long will eventually get careless.

Has he admitted to using speed / crystal / coke / crack in the past? If so, that would be a bit of an indicator. Most of us have our drug of choice, but there's others that also have the potential to bring us unstuck.

If there's any attitudinal changes towards the relationship, I'd say that the barrier and isolation created by his dishonesty is the main trigger. Break through that, and you're half way there - but far from in the clear.

Good luck, and I feel for you in your predicament. And most importantly, don't fret. I've pulled through these moments many times. Humans have a remarkable ability to bounce back. Us folk just enjoy (ha) the process so much we often do it again and again.


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 Post subject: relapse?
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 12:28 pm 
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I know you must be so stressed out just 2 weeks before the baby is due and now possibly not being able to count on him to be there. I hope you have a good support system...friends, family and hopefully your bf is not using and will be accountable and reliable.

That said, it sounds suspicious. And yes he might have all sort of other disease but let's get real. It's doubtful he has bulemia or cataracts or whatever.But dilated pupils are not normal. Demerol also causes dilated pupils FYI even tho it is opioid. Someone in recovery who starts losing weight and then starts deviating from the usual and changing it up more is suspicious to me. If he agreed to drug testing I'd pop one. It might not show sub but it would possibly show other drugs...but first I'd talk to him.

I'm guessing he has shame and fear and most likely doesn't want to let you down and wants to be there for you. Addiction is a complex disease process and denial is at the core of it. So if he's relapsed his fallback is to lie. You need to take care of yourself and your baby, obviously and this kind of stress if not good for you two. I would talk to him, but try to disarm him somewhat....start out gently telling him how you feel and then ask him what he thinks about what you've just said. KWIM? Don't accuse just stick to how YOU feel...afraid, lonely, whatever it is. Just talk about your fears and your feelings and the upcoming birth and then put it on him by asking him what he thinks about what you've just said. See what he says. Maybe he isn't using...maybe it is just his own stress. Maybe once he hears you talk about your feelings/fears he will open up about his.

No matter what happens you need to focus on you and getting ready for the baby. It's hard to detach from someone who is using (IF he is) but you can detach with love....meaning take care of you set boundaries with him and still love him but not focus on him. He needs to do the work of recovery. And if he has relapsed, and is not getting back into recovery well then you obviously have bigger decisions to make...but one thing at a time.

I wish you well. And gather your support around you....get help from family and friends, don't suffer alone in this.


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