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What do you think is most important while in Suboxone Treatment?
Online Support Meetings 22%  22%  [ 26 ]
Face to Face Support Meetings (specifically for Suboxone users) 37%  37%  [ 44 ]
Private one on one counseling through your prescribing physician 41%  41%  [ 48 ]
Total votes : 118
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 6:11 pm 
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Please give your feedback! I am interested in knowing what everyone feels would be the best form of Support for Suboxone users. Feel free to explain your reasoning!

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:52 pm 
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AFTER STARTING TO READ THIS FORUM YESTERDAY IM STARTING UNDERSTAND THE ROLE OF SUBOXONE A LOT BETTER. I AM NOW STARTING TO FEEL GOOD. I JUST STARTED IT MONDAY AND WAS REALLY SICK UNTIL WENDS. MY DOC ONLY TOOK ME OFF OF METHADONE FOR ONE DAY BEFORE GIVING ME SUBOXONE. BIG MISTAKE(FOR ME ANYWAYS) I HAVE NEVER FELT SO BAD IN MY LIFE. BUT I AM DETERMINED TO STICK IT OUT. THIS SITE IS A GREAT HELP SO FAR, EVEN THOUGH IT HAS ONLY BEEN 2 DAYS.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:28 am 
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I voted for face to face meetings, ONLY because one on one therapy with a therapist with addiction experience was not an option. That is what has worked the best for myself and the people I have been through treatment with.

Seasoned: your Doc messed it up, I believe that Reckitt (pharm company making suboxone) recommends a minimum of 36 hours for Methadone, and I think that may be a bit short. I am sorry you had to feel the dreaded precipitated withdrawals. Stick with it, I feel more normal now than I have in YEARS. Suboxone and really helped me, though I have some philosophical issues with it, it is working for me for now.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 4:19 pm 
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I hear stories of patients seeing their prescribing doc for 5 minutes--I think that is a recipe for disaster UNLESS there are therapists who 'get' Suboxone. I have referred patients for therapy from AODA counselors before, then found out later that the counselor is telling the person 'you need to get off that stuff' at every appointment.

I hate putting people on a med forever, but in my experience there is no option for most people. People who do months and months of treatment are just as prone to relapse as anyone else once you get out a few years-- I just have seen no evidence that the compulsion ever goes away-- again, for most people.

For those who say (not here, but in e-mails) that 'us docs' keep people on Suboxone for the money... when people leave my list of 100, I can immediately take in someone else-- it is much more lucrative to turn patients over rapidly, one after another.

Just my two cents...


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:10 am 
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It is my firm belief that Suboxone should not be given to anyone without a verifiable method of addiction education attached.How is anyone addicted to opiates going to change just by using Suboxone? Too many times people are handed a prescription and sent out of the doctor's office, or even worse are told to use the medication incorrectly. Treatment is absolutely necessary with Suboxone! Anyone who thinks they don't need it winds up needing it the most!

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 4:06 pm 
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I have to say, all of those are great. I think what is the most reasonable for the individual. For example, I love my therapist, need her, but she is expensive. I love groups because no one knows what you are going through until they have walked in your shoes. If you can't go out, get support online. If you can, go to a group also. if you have the luxury of good health insurance or a good therapist, go for it.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:37 pm 
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The Doctor that prescribed me the suboxone two years ago is a genuine compassionate guy who admitted me just by word of mouth, off the street. The way he treated me was textbook to the mfgr's literature. I was in the familiar desperate dependency mode and he was the only doc in town (or outskirts of town) that would treat me. That being said, I don't think he has a full grasp of this drug.

He always told me that I could be maintained on suboxone for whatever duration necessary for my recovery, then when we agreed that I was ready he would taper me off. I believe I arrived at his office at a time when the DEA restrictions on Suboxone were being loosened enough to allow more people to get treatment. After about a year of maintenance and scheduled follow-up visits to him I was doing well. The following year of maintenance I began to taper down from 8mg/day gradually until I was down to 2mg/day - which for me was relatively easy. The Doctor was fine with this as I didn't have too much discomfort during this period of reduction. He was always concerned about me not having enough to reduce the risk of relapse and I assured him that I was fine (all I cared about at this juncture was not being sick or in withdrawal. I was just happy not being addicted to the full agonist).

The problems all started when I tried to quit. Starting at 2mg/day and trying to taper down to 0.5mg/day is where my story actually begins. The story has already been told many times over in this forum by others so I'll leave it at that.

It took me several failed attempts at quitting, lots of reading on the internet, and just my general experience taking the drug to FINALLY understand what Suboxone can do. For those reasons alone, I don't think my Doctor fully realizes what he's doing with me. I don't blame him. He's a nerdy guy with a humble practice and a heart as big as the Sun.

With the benefit of this site, I am now able to accurately measure my doses down to "a trace" by virtue of the liquid taper method. About six weeks ago I tried to quit from 0.2mg/day. A week later I was sick, very cold & flu-like sick, and I had to abort the mission. Now I am back on for another go at it, only this time I am rigidly adhering to a dose schedule spread out over a longer period of time.

