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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 1:57 pm 
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Hello everyone. I recently quit opiates (Late January) and in early February was prescribed Suboxone because I have successfully used bupe before to quit heroin/oxy/whatever opiate.

I started at 16mg/day for a few days, then went down to 8mg/day. I used 8-10mg/day for about 5 weeks. Now I want to stop.... but I didn't plan a very smart taper. I had about 15mg left when I decided to wean down. I took 8mg a few days ago, then 6mg two days ago, then 5mg yesterday, and today 4mg. Unfortunately, now I only have 3mg left. I was planning on taking 1mg tomorrow and the day after that, then .5 mg for the two days after that. Will I go through bad withdrawal?

I have heard ALL the stories, from people saying they took 16mg/day for two months, then quit cold turkey with no problems, all the way to people saying they only took 4mg/day for 6 weeks and then they "went through hell" for two-three weeks after that. I'm trying to get to the truth!!

With 3mg left, at about 8mg/day for 5 weeks, what is the best way to stretch out my last 3mg?? Will I withdraw at all? ANY and ALL advice would be great! ASAP because I'm not quite sure what I'm in for. Thanks!!


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:08 pm 
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Hi Matt,
I hear you because i've heard the same range of experiences. And of course we are all different. I know when I jumped from 75mg methadone cold turkey waiting to induct on Sub by the 6th day off methadone I was not doing that badly. not at all...so it gives me hope I might be ok when I go off sub.
But I too may have to jump off sub quickly due to finances...what i would with what you have left is get a pill cutter if you have pills and cut it up into .25 doses and take as little as possible when you start feeling shitty. See how far you can stretch it out that way. that's what I'm going to do and I'm not sure if that is the best advice as I've never tapered....but many have...I am sure there is someone here who has tapered quickly that can help more then me. But this is my own plan for the following week...scary for sure. I've only been on Sub 3 months and I keep thinking that might make it easier but who knows. Some say no, some say yes.
Please keep posting about your experience as you go through it...


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 Post subject: Ok
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:34 pm 
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I will definitely keep everyone posted. And I think cutting into even smaller pieces is a good idea, since if I go with my idea (taking my last 3mg over 4 days) I won't even give myself a chance to see what the w/d will be like yet, and will probably end up hating myself on day 5. Who knows though, a lot of people say it's easy to stop < 2 months of use.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:47 pm 
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Hi matt - no one can say what you'll experience. Everyone is different. Also, it's important not only to consider how long you've been on sub, but how long you were on full agonists BEFORE you started sub. That's also what you'll be withdrawing off of, in a way.

May I ask, why are you stopping so soon? Do you have a doctor, or were you getting subs off the streets? Please just be aware that short term sub use has an extremely high rate of relapse. Obviously the decision to stop is yours, just please be vigilant and remember that you'll be vulnerable to relapse. Being on guard like that will protect you, so to speak. Otherwise, triggers and cravings could jump up and surprise you.

Can you get any Clonidine to help with any withdrawals you may experience? Also, most people attest that exercise (and hot baths) help the discomfort also. You may not feel like it, but try to force yourself to stay busy and active.

Good luck to you! Take care.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:53 am 
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Hi Matt, congratulations on your progress so far, im doing a bupe reduction myself at the moment. For me, the hardest thing about withdrawl is that twilight period when you are not quite sick yet but know it is in the post. You may have to do some form of recovery and i just wanted to encourage you. You may or may not get very sick but consider this: i watched this documentary not long ago about the Australian Army training the SAS cadets. They deliberately kept them awake for a whole week, marching them all day, every day, with hardly any sleep or tucker, on a mock operation that was physically and mentally demanding. And playing some very mischievious mind games with them too. Naturally the cadets were emotionally, mentally and physically exuasted; but they only had one chance to join the regiment. At one point an instructor made a comment saying that becuase it wasnt a 'life and death' situation (medics were on hand to constantly asess them) at no point was the cadet using any more than 30% of their potential. Now im certainly not that fit, but after hearing this i suddenly knew that i could out-tough the symptoms, if any. I hope you can get the same inspiration from something. Good Luck!


