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 Post subject: Plugging
PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 11:16 am 
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Exactly how far up does it need to go?


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 Post subject: Re: Plugging
PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 2:21 am 
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Jenilee182 wrote:
Exactly how far up does it need to go?

It wouldn't think it has to go far, just so long as you can hold it until its absorbed through the colon's mucous membrane. If you're going to do it no matter what anybody here might say to discourage it, I would probably liquefy and use the end of an oral syringe to squirt it in, rathar than shoving up a pill or a strip. That way it would be more likely to absorb fully, before an unplanned bowel movement comes along. I'd actually recommend an enema first to make sure all is nice and clean down there, so the sub doesn't absorb into any fecal matter. If you do it regularly, buy an enema bag and just use water, as the premade, constipation enemas have an ingredient that I heard can cause one to become dependent on them, to have a bowel movement. Adjust your dose accordingly if you are planning on doing it to save money (the primary, legitimate reason I can see for doing so) because of the possibly increased bioavailbility factor. But you'd have to experiment. I haven't a clue what the rectal bioavailbility is for suboxone, as no studies have been conducted on that ROA, for the obvious reason it's not intended to be used that way. There is nothing but conflicting anecdotes about it, on forums. But I assume it is at least slightly higher, possibly significantly higher, but (pun not intented) we're talking about it passing through another mucous membrane when absorbed rectally. You'd have to experiment with, say, an amount that's half of what you'd use sublingually, and gauge the effects subjectively to see how they compare. But there is a good chance you'll be going through a lot of hassle and not getting much of a bioavailibility advantage for purposes of cost cutting. Another reason for using it rectally, could be that using it sublingually is intolerable for a person and causes them to gag, etc.

This is a study that seems to be discussing plain, or pure, buprenorphine's bioavailibility, thru various routes of administration:

Quote:
The systemic bioavailability of buprenorphine has been studied in female rats following single doses (200 microgram kg-1) administered by one of six different routes. Relative to the 100% bioavailability from the intraarterial route the mean bioavailabilities were intravenous, 98%; intrarectal, 54%; intrahepatoportal, 49%; sublingual, 13%; and intraduodenal, 9.7%. Area under the curve analysis of buprenorphine concentrations in blood showed the relative fractions of drug extracted (first pass) by gut, liver and lung to be 0.80, 0.50 and 0.02 respectively, In situ absorption studies showed that the poor availability of intraduodenally administered buprenorphine is not due to slow or incomplete absorption

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6115924


It says 54% for interectal, and 13% for sublingual? Nothing about nasal. Now the problem with using that study (edit: aside from it being a study done on rats as opposed to humans, heh) as a basis for determining rectal vs sublingual bioavailablity of suboxone buprenorphine formulations, is it doesn't factor in that suboxone (and zubsolv) are formulated to increase bioavailibility through mucous membranes, and various sources estimate suboxone to have a bioavailablity ranging from 35-50 percent used sublingually, and the same or somewhat higher if correctly used nasally (when nasal passages are clear of excess mucous, and it is sniffed in a way that little or none is lost from it dripping down into the throat and esophagus, and off toward acidic stomach). The study cited above says 13 percent for buprenorphine sublingually, and that is buprenorphine which isn't formulated for optimal mucous membrane absorption. It is possible that it might not be all that much higher rectally (plugging) than using it sublingually (or through nasal mucous membranes), since you'd just be going through another mucous membrane, rectally.

In the final analysis, I wouldn't waste my time, my guess is it likely wouldn't be significantly higher enough to be worth the effort involved to do it properly (as opposed to pushing a pill up there, without cleaning things up first with an enema, to avoid possibly wasting most of it), but I could be wrong, as its just my semi-edumacated guess based on the information I've reviewed. Another consideration, is that vaginally plugging might work just as well as rectally plugging, for a female. *shrugs*


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 Post subject: Re: Plugging
PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:41 pm 
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Its interesting you mentioned vaginally, as i have often thought about if that would work too, i happen to be a female. They even say occular administration would work.. I cant imagine somebody squirting sub drops in their eyes..

I find that rectal seems to have about the same effect as oral. Sometimes i do not have the time to wait for it to dissolve,make sure i do not talk or swallow,etc. taste doesnt bother me as i have always associated it with relief.

As for enemas, im glad somebody else shares my appriciation for them. I like to keep it clean, so to speak and do them maybe once or twice a week. Suboxone has always had a constipating effect. So they help immensely.

I have done both shoving a quarter of an 8mg tablet up as far as i can laying down on my side, and dissolving and administering via oral syringe up in there.

I see rectal dosing as a convienience thing mostly. I can drink my morning coffee and brush my teeth without hesitation

My only other skeptism comes from accounts of peoples experiences with generic suboxone and name brand strips.
I have tried bothe amneal orange generic tablets and actavis white half moon generic tablets. I have not tried zubsolve yet. I have also had subutex generic and namebrand as well as suboxone strips and tablets.
If anyone has noticed and differences in effect , i am curious to hear about it.
I know there are some but i cant wuite put my finger on it as to what the difference might be. Except the generics kick in and peak alot sooner.


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