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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:31 pm 
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Hi I'm new & so glad I found this site. I was on methadone for 15yrs & switched to subutex 12mg 3mo ago bc pregnant. I knew I needed to come off b4 baby gets here but not this fast! I recenty was weened off off Valium 20mg a day and am still feeling wd's from that. Soo I'm already shakey, w/o sleep, night sweats etc. &!am especially concerned. On top of that I missed an appt by accident and received a dismissal letter with a script for 3 weeks of sub.- 8mg with discontinue instructions. - 8mg for 1 week, 4mg for 1 week, 2mg for 1 week then off. I'm at 2mg starting today and had already started cutting bak a little bc I knew the taper was about to start anyway.. I have heard so many horror storys about jumping off at 2 and im so scared- the sheer fear of it has been causing me to have panic attacks. I have 5 pills left and thought I could take 2mg/day for 12 days then 1mg a day for 16 days. BUT I need advice about that!! Is it more important to stay on 2mg longer -or 1mg? Should i cut those days short and go smaller than 1mg before stopping? Would it b worth it to get a new doc for 3 or 4 8mg pills so I can stay at the low dose a little longer and/or go less than 1mg? I only have probably 7-9 weeks left before delivery so I'm trying to factor all this in. I kno I've asked a lot! I pray someone would be so kind as to take time to help me figure this out.. I've been so sick already; and help with this at least feels like it could my life!! :).


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:32 pm 
When it comes to a pregnant woman or a baby, my advice is always to talk to your doctor and be 100% honest with him. Remember, no one on this site besides Dr. Junig is a doctor (and he rarely posts), so you should take anyone else's advice from whence it came.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:23 pm 
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I already posted but havent got a reply yet - im thinking maybe i was too wordy. So im making it simple & I hope I get a reply.. I've been on methadone for 15 yrs then switched to subutex 12 mg/day bc pregnant 3 mo ago. The doc has me dc'ing over three weeks to 2mg/day then off. Has anyone successfully jumped off at 2 mg bn pregnant? If u could tell me your experience that would help. (I do have enough to cut the 2mg in half equalling 2mg/day for 12 days then 1mg/day for 16 days. Would that be best?). Any advice would be very appreciated!


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:30 pm 
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Thank u noalibi for your time! The only problem with that is my doctor dismissed me bc I missed an appt. so I'm not sure wat to do bn I'm so close to delivery... Uuuugh


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:41 pm 
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It can be dangerous to quit opiates - including suboxone/subutex - while pregnant - most especially doing such a very fast taper the way you are describing it. I don't mean to frighten you, but the way you are planning your taper could very likely place you at risk of miscarriage (highest in the first trimester). (That said, I'm no doctor or medical professional.) This is based on what I've learned and researched and read up on from Dr. Junig in the last 3 years.)

I would highly suggest that you start looking for a new Sub doctor as well as an ob/gyn. Often women on sub, even those coming off it, are considered high risk. I'd agree with the other poster about being totally honest with both of those doctor about being on subutex and being pregnant.

Remember, the fetus is feeling the withdrawals, too, not exactly like you are - they don't have the brain connections necessary to feel the anxiety like you do, but they do feel the discomfort and the withdrawals present unique challenges at each stage of the pregnancy. From what I've read, the best time to taper off opiates is in the second trimester. It's not that it's not dangerous then as well, but it's less dangerous during that time (it's a bit safer than the first or third trimesters is what I understand). But keep in mind to do a proper taper you need to do it long and slow and frankly, you might not have the time during your pregnancy to do that. People spend weeks if not months tapering down into the micrograms before "jumping off" altogether.

Lastly, there are MANY, MANY women who have delivered very healthy babies while on sub. Read up on their stories in this section. Their doses varied from very low to average doses (6 + mg) and some babies had no withdrawals whatsoever. That just cannot be predicted.

Sorry for being so long-winded. I thought it might help you to know everything that I know about the situation. I hope this helps you. Whatever you decide, remember that what you do affects the fetus, too. Good luck. I'm sure others will come along with their perspectives as well.

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-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:56 am 
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Ok you've got my attention!! Thank u soo much for the reply im glad u were 'long-winded'! Instead of trying to text this out formally on my phone, I'm just going to shoot out a few ?'s..

Can u please tell me where to find information on the dangers of coming off this in the third trimester?

If I can't afford another doctor rt now, is there somewhere else that can help me?
( my psych who prescribed the subutex has released me because I missed an appt., and his wife is my obgyn! I hate confrontation but I kno I need to fight for myself.. )

Where can I find the info from dr. Junig u r talking about?

I appreciate the help. I kno u didn't mean to scare me - I'm doing a good job of that myself..


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:11 am 
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Here's a link to Dr. Junig's blog, Suboxone TalkZone. I already did the search for his articles on pregnancy. http://suboxonetalkzone.com/category/pregnancy/ I'd suggest reading as many of his blog posts as you can on that subject. As for the dangers in the third trimester, I've just done a lot of reading from various sources on the internet. Basically there are risks with quitting opiates in all three trimesters. The first is more of a risk of miscarriage and the third trimester is more of a risk of premature labor (and honestly I can't recall if there's an increased risk of stillbirth or not, but I may as well be honest with you and tell you what I recall). You can do some internet searches for "opiate withdrawals third trimester dangers" - or some variation of that. You should come up with some of the same articles I did.