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 Post subject: Re: Ok
PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 12:31 pm 
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matt1980 wrote:
I will definitely keep everyone posted. And I think cutting into even smaller pieces is a good idea, since if I go with my idea (taking my last 3mg over 4 days) I won't even give myself a chance to see what the w/d will be like yet, and will probably end up hating myself on day 5. Who knows though, a lot of people say it's easy to stop < 2 months of use.


Chinagirl gave really good advice. I've actually used that method to just get my dose lower and it works well. You only take a tiny piece....and believe it or not, a very small piece contains a significant amount of Bupe and can at least take the edge off your w/d. I feel bad for you that you have to go through such a fast taper. On the other hand, I've been on Sub since 2005 and tapering off it after that long is harder than I can describe. It's downright awful. I'd love to have been on it only a short time like you. I have no problem with long-term Sub maintenance if that's what someone wants, but if you are going to want off Sub anyway in the foreseeable future, then it's best for you that you haven't been on long. It only gets harder to get off....Just keep that in mind when you don't feel well. I'd trade places with you in a heartbeat. Your w/d may suck, but it will end much sooner than if you'd been on Sub for years and years.

Good luck!!!

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 12:37 pm 
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Just a quick thought...you could also try every other day dosing. Some people have success with that. It might get you more used to being without it all together.

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 Post subject: Thanks everyone
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:01 pm 
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crooltats wrote:
Hi Matt, congratulations on your progress so far, im doing a bupe reduction myself at the moment. For me, the hardest thing about withdrawl is that twilight period when you are not quite sick yet but know it is in the post. You may have to do some form of recovery and i just wanted to encourage you. You may or may not get very sick but consider this: i watched this documentary not long ago about the Australian Army training the SAS cadets. They deliberately kept them awake for a whole week, marching them all day, every day, with hardly any sleep or tucker, on a mock operation that was physically and mentally demanding. And playing some very mischievious mind games with them too. Naturally the cadets were emotionally, mentally and physically exuasted; but they only had one chance to join the regiment. At one point an instructor made a comment saying that becuase it wasnt a 'life and death' situation (medics were on hand to constantly asess them) at no point was the cadet using any more than 30% of their potential. Now im certainly not that fit, but after hearing this i suddenly knew that i could out-tough the symptoms, if any. I hope you can get the same inspiration from something. Good Luck!


Ok, well this message was really inspiring. I -have- been through intense mind games of my own in the past, so I suppose that this detox will pale in comparison. To chinagirl and all of you who replied, thank you.

So, two days ago I posted and took my 4mg; yesterday I only took 1mg. Last night I actually managed to fall asleep somehow and get 8 hours, but I was riddled with nightmares. I slept horribly and I woke up feeling really depressed, but guess what? I'd only taken 1mg within the past 48 hours and I don't really feel sick this morning. THANK GOD. I was afraid that I would experience heroin-like withdrawal symptoms, but I didn't... at least, I haven't so far.

So for those who were wondering about the DETAILS: I originally had a heroin relapse in January. Then I detoxed for a couple weeks by myself.... then used again for a while, enough so that I knew I would be getting sick when I stopped. But luckily I was only using H for a few weeks at that point. Sometime in early February I decided to quit, and my insurance wouldn't pay for a fucking detox (thanks Blue Cross!!!), and I started the Suboxone; I took 8-10 mg a day for about 5 weeks. Then I got down to the end of the bottle and knew I was going to run out... I'm out of town because I wanted to be at least 300 miles from my heroin connections......then I went like this: 6mg one day, 5mg the next day, 4mg the day after, then 1mg, then 1mg again the next day (today), and now I have .5mg for tomorrow and the day after, in case my discomfort increases, I've managed to hold on to those last two crumbs.

