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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:10 pm 
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Hello,
My name is matt, i am an addict (obviously) and have been for quite some time. i recently, about 11 months ago gave up a year clean. Anyway, i USED to be doing 5 or 6 oxy 80s a day and kicked (like 5 years ago) and went onto suboxone, 8mg used to hold me over and i stayed on maintenance until i got locked up, then came out and my DR wouldnt take me back so i went back to pills. Lost my connect, started sniffing dope, then shooting. You know, progression. Anyway, got clean AGAIN, this time nothing less than 12mg would hold me at first, then slowly i could go back down to 8mg. Anyway, this past run i was doing more shit than imagineable. I live in newark nj, the purest diesel in the nation, and i still manage to do 35 bags a day, IV. 7 bags a shot. Over dosed 6 times in 4 months. Scared, tired, depressed.
Anyway, 6 months ago went onto the meth clinic and got up to 130mg. Stayed on it for 3 months. Stopped going, started doing dope again because i tried to switch to subs but you know how the meth withdrawal is, diddnt work, i figured it use the D to push the meth out of my system.

So now, yesterday morning i did ym last dope (8 bag shot), been doing dope for 3 months straight, watited 24 hours of PAIN, VOMITING, LEGS ALL THAT and took 8mg sub. Nothing. Took another 8mg an hour later, SOME relief.

Afraid to take more, dont wanna over do it and precipitate withdraw or anything.

My fears:

Is sub gonna still work for me? I know i pushed it too many times, and i never met any living soul with a habbit like mine.

Did the methadone i stayed on for 3 months (from 6 months ago til 3 ago) do something to me that subs cannot replace anymore?

Look, i have no more rusn in me, this next bag of dope will probably kill me for all i know, i really need this, let alone want.

please, somebody with knowledge on this please help !


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:51 pm 
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Hey - I'm at work so I don't have a lot of time to post but I wanted to let you know that I'd read your post & I really feel for you, you're in a tough place.

I think that your tolerance might just be too high right now for Suboxone to make you feel well. Buprenorphine's opiate effect maxes out at around the equivalent of 30mgs of methadone, which is why they have people taper their methadone dose so low before they can switch over to Suboxone. At the level of heroin you've been doing, Suboxone is likely not going to be strong enough to take away all your withdrawal symptoms and cravings.

We have had other people on the forum who stuck it out for a while in your situation and eventually their tolerance came down to the point that they did ok on Suboxone. You'll also need to have other parts of your recovery program up and working to get through this - meetings, therapy, or whatever else you chose to do to get yourself well - Sub is only a small part of that.

I gotta go, hopefully some others will post here too. Hang in there.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:09 pm 
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First off I think Diary is right and that because of how high your tolerance is you would still likely experience some withdrawal symptoms the next couple days if you stay on Suboxone. Now the withdrawal will obviously be less severe than if you were to have gone cold turkey but there are several people I've talked to who were able to keep taking Suboxone and eventually felt "normal" taking Suboxone alone even though they were taking greater than 30mg of methadone prior to going on Suboxone which is approx the opiate equivalent of 2-4mg of Suboxone (buprenorphine) ceiling. So it would be an option to stay on Suboxone and eventually you would start feeling alot better but it's all up to you. Methadone seems to work well for a few people I know that take it but again that's your own option to make if you're hoping to quit using opiate recreationally. I'm kind of curious though is there a certain reason you stopped taking methadone? I mean was it causing problems for you or were you just tired of it? Because, at least in my humble opinion it would seem that methadone maintenance would be the best option if I were in your situation and then over time you could even think about tapering down low enough to switch to Suboxone (buprenorphine) maintenance but again that's all up to you. Hope things work out for you and I hope my response has at least been a little helpful :)

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 Post subject: ehhh, methadone
PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:21 pm 
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Wow, thanks for the quick responses guys!
I am feeling some relief, definitely is better than cold turkey. But i still feel the brunt of withdrawals. My question was if i stick with it, will that go away and i will feel better on subs?

I stopped methadone because it was causing alot of issues. A, i work two jobs and getting to the clinic was nearly impossible, and B i take klonopin and my clinic was threatening to taper me due to benzo policy. Also, i dont want to end up like the methadone 'lifers' wiht thier little lock boxes and walkers, still coming in at 70 years old, honestly, i feel active addiction is better than that. No, i mis stated that. I feel that that IS still active addiction. Don't get me wrong, some people do need methadone maintenance, but alot of people get stuck on it and can never stop, or maybe they dont have teh stregnth or willpower to make the determination that they are sick of it. Subs have worked for me in the past, so well. I have alot of recovery in my blood, its not my first time around. I helped alot of people, now i need to help myself. I have alot of the knowledge (NA, etc) its just time to actually do it and not just think or say it!

Im just scared, man, i can't take this shit anymore.

My life as now is as this.
I work two jobs, about 70 hours a week. I live in a homeless shelter (all of my money goes to drugs). So i get two paychecks a week and see virtually none of it, aside from my habbit. And by the end of the week i need to borrow money from my boss to get my brick (thats what we call 5 bundles in jersey) to get me through the day. The ammount of money i spend is ludacris, i make over 800 a week on a bad week and i cannot hold onto it, in fact, im broke right now, and i just got paid on monday!
I have to wake up at 5am in the shelter, and geet off work usually at 11 with an hour travel time so after showering and all, i get 4 hours sleep. I have to wake up early and run to this one spot, which is the only area with dope at 6 am in the morning. Get my shit, do it, pray i dont get arrested coming out of the projects, get to work, leave job A go back to get shit, this time i go to my preffered spot that doesnt 'open' until 10am or so, do it, go to job 2, get break in 4 hours and go back AGAIN (no lie) for my after work shot, my get home shot and my bed time shot. I usually do this (running back and forth) to avoid buying a large quantity of beat shit, except for the end of the week, when i usually buy a brick all at once when i borrow money from my boss.

Do you see this insanity? I have heard others say they are sick and tired etc, i literally am so tired, have so little energy, i get high at 2 am go to sleep and wake up at 5am sick every night.

Subs is what i need to get me leveled, then i can go to meetings and all, which i am going to one right after i get off work tonight. I just hope they work this time, im scared. I cant live like this any more.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:25 pm 
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Hi Shamrock and welcome to the forum. I think it's great you made the decision to go back on suboxone, but I'm sorry you're having trouble. It does sound like the previous posters are right and that your tolerance is really high. How much suboxone (mg) have you taken and how much are you prescribed? It sounds like from your most recent post that you're beginning to feel better. I'm happy to hear that.

I wish I had more to offer you, but at the very least I wanted to welcome you and show my support. Hang in there - you can do this!

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 8:04 pm 
Hi Matt, welcome to the forum. You said that you were in pretty bad withdrawal when you started sub and after the 2nd 8mg dose you got some relief. So I believe you are not in danger of PW's at this point. I don't know how much sub you are prescribed, but the max dose is 32mg/day. With a habit like yours you may need a high dose of sub - but only a doctor can help you decide that. Overall it sounds like you are headed in the right direction. If you can tough it our for the next few days and let your body adjust to the bupe binding to your opiate receptors I think you will stabilize and begin feeling much better.

You're right that the next run could kill you (i guess that's true for all of us). So I hope you can find your recovery with the help of suboxone. This forum offers a lot of support, so keep posting - it really helps. Hopefully just the relief of not having to go out and buy that next brick will give you the incentive to stick it out even if the subs aren't covering 100% of your withdrawals right now. I wish you the best of luck.
Lilly


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