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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:41 pm 
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Hello,
I'm new to this forum. I have seen a lot of forums,yet none seem as professional and helpful as this one. So I decided to finally join.

OK, so my whole life is all about suboxone. Pathetic, I know! However, I've been in treatment for going on 5 years now. In those 5 those 5 years suboxone has had a tremendous impact on my life, friends and loved ones. To be perfectly honest, Suboxone has had a tremendous impact on my WHOLE town. From Druggies who seem to have no intention on getting they're lives back into order or drug addicts who would like nothing more than to do just that. Having personally known people from both sides of those particular tracks over the years, I'd like to think my knowledge as a suboxone user is quite substantial! Another sad fact that is becoming abundantly clear to me is the possibility that I likely know even more about this drug than those in or around my area who PRESCRIBE IT!!!
Believe me, I'm not being bold in stating that opinion nor do I have any pride in saying so. In fact, this truth is torturous in my particular situation. As I know when I'm being lied to by a doctor, I know when a doctor is attempting to mislead me out of his own pure ignorance. And most of all, I know when a doctor simply is not fit to be treating anyone for addiction and is likely just trying to fill his pockets... By now I'm sure some of you are thinking I'm just a arrogant "know it all".. The fact is that couldn't be further from the truth. I am utterly tired of everything suboxone related, And therefore am getting tired of life in general. I'm a big hearted, hardworking and loving husband and father. Yet at the same time I'm ashamed of my shortcomings as all of the above..
I'm 26 and should be twice as far in life as I am now. And 10 times as far in life as I was when I started treatment and left all of the oxycontin,fetynal, percocet,vicodin etc behind, 5 years ago! Sure I've came a long ways since those days. But forgive me for feeling as though I should be a lot further after 5 years of treatment. This is my problem. And I appoligize for the length of this post. I just want to be thorough.