I have to admit though, this is VERY hard for me. yesterday I really wanted to take my last 2mg all at once, instead of doing the 1 then .5 then .5 again. But I am trying to be STRONG as much as I can because I've gone through withdrawals before and they're not fun.

Hopefully, since I've only been on it 5 weeks or so, after the .5's are gone I won't get sick. I'm assuming that since I jumped down from 8mg to 1mg within three days, and could still sleep 8 hours, that I'm pretty much "out of the woods". But I will post again tomorrow or the day after to let everyone know how it went. The moral of the story here is: DON'T STAY ON IT for more than a month or two, because from what I've read, it gets harder and harder. I think I'm right on the edge of the point where it could've developed into a lifetime addiction, basically just replacing my smack habit. But since I was sentenced to 80 days in jail next month, and I'm pretty sure I'm going to go (since having a warrant in my home town is no fun), I decided to jump off as soon as I could. Kicking in the slammer is _REALLY_ NOT fun.

Hope this helps people who are starting on the stuff-- as long as you only stay on 8mg/day for only a few weeks, you should be ok with a quick taper. At least that's how I feel. I might be wrong, maybe once the .5's are gone I will start feeling really shitty, but I'll keep everyone up-to-date. Thanks for the help guys.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:15 pm 
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Yes, I would say that the fact that you went from 8 mg to 1 mg in only 3 days is a VERY good sign. I've been on Sub since 5.5 years, and I started my taper to get off at the end of October at 8 mg. It's the 137th day of my taper and I'm just now getting down to 1 milligram, but I still have to alternate between 1.25 and 1 mg and I've gone through a lot of w/d during this process. A LOT of w/d. It's been a really rough road.

I'm so sorry you are facing being locked up. Yikes....good thing you are getting off the Sub now. I can't imagine having to stop any serious drug habit while in jail, especially opiates. My friend's husband just got locked up (which is a good thing, cause he's a jerk) but he has a horrendous Oxy problem and he's in there right now....kicking....no Sub....no help of any sort. Sounds like a nightmare to me. I hope you get out earlier than you expect. You must be scared. At least, I would be. Thank God it's not a long sentence, KWIM? I really wish you the best, and just remember that if you get sick, it IS better to be sick at home than being sick while in jail. I don't think it will be all that bad for you. You haven't been on Sub that long.

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:23 pm 
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laddertipper wrote:
Yes, I would say that the fact that you went from 8 mg to 1 mg in only 3 days is a VERY good sign. I've been on Sub since 5.5 years, and I started my taper to get off at the end of October at 8 mg. It's the 137th day of my taper and I'm just now getting down to 1 milligram, but I still have to alternate between 1.25 and 1 mg and I've gone through a lot of w/d during this process. A LOT of w/d. It's been a really rough road.

I'm so sorry you are facing being locked up. Yikes....good thing you are getting off the Sub now. I can't imagine having to stop any serious drug habit while in jail, especially opiates. My friend's husband just got locked up (which is a good thing, cause he's a jerk) but he has a horrendous Oxy problem and he's in there right now....kicking....no Sub....no help of any sort. Sounds like a nightmare to me. I hope you get out earlier than you expect. You must be scared. At least, I would be. Thank God it's not a long sentence, KWIM? I really wish you the best, and just remember that if you get sick, it IS better to be sick at home than being sick while in jail. I don't think it will be all that bad for you. You haven't been on Sub that long.

laddertipper


Thank you laddertipper. Your posts along with everyone else's have helped me get through this. Luckily I will only be going to county jail or George Bailey since it wasn't a felony, but it's not going to be fun. Hopefully they will let me out before my 80 days is up, but I'd rather go through my jump-off in the comfort of a home with television and a bed than do it behind the wall. Kicking Oxys in jail... DOES sound like a nightmare. I'm not that scared, because I'm in good shape and can kick ass, but it's definitely a depressing thought, mostly because of the water. Yes, water. That is the biggest problem I have with doing time (I've done 6 days before). The jail water is NASTY, no one drinks out of those sinks because of the nasty stuff that people to do them and in them. So all I get is 3 little juice boxes per day, and I get really dehydrated :( Everything else I can pretty much tolerate. But thank you again for the advice! I will post again tomorrow or the day after when I'm on my last .5 mg per day. And then of course after stopping completely--- hopefully it will help people who are just starting the stuff or in my stage of taking it. I am so glad I found this forum-- what bothers me the most is I did a search for "Suboxone detox" and stuff like that, and this website was on like the second page, all the way at the bottom! It should be the #1 hit when people are looking for a place to talk about Suboxone/Subutex. Oh well.


