It is currently Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:28 am



All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Our Sponsors





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Possible Lawsuit
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:10 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:35 am
Posts: 2801
Location: Southwest
Hey All,

A lot of you know what health issues I've been dealing with lately and next Wednesday I'm scheduled for another surgery.

The last surgery I had in November to remove part of my tongue was the most painful experience I've ever had. Now I truly know what a 10 is on the pain scale. All I could do is sit still and meditate to maybe get it down to a low 10 or high 9. That rarely worked.

My question is this. I explained being a Suboxone patient with my surgeon and asked if he was familiar with it and he said yes. The script he wrote in the hospital for me to take home was 30 Lortabs 10's with instructions to take one every 4-6 hours. They did absolutely nothing even taking two.

I went back two days later and again explained the tolerance issue with being a Sub user and that I was taking two instead of one. That made him visibly upset. He then gave me 30 Percoset 7.5's which again did nothing to relieve my pain and again I took two instead of the prescribed one.

This next surgery I'm going to explain it again but use the word Methadone to see if he'll understand then. I talked to my Sub doctor two days ago and he said I should have been given Morphine, oxy 60 or 80's and or a Fentanyl patch. And no, I could not get the two doctors to discuss my case.

What I am thinking is after this is over, to file a lawsuit against my surgeon for not supplying pain relief. Are they not supposed to do that for a painful surgery? If enough Sub patients going through surgery would also sue then maybe they'd actually do some research and educate themselves on how to treat us.

My wife was furious seeing me in so much pain and nothing helped. I spoke with a patient who had almost the same surgery and he stayed in the hospital for four days receiving Morphine and Norco for breakthrough pain and he isn't a Sub patient.

I'm just pissed off about the whole thing and believe an injustice was done to me and other Sub patients.

Next Wednesday's surgery is called a radical neck dissection. Don't Google it or you'll regret it. It's not pretty. This one will require an over night stay so I may get pain relief in the hospital if I can get them or my doctor to understand.

What do you think, should I sue?

_________________
Don't take yourself so damn seriously


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:48 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:39 am
Posts: 4028
Location: Sitting at my computer
Oh Rule, my heart just broke reading your post, then my blood boiled at that fucking idiot doctor of yours. IMO, he thinks you're an addict and therefore, you're not getting adequate pain relief because of that. Wow, I don't get furious too often, but I'm just livid right now.

I'm so sorry you're having to go through all of this, nobody deserves to be treated like that.

As far as suing your doctor, I certainly understand where you're coming from. If I were in your shoes, I'd be looking into suing him too.

_________________
Be kind to yourself. Our character defects do NOT define who we are!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:12 am 
Damn rule..I really feel for you. All of us, because a lot of doctors treat us like we have junkie tattooed on our foreheads.

I dont think suing will get you anywhere. Im not even sure you can get them to write you anything strong enough to really take the pain away. That's the thing doctors don't tell you about high dose Suboxone. It makes your tolerance go up higher than you can even imagine.

You need to find an understanding doctor that will discuss this with you before your procedure. Most of them don't know what Suboxone is and they don't care. I'm having the same problem preparing for an oral surgery. I got my Sub doc to agree to write the pain pills for this procedure. I'm seeing him Tuesday, let's hope he sticks to his word.

I hope you are feeling better soon.


Top
  
 
Our Sponsors
 Post subject: Docs
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:33 am 
Offline
Super Poster
Super Poster

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:22 pm
Posts: 101
Patient beware! I have a friend who just had radical prostate surgery, and he was given darvocet. He is not a sub patient. But darvocet? I told him Aleve would have been better.

I think it boils down to doctors having individual opinions on pain meds. Personally I would not go into a surgery without finding out beforehand what pain meds would be prescribed.

Being sub patients we have to be even more cautious. And I find it ridiculous that a surgeon would not consult your sub doc or vice versa.

I could see being ticked off enough to sue. Talk about the God complex. Makes me hate all doctors even though there are some good ones out there.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:21 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:43 am
Posts: 893
Location: AZ
I think if you can then go for it. I would set up a free consult with a lawyer to find out if a lawsuit for inadequate pain relief will fly. There are also sites where lawyers will answer legal questions for free ( I believe lawyers.com is one). If a lawyer thinks you have a case then go for it.