I learned that here...why doesn't my Doctor know?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:08 pm 
Boxtin - You're right about these doctors! I've read on this forum and others too many times about doctors either not caring about their patients and treating them poorly or being well-intentioned but ignorant when it comes to Suboxone. I guess it's like any other type of doctor. Having worked along side many different physicians over the years I have seen firsthand just how ignorant they can be!
In the case of Suboxone though I think it's even worse. Most of these docs are not addicts and have no personal experience with this drug. They take their quick course and start writing scripts. I personally don't think many of them are motivated to do it purely for the money. They probably (hopefully) do want to help us, they just don't have enough training and education regarding addiction/Suboxone. But I don't necessarily want that to change because that would mean there would be even less help available, giving us even less access to Sub.
And realistically, before taking any medication it is the individual's responsibility to do the research and weigh out the pros and cons before taking this or any other medication. People put way too much trust and confidence in their doctor's decisions. Sure, in a perfect world all doctors would at all times treat us appropriately and know exactly what's going to make us better. But it doesn't always work that way, does it?
I'm kind of lucky in that my doctor was addicted to pain meds and was on Suboxone himself for a few years, so obviously he has a lot of firsthand knowledge. Which brings me to what I wanted to tell you Boxtin - I just talked to him the other day about tapering. He told me how he did it. He said he tapered quickly and easily from the higher doses but once he got under ~4mg/day he slowed it way down. He said he just followed the cues his body and mind gave him. He told me that when he got down to "crumbs" of the 8mg tabs, he would skip a day and then sometimes skip a couple of days. He said towards the end he remembered taking a crumb a few times even after he hadn't had any at all for a week at a time. Until one day he realized it had been a couple weeks since he'd taken any so he figured he was done!
I know everyone is different and some people will do well with that type of 'non-plan' while others would have to set a much stricter regimen to successfully taper and discontinue Sub. I hope your new plan works out for you. When you start to get discouraged, just think about how far you've come and all the good things you've been able to accomplish with the help of that orange pill! It's very powerful medication and I'm sure trying to discontinue it has given you a new kind of respect for it. Give yourself a break and try not to feel bad about not being able to stop it just yet. I'm sure your time will come. In my opinion, it's better to be on that tiny bit of Sub than to make yourself sick or worse yet - relapse!


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:56 pm 
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I think having a real good doctor is very important. I also think (from my own life) that having people whom have known you for a long time, family, close friends, etc. need to know what your going through. Having people around you all the time whom care about what your doing in treatment and who watch out for triggers seem to help when it comes to staying clean, and can help when life throws shit at you and all you want to do is use.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:52 pm 
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I feel that being involved in your recovery really helps for example making it to your doctors appointment each month, and being open and honest with them.Also being involved with other recovering addicts, I have found that online meetings are great and are at your reach at anytime. NA is also helpful but you have to pick and choose what works for you. I feel that you need a little of all three to stay clean. One doesnt help more than the others.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:22 pm 
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ape0567 wrote:
I feel that you need a little of all three to stay clean. One doesnt help more than the others.


ANYTHING IS BETTER THAN NOTHING :idea:

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:40 pm 
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I have always enjoyed going to my monthly suboxone support meeting. It's only an hour long, but I always leave there feeling better then when I went in. Personaly I haven't been to any AA/NA for about 5 years. I live in a small community with alot of gossipy ppl, and I don't want to be the topic of discussion. I personally think that while being on suboxone, some ppl, myself included, don't need any other type of treatment, and that the drug itself is sufficient to maintain abstince from opiates all together. The real work begins, when you make the choice to stop taking the suboxone. I'm sure that getting a headstart with the 12 step program, getting involved in NA/AA, and finding a higher power will be the difference between staying clean and relapsing. That being said, After being on Suboxone for five and half years, and deciding to jump off in January, I should probibly use my own advice and start going to meeting, Right?


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 Post subject: Best Advice
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:13 pm 
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I have been to a few meetings and most people there did not seem to approve of being on suboxone. I vote for one on one counseling. I wanted to let everyone know the best advice I have had so far for my recovery came from this website. It changed my whole approach and may can help others as it did me. I have been on suboxone for about 8 months (no relapse..yeah) but just starting following the advice about dosing 4-5 months ago. Dosing one time a day (by the way, my Doctor advises 3 to 4 times a day) has changed my whole recovery. I had explained to my Doctor numerous times the craving I experienced in the evenings even though I may have taken my max dosage for the day. He just kept telling me to resist it. Once I switched to once a day dosing, within a short period of time the urge subsided and sometimes I have even forgotten to take my suboxone! That a pill addict can forget about taking a pill is a miracle to me. It is the one thing I advise everyone to do if they are not already. It changes your whole pattern of behavior and thinking. Thanks Dr. Junig!!


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:35 am 
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Hi,

I am willing to give some ideas on this forum. Honestly speaking I am totally unaware of Suboxone. I don't know what it is for, how does it work and many such initial question. If anybody can explain me about Suboxone, it would be a great help. If suitable for me to take, I will start using it. Then I could come up with the suggestion that has it worked on me. Thanks in advance.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:59 am 
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I think the choice one makes for support is highly dependent on where you live and what's available. My prescribing doc is a psychiatrist, a solo practitioner, specializing in addiction medicine - so I have an ideal 1:1 situation, but, sad to say, not everyone is so fortunate - to have a doctor that "gets" it. After 2 years, I just see him once a month, although he is available to me more often, should the need arise. So far, so good in my case.