I began treatment about 5 years ago with Subutex. Prescribed to my by a Dr.Radecki.The guy was a crackpot to say the least. Not the most professional "Doctor" Ive came across. Yet all the same, I was in awe at the effects this medication Immediately had on my life as a whole! I wasent high yet I was high on life again! After years of living in the darkest places mentally and pysichally. It was GODSEND! And all it took was 10 minutes a month in a room with a guy in His barefeet, seated Indian style at his laptop that was placed on a cardboard box on the floor. Not to mention the $225 visit fee and roughly $250 that I was charged for the medication itself. Which at times was supplied by himself. Anyways, all enthusiasm about every day life was restored to me and I was able to achieve things I previously had no interest or confidence required to achieve before. And life was quickly coming together.
I later received health insurance and was next in line for a doctor in my town. "5 minutes away rather than an hour away" Naturally I jumped at the opportunity and left Radecki to see a Dr. Tootell. He seemed much more professional, much younger and seemed to care more for his patients. "In other words" my monthly visits with him didn't seem as much like a glorified visit to a crackhouse to obtain my fix. Tootell Immediately switched me to suboxone and assured that they where in fact that same as Subutex. They where octogon shaped orange tablets that tasted disgusting to say the least. I remember it taking some time to to adjust to this medication as well as thinking to myself that "this is not at all like Subutex" however I wasent sent into Severe withdrawal, I just had headaches and that swooshy yucky feeling throughout the day. I believed that was cause by the reminder of the taste alone. Regardless, I Was now receiving both treatment and medication at a total of $3 a month rather than $475-$500. This lasted a Up until 2012 and things where good for the most part. Still had headaches every day but whatever. Suddenly Tootell began warning me that He'd have to switch me to a new form of suboxone in a film form. He once again assured me that this film was overall the same. I had no choice so I took on the change with a positive attitude. But quickly realized once again that the change was for the worse. The once mild headaches I tolerated with the tablets became severe headaches that I suffered from the films. I pleaded with him to switch me to what I previously began treatment with "Subutex" he began telling me that Subutex had essentially been outlawed and are no longer legal to be prescribed by doctors. Even though I had numerous friends at the time who where prescribed Subutex by my previous doctor. Dr.Radecki. Some of them selling the Subutex, some of them doing the right thing. So it had seemed Subutex has been discovered by the rest of the town and became a popular way to get high. Baffling to me as I have never been high by either Subutex or Suboxone. I just assumed everybody was getting the same quality of relief from the crippling effects of opiate addiction and it wasent a matter of getting high.
And here I am stuck on these horrible Films that where terrible in every way imaginable. I justified that with the fact that "at least I'm not so sick I can't get out of bed, or out running the streets doing what I use to do for an oxy or a fet patch" And it wasent long after this that I started having to fight tooth and nail to keep my health coverage. Desperately filing appeals and quitting jobs to maintain eligibility for coverage. To no avail I ended up losing it and began paying for the films out of pocket.I remember they where $7.50 per film at the time. And I barely managed. All while my debt for Dr.Tootell piled up more and more, month by month. Until the 8th month when he "understandably" had to remove me from the program. I had no way of catching up with the debt from the doctors visits due to the $500 I was already spending on these damn films.Not to mention I was on my own paying bills.
I panicked, I resorted to buying Subutex off the streets and while being able to take those again was nice. I was quickly regressing back to my old drug addicted behavior. Fighting, stealing,ripping people and even friends off. Just for another days dose. It was chaotic to say the least! I realized then I had only accomplished trading one addiction for another after all that time. Regardless of that being the case I had to do something!!! I learned that Good ol' Dr. Radecki had expanded his business with 3 additional locations, compliments of his success no doubt. Hoping from one location to the next throughout the week. I quickly got back in with him in his newest office about two towns away. Same story with him. No shoes, no desk, no chair. Just a pen and a pad and a box full of unused disposable urine tests. He welcomed me or rather my money back, write me a script and I was on my way. Just like that, my headaches disappeared and I was happy again. Began working on my career in healthcare as a In home health Aide. Which later landed me a job as a residential cooridinator at a respectable nursing home outside of town. I met a girl and was about to be a father for the first time. Everything was peachy.
And just like I had always expected deep down, BAM! It all came crashing down when one day I showed up for my appointment and Radeckis office was apperantly empty and ransacked. Myself along with 5 others there for they're aplointments entered the building in confusion. Nothing was left. Nothing was ever really there to begtherein with. But we found a notice of seizure left behind by the authorities and quickly realized he had been shut down and arrested. Leaving what turned out to being a few hundred of his patients and myself on our own in the middle of treatment! Instantly all the doctors within a 50 mile radius where all filled up as a result of the hundreds of people neglected by Radecki and his 3 facilities. Life was bad. It put tremendous strain on my relationship with my fiance. A relationship that at one time seemed invinsibally happy!
Back to the streets I went to get by, day by day. And although I had been in treatment at this point for going on 4 years, Yet it felt like It never really began.And that I had just been wasting time and money all this time. Lots of Money and time!!
After a few months I found a doctor who took me in. A Facility anyway. Where my particular Doctor only comes in on Fridays. He does things by the books without a single ounce of compassion. Not even eye contact. He will ask me the same old questions as if read straight from a book. Not even acknowledging you're answers. And at times rubbing my face in that fact by making statements proving that he doesent hear a thing you're saying. The secretary's are worse. Extremely Rude and critical towards us patients. Just rushing people along. No schedule, no real routine. The place is commonly packed and though you're scheduled at a specific time, it is rare to be seen within 2 hours of arrival. Due to the evident over scheduling of patients. All so they can make as much money in a day as possible. As if Suboxone is going somewhere any time soon.
He started me out with 24 mg of suboxone film. The terrible headaches came back and I was once again spending all of my money for minimal improvements. After a couple visits I was even able to get him to switch me to Subutex "generic bupe" and that lasted all of 2 whole months. Another small taste of what life can be like. Keep in mindmind at this point " suboxone fiLM costs just over $10 each and I was paying $2.75 per generic Subutex" that was 5 months ago.
Anyways, he took me off the Subutex abruptly after 2 months of giving it to me. Feeding me lies, saying that Subutex is outlawed. The next month I told him That I researched it, called pharmacy's etc. And nobody else claims they have been banned. Just that most doctors refuse to prescribe them. He then stated that doctors are not banned from prescribing, pharmacies are banned from filling them. Then proceeded to give me Zubsolv. Claimed they would be just as cheap and just the same as Subutex.. By this time I wasent at all shocked to find out that they where even worse than the films. And only tasted better slightly. And they still where over $8 each. Plus I ciukdent even use a discount card like I could with films. The next month I continued to confront his lies and told him that every pharmacy I called claims to still fill prescriptions for Subutex. And That his Zubsolv are even worse than film and that I'd at least like the films back. Ever since then he is very short with me and his secretary hag's are even more rude. They even once sent me a letter letting me know that I have been terminate . From the program for using opiates from the emergency room while taking suboxone. Enraged, I called them right up and was told the letter was referring to my past statement that I "FELT" like going to the ER for some vicodin to get rid of the headaches the film and zubsolvs are causing. They took me back without an argument. And for me it is either withdrawals or suboxone. Oh ya, I found out then that this doctor is actually one of Radeckis associates that he hired to expand his business in the past before they got shut down. Im still seeing this jerk and still paying over $600 for my script of film alone! I still have headaches and Life isnt near where it could be.Where It should be. I don't deserve this. I just want what's best for me. I understand Subutex can be injected. I've personally seen people inject suboxone film. Sick people who have given up faith in suboxone. There is nothing you can do with Subutex that you can't do with suboxone. Anybody who has been there knows this. To this day people who don't deserve it are being prescribed by the insanely few docotors still willing to prescribe it. People who just sell them anyways. I have no intention in selling any kind of drug. Let alone the one I need. I've spoke with doctors 5 hours or more away who don't understand why I'd resort to traveling such long distances. Doctors who will not see me because they feel if I made this case with any doctor in my area that I would be switched to the cheaper generic Subutex.. Its tiring. And I'm wasted so much time and money. On something that gives me headaches and costs a fortune. While being tossed around between doctors who only care about the money involved and not the innocent lives. My life..
I live in NorthEastern Pennsylvania. Can anybody help me???