It is complete bullshit that your surgeon made you suffer and I hope he can be held accountable.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:13 pm 
Offline
6 Months or More
6 Months or More
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:31 pm
Posts: 182
Rule, GOD my heart broke reading that and the memory of my back surgery popped back in my head,that was my unreal pain.

I would Sue I would cheer you on!!!!! I feel that a doctor should treat you the way he would treat his mother,wife or daughter. I know we have to have alot to get pain relief but I think we should get it!!!! We are human and I believe it would wake up the doctor community if you did win!!!!

I Pray you get better relief this surgery and I will keep you in Prayer. Keep us posted.
Mel

_________________
Dreams are only Dreams unless you persue them


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Little More
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:36 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:35 am
Posts: 2801
Location: Southwest
What my Sub doctor did do was to refer me to a pain clinic. They called and I postponed an appt. because right now I don't have any pain. My PCP was just trying to help me through the next few months of surgery and radiation therapy which is very painful. I may call them back later if need be.

The main problem I have with suing this doctor is that he is the best there is as far as head and neck disease. He is a teaching professor and the only one in Nevada who can operate the robotic arm for surgery. A great surgeon but lacking in bedside manner. You all know the type. A brainiac with not a great amount of social skills. He is the one you want to operate on you. Who cares about bedside manner if he saves your life?

Maybe I'll just write a letter after this is all over and hope he'll read it and treat the next Sub/Meth patient with care.

And Ironic, I was on a low dose of Sub, 1mg. The problem was the tolerance didn't go down for over a week and by then the pain had subsided. This next one I'm stopping the Sub three days early and switching back to the Lortabs. I had one refill left of 30 and saved it for this occasion. Wish I had a weeks worth but a few days w/o Sub will help a little. And I am again at 1mg.

_________________
Don't take yourself so damn seriously


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 6:39 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:45 pm
Posts: 833
rule62'. i no the pain your going through, for i had surgery in that same area witch resulted in damageing my tong :evil: :x :cry: i was not on suboxone at the time, and suffered for 9 months with 300mgs liquid cherry oxycontin.
this is probably one of the 2 reasons i'm on subs now. the second reason was neck surgery from a car landing on top of me 7 years ago. funny the woman fell a sleep at the weel comeing down the hill hit the bankment ,flip'ed and over turned landing on my roof breaking her neck dying instantly wile i wake up 5 minute's later with her on top of me and then slid off and rested in the middle of the lane. i remember waking my surgery doc in the middle of the night' dying of pain. and i thought of suing? GOOD LUCK.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Possible Lawsuit
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 6:50 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 12:55 pm
Posts: 4
rule62 wrote:
Hey All,

A lot of you know what health issues I've been dealing with lately and next Wednesday I'm scheduled for another surgery.

The last surgery I had in November to remove part of my tongue was the most painful experience I've ever had. Now I truly know what a 10 is on the pain scale. All I could do is sit still and meditate to maybe get it down to a low 10 or high 9. That rarely worked.

My question is this. I explained being a Suboxone patient with my surgeon and asked if he was familiar with it and he said yes. The script he wrote in the hospital for me to take home was 30 Lortabs 10's with instructions to take one every 4-6 hours. They did absolutely nothing even taking two.

I went back two days later and again explained the tolerance issue with being a Sub user and that I was taking two instead of one. That made him visibly upset. He then gave me 30 Percoset 7.5's which again did nothing to relieve my pain and again I took two instead of the prescribed one.

This next surgery I'm going to explain it again but use the word Methadone to see if he'll understand then. I talked to my Sub doctor two days ago and he said I should have been given Morphine, oxy 60 or 80's and or a Fentanyl patch. And no, I could not get the two doctors to discuss my case.

What I am thinking is after this is over, to file a lawsuit against my surgeon for not supplying pain relief. Are they not supposed to do that for a painful surgery? If enough Sub patients going through surgery would also sue then maybe they'd actually do some research and educate themselves on how to treat us.