Although I live in a major metropolitan area, to my knowledge there are no group meetings available to the suboxone user, sorry to say. I would be interested in giving that a go, were it available to me. There are some methadone clinics here that (somewhat begrudgingly(?)) offer suboxone in addition to methadone -- I'm certain they have groups -- but, of course, they aren't open to any non-clients.

I also think an online, live meeting could be useful with the right mix of participants and good moderation. I contribute on some other boards where this has been attempted; however, participation was weak at best, and the "live" groups soon fizzled out.

We must remember that suboxone is really just out of its infancy. I think that as time goes on it will become the more prevalent treatment (as opposed to methadone), which will eventually result in more counseling-type options for everyone.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:52 am 
I know a lot of people are concerned with good reason about expensive therapists and psychologists. One thing to look into is community service boards and mental health centers. Many counties and cities have really good mental health/substance abuse services available on a sliding-scale fee system. And most times you can use these services based solely on your residency in the county/city, not your income. I have used an excellent community mental health center for years virtually for free, and had been paying unbelievable rates to private therapists for years while this help had been literally right under my nose. You just have to do a little research. Granted, some areas aren't going to have things like this, but many will.
I couldn't cast a vote because I use another option: psychotherapy not specifically for Suboxone use. My therapist is supportive of my Sub use, but we talk about all facets of my life and my addictions and everything else I need to talk about. I think the real key here is that this is not a one-size-fits-all issue. What works for one may not work for another, and everyone is different. But I think Suboxone is becoming something with a pretty high success rate among opiate dependant people.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 7:58 am 
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I AM VERY PLEASED TO HAVE FOUND THIS SITE. I WAS IN SEVERE WITHDRAWAL FOR THE PAST WEEK AFTER STOPPING 65MLS METHADONE COMPLETELY. I HAVE NEVER FELT SO ILL. TOOK MY FIRST SUBOXONE EARLIER AND FEEL LOTS BETTER. RE THE GUY WHOSE DOCTOR ONLY GAVE HIM ONE DAY BEFORE GIVING HIM SUBOXONE, HOW AWFUL, I HAD TO WAIT 4 DAYS, THE REASON THEY GAVE ME WAS THAT ID GO INTO EVEN WORSE WITHDRAWAL OTHERWISE. METHADONE WAS STILL SHOWING UP IN WEE TEST AFTER ALMOST 2 WEEKS WITHOUT IT.


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 Post subject: So much I didn't know
PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 2:07 pm 
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This site is making me understand subs. My dr. just rx it no consult or advice or info. Now after I have been seeing him 14 yrs and on & off subs for a year. (had surgeries and an amputation) he decides to retire and leave me with a tel# That gave me an appt for consult on the day my refill is due. I get so sick in wd's I'm scared to death. I called last night and left a message. Hope they call tomorrow. This is the best site. Love & hope, queenie


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:57 pm 
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suboxdoc wrote:
I hear stories of patients seeing their prescribing doc for 5 minutes--I think that is a recipe for disaster

I was one of those people my first time on Sub. The first visit was 30 minutes long. I was given a script, filled it, and inducted myself IN MY CAR. An hour later, I called the doctor and increased my dose as directed. The next couple of days, I was sick and couldn't get in touch with the doctor. That was off topic. I know. I just needed to comment on the good doctor's statement.

I voted for face to face groups comprised of Suboxone users. I attend 12-Step meetings and I've been fortunate enough to have meetings around me where my Suboxone use doesn't ostracise me. Even so, as much as I'm accepted at the AA meeting and the couple of NA meetings that I attend, I don't openly speak about my Suboxone program. It's not that I've been told not to speak about it. Actually, I've been told that "it's nobody's business but your own." It's kind of a "Don't ask. Don't tell" policy.

So, I have people who know that I'm on replacements and that's a good thing. But, I can't ever share my experiences (or more importantly, get to hear the experiences of others) or voice my concerns or questions because I'm sitting in a room full of people who can't quite relate. How wonderful it would be to sit in a room of people on Suboxone and hear how they have completed the third step and haven't found replacement therapy to be any kind of a hinderance! Of course, I get to read these kinds of sentiments on this forum and I am grateful for that. But, it's not quite the same as seeing someone living it.

I feel a special bond with other sub patients when I meet them at meetings (usually I learn of their sub use only after the meeting). It's a bond that I believe exists between those who are sincerely members of the fellowship of Narcotics Anonymous or Alcoholics Anonymous. The bond is the result of sharing the same disease and then finding a similar way to recover. My bond is less than complete. I have the same disease. But, I've found a bit of a different way to recover.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 10:49 pm 
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Christin I have to agree I also really wish there was a medication assisted recovery meeting anywhere around me. I'd even be more than willing to commute a ways however where I live at least that's just not even an option. Here's hoping we start to see more of these meetings pop up :)

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