For anybody around here. The name of the BS facility that treats me now is Called
Addictions Treatment and is in Clarion PA.. Don't waste you're money on these jerks if you don't have to. 10-1 whoever you're seeing now is likely better than these people.
Thankyou if you took the time to read this.
God Bless


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:59 pm 
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BTW I'm from Northwestern PA. Not eastern. Also, I'm sorry for the poor punctuation and mid spelling. My phones keyboard is too small for my thumbs haha!


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:06 pm 
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Please see my answer to the post 'switching to Suboxone treatment' a bit higher in the index page.

Some states have, indeed, banned plain buprenorphine. Many other states haven't yet banned it, but have a great deal of ignorance among pharmacists and doctors. I ask new patients frequently how they use, what they use, and what they get from buprenorphine. I hear about injecting it to make it last four times as long-- injecting 2 mg per day instead of taking 8 mg sublingual each day. That is consistent with the chemistry, since only 25% gets absorbed sublingually...

but NOBODY has told me about a way to get HIGH from buprenorphine. Yes, they can end their withdrawal about 20 minutes faster by injecting... but the same ceiling effect applies, and prevents getting 'high'-- with or without naloxone. If a person used heroin or oxycodone recently, injecting buprenorphine causes severe withdrawal-- NOT a good time.

I've tried to educate people to this fact-- but unfortunately most doc won't even listen to the discussion. I don't have advice for you-- since I don't even know how to prevent the ignorance in MY area. But you are correct; many people get headaches from Suboxone flim. You could try Bunavail, as that has the lowest amount of 'filler' molecules, and a higher bioavailability of buprenorphine... but it costs in the same range as Suboxone.