My wife was furious seeing me in so much pain and nothing helped. I spoke with a patient who had almost the same surgery and he stayed in the hospital for four days receiving Morphine and Norco for breakthrough pain and he isn't a Sub patient.

I'm just pissed off about the whole thing and believe an injustice was done to me and other Sub patients.

Next Wednesday's surgery is called a radical neck dissection. Don't Google it or you'll regret it. It's not pretty. This one will require an over night stay so I may get pain relief in the hospital if I can get them or my doctor to understand.

What do you think, should I sue?


it will be a waste of time and money for you to sue the dr or hospital because he did in fact offer and give you "some"pain relief medication,therefore you have no case no matter your argument,and im on your side here.The mistake that you have made here is that you told the dr that you are on suboxone and that was your mistake.What you should have done was just to stop takin your suboxone 3-5days or more before your surgery and then it wouldnt have made any difference how much pain medicine you recieved.In this day and time you cant be an honest person,it will backfire on you everytime,if we suboxne patients just use a little common sense we will be fine,but in my opinion,there was no need whatsoever for this surgeon or dr to know you are a suboxone patient,i mean had you quit takin it like i said before the operation,then it would not have been any issue at all.When you go back to the hospital or dr,dont even mention the word suboxone or addiction,when havin surgery this has no basis in your recovery at all.like i said,use common sense when you tell anybody your personel information about suboxne and bein an addict.think before you talk and good luck with the surgery and pain relief afterward.


Top
 Profile  
 
   
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:10 am 
Offline
Super Poster
Super Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:46 pm
Posts: 158
Doctors that don't give adequate pain medication I find have their minds made up way before you end up in their chair. Tongue surgery has got to be terrible at healing because look the properties that you are up against a warm wet saliva enviroment. Oh god I bet that was terrible on you and I am so sorry. My heart too ached reading your post. What an asshole.

I SUGGEST YOU DO SOME HOMEWORK BEFORE WEDNESDAY BY GETTING A GOOD PAIN MEDICINE CONVERSION CHART. I KNOW I HAD MY COUNSELOR AT MY CLINIC TRY TO CALL MY KIDNEY STONE DOCTOR ONE TIME AND SHE LEFT A DETAILED MESSAGE WITH HIS RECEPTIONIST EXPLAINING THAT DUE TO MY METHADONE DOSE I needed the following 195 milligrams Oxycontin to relieve pain. every 6 hours of it gave a second method of 285 milligrams of morophine.

Here is the link to the converter we used it does not include suboxone but I am sure there is a conversion chart for suboxone on the net somewhere. If not call the manufacturer and explain to them you want a pharmacological conversion to give to a surgeon.

http://www.globalrph.com/narcoticonv.htm

Opioid (Narcotic) analgesic converter
Converting From:
Step 1: methadone
Step 2: (Enter total daily dose in mg)190 mg
Incomplete cross-tolerance correction
Step 3: Reduction for incomplete cross tolerance: % 25
(Usual range: 25 - 75% reduction)
Converting To: oxycontin
Step 4: oral

Results
Based on your selections above, here is the result:
Equivalent dose for opiate selected in Step 4 above: 195.00 mg
Reduction for incomplete cross tolerance: 0 %

Chronic oral morphine equivalent dose is: 285.00 mg

(Note: If morphine was chosen, the conversion factor used was for chronic dosing only. ) Ideally, we recommend our desktop program for much greater control over these conversions).