If you really want to go off, you should start SLOWLY tapering ASAP. But the best way to taper is to drop your dose by 10-25% every few weeks, allowing yourself to adjust to the new lower dose in between the drops. Some people only make dosage drops once a month, others every couple of weeks. If you're stable now on 12 mg, you can probably drop down to 8 pretty quickly w/ little to no w/d, and the same down to 6 mg. It's when you hit about 4 mg that it often gets harder to go lower. Like I said, I just don't think you have enough time to do a proper taper, which is what you'll need to do if you want to avoid severe withdrawals for both you and the fetus.

My unsolicited opinion is that if you really want this baby, it would probably do best with you just tapering down slowly during the rest of your pregnancy but to stay on a low dose. But take my opinion with a grain of salt. This is obviously a very personal decision. I do urge you to find two new doctors ASAP. Again, for both of you. Good luck.

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-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:33 pm 
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Hatmaker,
I really wish I could thank u more than just saying 'thank you'. I see now y people r so appreciative of the people who they don't even kno giving their time to help. I hope to follow in ur footsteps one day and give back as well.
I'm taking ur advice as a guide for what direction kno should go. Each direction has huge obstacles. Wen I said 'if u really want this baby', that was completely sobering. Yes! I really want this baby! I'm 42, and have 1 child who's 22.. And a granddaughter! I wasn't supposed to b able to get preg again. 22yrs! I'm starting all over.

I made some calls this morning and am waiting on calls back. Until reading wat u said yesterday, I was convinced by my 'former' doctor that I had to come off b4 delivery. But I don't kno if je'd have taken me off this fast if he hadn't dropped me. Now im trying to find a doc ASAP to talk to about staying at a low dose. Im so afraid that not 1 will take me being 31wks... We'll see. Otherwise I will probably go to ER if the symptoms get bad enough. I can't imagine bn n withdrawals, n labor - prematurely, and her possibly having NAS anyway - & maybe not making it bc bn premature?? A NIGHTMARE that I wouldn't make it through & that's exactly where Im heading?? WHAT'S WRONG W/ THESE DOCTORS?? Y don't they kno wat u r telling me??

I am at 4mg a day and have done fairly ok with the drop From 12- some wd's.But the last two days I've tried taking 2mg and hav had more: diahrea , sneezing- hot cold sweating & just plain panic/crying.. So I had to take another price. I only hav 4 8mg left rt now.

Will u PLZ keep checking in here?... So far u r the ONLY one helping me. IN THE WORLD!! My man just doesn't hav a clue. And none of my family /few friends i hav left kno! I REALLY thank God for you!! I'll get bak soon as the next part unfolds. Hopefully today I'll hav some peace of mind just knowing she & I wil b taken care of.
Oh- should I start a new post or just stay on this one?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:35 am 
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First let me say I started a new thread & I should've previewed it before posting it - Im doing this from my phone & I think I said way too much about unnecessary stuff. I just started txting abs got lost n it! I wanted to reword it but it was to late. Then it was deleted. Maybe it's bc I started a new topic w/o updating this one? Later if someone can tell me how/why things get deleted if appreciate it and follow any guidelines. I'm embarrassed - sorry!

Most importantly - my situation has changed. After reading and researching i realized my baby could b n serious jeopardy ftom going into wd's from such a fast taper in the 3rd trimester. Thanks hatmaker! I called every sub doc in Shreveport and found one whos wife answerd the phone & we remembered each other from 15+ yrs ago when the doc worked as a radiologist and I did ultrasound. I could believe i got so lucky - I needed that luck! She immediately sympathized with my situation and got me n that afternoon! The doc Agreed and said he had 20+ patients who had babies on sub and not 1 showed signs of NAS. That's encouraging. He told me to take 4mg a day & if I could take less do but not to stress over it. He also said what Ive read several times- to divide the dose throughout the day which seems to reduce risk of NAS.
So- I am very relieved (i can actually concentrate on preparing for her arrival!) but at the same time - from everything I've read here Im afraid of what will happen at the hospital. I will start the journey in the a.m. Of finding out my hospitals policy, etc. and will talk to my OB about the change at my Tuesday appt. (my obgyn is the wife of my former sub doc who was ripping me off of it! I hope this's not a problem.)
I will keep updating.. Any advice on the best way to prepare for the hospital battle would b appreciated!


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:24 am 
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You found a doctor that you know! How terrific! That must make you feel so much better! What a relief.

And yes, you're fine continuing to post in this thread. I'll be checking back in on this one. Keep us posted. Congrats on you and your pregnancy. :)

And you're quite welcome. It's been my pleasure talking with you. And i'll be here anytime you want to talk.Feel free to PM me anytime.

_________________
-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:17 pm 
Hey Glorydays,

I'm so glad you found a dr that could help you. I posted a few days ago about my situation, very similar to what happened to you. When I told my doc that's I was prego she basically told me to taper with the remaining sub, lowering dose every 4 days and them jumping. Luckily I had been tapering basically the entire 9 or so months that I've been on so I managed to go from 3 mg to 1 mg over a few uncomfortable weeks. Took my last dose on Thursday so this is day 5. I'm trying to stay positive but, as we all know, it's really hard! I'm trying to stay positive and read all the success stories on this forum. Being prego sure adds a new dynamic to the anxiety tho.

That's amazing that you have been able to kick the Valium and taper as low as you have. You should be proud. Sounds like this baby was really meant to be. Congrats on your pregnancy and your progress.

Lilly


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