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 Post subject: Water
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:24 pm 
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What you said about the water is MESSED UP!!! OMG....so, you cannot, IDK, bleach the hell out of the sink or something? :lol: I don't even want to imagine all the stuff people do TO and IN the sink. YUCK!! Can someone send you bottled water? Surviving on three juice boxes a day is dangerous for your kidneys. I never heard this about jail. I cannot imagine that Paris Hilton drank nasty water from a nasty sink. Her dad must have sent her a huge care pack of water bottles.

I'm looking forward to reading your updates!!

laddertipper

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 Post subject: Re: Water
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:46 pm 
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laddertipper wrote:
What you said about the water is MESSED UP!!! OMG....so, you cannot, IDK, bleach the hell out of the sink or something? :lol: I don't even want to imagine all the stuff people do TO and IN the sink. YUCK!! Can someone send you bottled water? Surviving on three juice boxes a day is dangerous for your kidneys. I never heard this about jail. I cannot imagine that Paris Hilton drank nasty water from a nasty sink. Her dad must have sent her a huge care pack of water bottles.

I'm looking forward to reading your updates!!

laddertipper


LOL, I'm pretty sure Paris Hilton got fresh water and a mattress and a pillow. Most normal people don't get that. Hell, Lindsay Lohan was allowed to stay on Ritalin (synthetic speed) and Dilaudid (an incredibly powerful opiate) while she was in jail... NOBODY gets that luxury except celebrities :)


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 Post subject: Another day
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:36 am 
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Well everyone today I am down to 0.5 mg. All I can say is I am experiencing no sharp physical w/d
symptoms at all. Mainly, it's just depression. That feeling that everything is just "wrong" and that I'm
never going to be normal. I would trade places with just about anyone on the planet (aside from another
addict) because they all seem happy and normal.

I only slept like 6 hours last night, also, as opposed to the usual 10 hour Suboxone hibernation that I
was experiencing every night.

Probably won't post again for a couple days (until my first couples days completely off it).


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 Post subject: Yuck
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:57 pm 
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Sorry you feel bad in the head. Sometimes that's worse than the physical stuff.

I really recommend you don't watch depressing stuff on tv or sad movies. You'll turn into a big, bawling pile of mush.

You will absolutely feel better. This is not the way things are going to be!! It's temporary. Temporary is doable, right? Try to go outside a little if you can (if it's not too cold). Even if you can just sit in the sun (if you are lucky enough to have sun), it feels good to be outside. Of course, if you can exercise, it will help enormously. I never feel the w/d when I'm doing something physical enough. It's starting physical activity that's hard. Just do the best you can. And try to post if you can too, especially if you are feeling really hopeless, because there are certainly people on here who have been there and have gotten to the other side. Remember that there is another side!!

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:20 am 
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Hey Matt,

Sorry I came late to your 'party', but better late than never, eh! :D

I just wanted to throw one in there for ya about the "feeling that everything is just "wrong" and that I'm
never going to be normal" thing you said.....yeah, I remember those shitty thoughts well!! But you know what, we get better!! It's going to take some time and honestly, I'm not sure if you're through the worst of your wd yet, but it eventually gets better. I remember when I was in wd and people would tell me "it'll get better", for some reason I had the uncontrollable urge to drop kick those SOB's through a window because I had somehow convinced myself that I wouldn't get better. BUT I'M HERE TO TELL YOU IT WILL EVENTUALLY GET BETTER.