_________________
Wishing you the best in love and life. Finallyachance.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:19 am 
Offline
Super Poster
Super Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:46 pm
Posts: 158
Conversion table other drugs equivalent to sub
Jul 24, 2008 - 3 comments
The below is what is equivalent if you were to obstain 3 to 5 days before
#Pain Killer Equivalent Doses (Oral)
1.2mg.............Buprenorphine (Bupe)
200mg............Codeine (Tylenol 2, 3, 4, etc)
30-60mg.........Diacetylmorphine (Heroin) (orally it = morphine, IV/IM/insuffilated it's 2x as strong)
100mg............Dihydrocodeine
30mg..............Hydrocodone (Vicodin, Lorcet, etc)
7.5mg.............Hydromorphone (Dilaudid)
37.5µg............Fentanyl (not sure on this one, anyone know the oral dose equivalence for Fentanyl?)
4mg................Levorphanol (Dromoran)
300mg............Meperidine (Demerol)
10-20mg.........Methadone
30-60mg.........Morphine
20mg..............Oxycodone (Oxycontin, Percocet)
10mg..............Oxymorphone (Numorphan)
200-300mg.....Propoxyphene (Darvocet)
150mg............Tramadol (Ultram, Ultracet)

I am only using sites to get these answers I am confident of but you might want to call the manufacturer they might could send you something by email to give ur doc.

_________________
Wishing you the best in love and life. Finallyachance.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:49 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:55 pm
Posts: 4933
Location: Leesburg, FL
FYI - You can NOT do a linear conversions with bupe after you get past the around 4 mg ceiling effect mark. This has been covered on this site many times in many different places. Keep this in mind when you try to include bupe in any kind of conversions.

_________________
-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:46 am 
Offline
Super Poster
Super Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:46 pm
Posts: 158
Sorry I am on methadone Hat and I am on high dose so I have to get medication when I had/have kidney or gall bladder attacks and I find the doctors so resistant in giving me both my methadone and pain medication that works in any painful situation. It often is ignored and I just have to deal with the pain but I do try to educate the hospital and doctors to treating MAT clients for pain when needed. Someone has to start somewhere so maybe the next generation can reap the rewards

_________________
Wishing you the best in love and life. Finallyachance.


Top
 Profile  
 
   
 Post subject: Settled out of Court
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:36 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:35 am
Posts: 2801
Location: Southwest
Let's let this one die off. I was really pissed off the day I wrote the post and have calmed down quite a bit since. My plan is this:
Quit Sub yesterday and started taking the Lortabs again. Not abusing, and spreading them out nice and long to drop my tolerance down a taste by Wednesday. I would have done this a week early but only had a small amount of pain meds to accomplish my mission.

I know it is unconventional and may not be the recommended way for an addict. But pain is a great motivator. I will not go through what I went through last time. Period.

The other choice would have been to stop Sub 5 days or so early and go into w/d's. No, that is not the way I want to go. This will work, I am motivated to succeed.

Thanks all for your support and suggestions. Luckily, this particular operation is not supposed to be as painful as the last so I am not too concerned about pain relief this time.

No lawsuit, my venting is over and I'm out of fight. At least now I know what to do in the future.

_________________
Don't take yourself so damn seriously


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:40 pm 
Offline
6 Months or More
6 Months or More
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:55 am
Posts: 252
Location: Over the Rainbow
Good call, rule- but I do understand where you are coming from.

Anyway- you gotta do what's right/comfortable for you.

Good luck with your upcoming surgery!

-ex-

_________________
"-"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:52 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:43 am
Posts: 893
Location: AZ
I don't think anyone could fault you for switching to hydro a few days before your surgery. You tried to do it the right way last time and it left you suffering needlessly. We have to take care of ourselves and unfortunately your egotistical Dr left you with no other options.

I hope this surgery goes well and you are able to get the relief you deserve.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:02 pm 
Offline
Super Poster
Super Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:46 pm
Posts: 158
Yes Rule it is very important you do what you are going to be comfortable with. I wish you all the best and please keep us updated on how it goes.

_________________
Wishing you the best in love and life. Finallyachance.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:53 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:45 pm
Posts: 833
i was thinking rule'. i had the surgery before i was on sub. and they ask me if i want it on suboxone? :twisted: thanks for this story about you . and i will also make dam sure i'm complete off suboxone and on a good working pain med be for any throat surgery. and i hope you have some kind of law suit in this matter to keep this ignorant's in check. and i no the horrible pain you went through. i went through it for 6 to 9 months.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Our Sponsors
Suboxone Forum latest topics RSS feed Subscribe to the entire forum
 

 

 
Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group