Good Luck!


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 1:47 am 
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Sorry I can't scroll up and get your name after I post reply. Please mods, can you fix that somehow?
I know where you are coming from. I have lost 2 facilities due to being shut down. 1 treatment center in Ironton Ohio got raided and that sent 1200 addicts to the street instantly. And of course the drug busts started happening because they just followed people to the neighborhood drug dealers. What a thing to do to a bunch of addicts that were there to get treatment. It was basically greed. They were double charging insurance companies and Medicaid and they got caught.
Anyways, I have a suggestion about your headaches. Bupe is absorbed in the lining of your mucus membranes and the Naloxone is absorbed in the stomach.
I used to get headaches like you until I stopped swallowing the residue that was left over and my headaches instantly stopped. Why don't you at least give that a try and see if it will help. I also mix Suboxone strips (3 8mgs)very small amount (1ml) of Mint Listerine in a syringe and take drops in my mouth and the alcohol in the Listerine(20%) increases the absorption of the Bupe leaving the naloxone in the Listerine(alcohol doesn't break the Naloxone down) so you can just spit it out after 10 or 15 mins and no headache! If you want to know more about this method, just PM me!
Hell, give it a try. You got nothing to lose. I have been doing it this way for 6 months (no headaches)and wouldn't go back to sticking a strip in my mouth. For me, this is way better. I don't know why more people don't use Suboxone this way.
I did read your whole post! lol
Good luck
Happy


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 3:44 am 
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I have tried several ways of taking the film. Except Injecting it! Thank god!And though I've read about similar methods, I've never tried it. Always seemed strange to me to spit it out.But I will try this tomorrow. Thankyou for the suggestion. Its just a shame, I can't help but think all of these unfortunate changes have been made out of pure ignorance by those who have little to no hands on experience. There will always ALWAYS be people who will find a way to abuse whatever it is that they come up with. Why punish those who don't have those intentions? Ever since this has all started they have been steady changing the drug in a attempt to best those who abuse itin. With absolute no regard for those who want to use it to help them move on to a better life. What is it? Spite? Idk but it sure seems like it.
All I know is that with every change they have made with suboxone, treatment in general has become more and more inconvenient And less effective. To the point where I am still after all this time feeling the need for 2 films a day.
Not to mention Its killing me financially. The price for them at the pharmacy isnt too far off from street prices at this point. I'm spending close to $800/monthly. For a medication that gives me discomfort with headaches. Haha its got to end at some point. I've pretty much given up on the hope of finding a halfway decent human being as a doctor who will do right by me and give me the generic bupe, so that I can enjoy my life more and while saving tons of money.
I know they are out there. I know 5 people who go somewhere for it. Of course nobody shares that kind of information around here because once one person knows, the entire town will be calling trying to get in. Its all just depressing. I use to be angry and now I'm just tired of it all. Thank you both for you're replies. I will be sure to try you're method!


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 1:28 pm 
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I know you have probably tried splitting your doses up into smaller amounts and taking it every few hrs. You should be able to get down to 6 or 8 mgs. 16mgs is quite a lot of Sub. I take between 4 and 6mgs a day with how I take it. You will have to experiment a little bit to get the exact dose this way. It is stronger because it absorbs better and faster.
You can drop it on a Qtip and paint your mouth with it this way really easy. Some people salivate a lot so I make a paste basically out of it. I get about 5 or 6 days out of mixing 3 8mg strips this way. I went back to the regular way and I ended up taking a whole strip per day and when I went back to this way, the next day I started the constipation thing, so I know I am getting a lot more medicine this way. How much for sure, I don't know, but the companies say up to 70% absorption with using alcohol as a base solution instead of around 25% absorption with just putting the strip in your mouth. So you should be able to even save money this way.
Good luck
Happy


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