You hang tough and remember that other's have gotten off Suboxone and YOU can too.

BTW, if you decide to drop kick me through a window, I'll just come right back in the house and keep telling you that you can do this and that you'll feel better....although, if it were up to me, I'd just as soon do away with the drop kicking me anywhere....just my preference! :D


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 Post subject: Heh.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:10 pm 
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Well thanks again everyone. I was emotional as hell yesterday again, sat around watching Crazy Heart, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, anything to take my mind off myself.

I only slept about 3 hours, and then I woke up around 4am and took my LAST crumb (0.5mg). And slept another 5 hours. I'm lucky to not have any physical symptoms, but the emotions are _hell_. Anyways, you're right, my real w/d hasn't even started yet, because I still have some bupe in my system of course. I probably won't sleep well for the next 3-4 days and I'm NOT looking forward to it. But you're right (guy with the beavis avatar), it WILL get better, and I know that because I've detoxed before. I just can't, for the life of me, figure out why I have kept going BACK to opiates after 2-4 months of sobriety at a time when I know the hell that I'm in for when I stop. Of course that is the nature of addiction.

Hopefully this will be my last opiate/opiod detox EVER. It's good to have someplace to come though where people have been through the same thing.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:49 pm 
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Man, I am pulling for you!!!! I hate hearing about other people suffering and not being able to tell them what to do to stop it. It's gonna be rough, but it won't be horribly long because you haven't been on it that long. I know time is gonna slow down on you and you're going to go to dark places. Keep posting and do whatever you can to distract yourself. And even if you are not sleeping, at least try to lay down and rest. I've battled insomnia since I was a kid, and I sort of forgot about it, because Suboxone made me into an absolutely fantastic sleeper. Now, that's all changing. It's amazing how little we can sleep and we are okay. Try not to be too afraid of the symptoms. I know they're scary, but remember. It's all a trick your body is putting together to get you to cave and take opiates. Don't fall for it!!

laddertipper

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 Post subject: Update
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:08 pm 
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Well, I went ahead and filled four more 2mg Suboxones. Why? Because I felt like I was in a really dangerous place,
like I was going to just get on a plane and go back to my dealer's house. It -really- SEEMED like a good idea for me
to switch from Subs back to full opiates for a while!! My brain was telling me "well you can just go back to some
Norcos/Oxys/Tar for a while, to deal with the Sub w/d's, because the Sub kick will take forever". And that was
obviously insanity. Plus I was sleeping like SHIT and getting major depression, and I don't want to just loaf around
like a pile of garbage all day.

SO... I cut EACH 2mg pill into FOUR pieces, making them 0.5mg doses. And I am trying to just take the ONE 0.5mg
crumb every morning and have that be my only dose for the day. So far, so good! The only time I cheated and
took an extra 0.5mg was two nights ago when I only got 3 hours of sleep and woke up feeling crazy and panicky
at 4am. So.. within the past 5 days I've taken about 3.5mg (roughly). This is amazing to me still since just over
a week ago I was at 8-10mg/day. It can be done folks. It's just the fast harsh taper was a little too much for me.

Now I'm taking everyone's advice and I just have these little half-mg (or less) crumbs that I take once a day, or
maybe an extra one every other day if I feel like I just can't sleep at all.

Hopefully I will jump off completely before I go to jail but if not, at least I will be down to this really low dose.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:19 pm 
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You were smart to get the sub rather than risk a relapse - that's just way too dangerous. You are determined, that's obvious to me and you can do this. Thanks for the update. Keep up the good work. :)

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 Post subject: :)
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:22 pm 
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Thanks, hatmaker. :) You're right after all, it is sometimes a good idea to stay on the Suboxone for a bit longer than planned. But I am taking as small of a dose as possible.

I'm just proud of myself that I only filled 4 pills-- it would've been easy to get a full bottle again and go back to 8mg/day, but I want to beat this thing!!

Thanks again everyone for the support. It means a lot more than you know.


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